Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[for_his_glory]

Failure to understand the complexities are mandated by the scriptures.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

When you study your own darkness you might be amazed at how much MORE you will be shown by the Spirit of Truth.

Who studies their own darkness as that makes no sense to me. Does not studying increase knowledge as the word of God through the Holy Spirit bring light to what is being taught us?

One verse does not make the whole of understanding. 1Corinthians Chapter 13 is speaking about charity as it is showing the difference between giving just because you should verses giving from the heart. The perfect that has come is Christ who has taught us what true love from the heart is as before we only saw it like looking through a dark glass, other words we really did not know what unconditional love was until the light of Christ shined in us first. Now we have faith, hope and charity (love) and the greatest is charity (love). A child can only understand with a child's mind, but then they grow into maturity having more understanding that increases their knowledge.

 

[for_his_glory]

Douglas Summers,

First I want to make it clear that there is a time of being caught up to Jesus or as man calls it Raptured up. Jesus told us many times in scripture it will not be until the last day as the Church being the body of Christ and not four walls will endure much as we will come out of great tribulations and those who endure until the end or the last day will be saved. Rev Chapter 4 has nothing to do with us being Rapture up to Jesus, but only John being shown in a vision the throne of God.

These pretrib theories started with Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland who first told others of a vision she had in 1830. She admitted the vision seemed evil and dark, but many preachers of that time ran with it and eventually was handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something. There were no Pretrb teachings prior to the 1800's.

The Church, which represents the bride of Christ, will face seeing much tribulation as it will be hard to bare seeing Gods wrath on the unjust as we are sent out to preach to them before we enter into the Kingdom of God. There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before “The Great Tribulation”, but there is no scripture that speaks of “The Great Tribulation”. Matthew 24:24 says For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

These scriptures below show that the Church being the body of Christ who are still alive at this time is seen throughout Revelations:

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is showing us to look for the signs of his coming

Rev 5:13; 6:16,17 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were and we are in the midst of the seven seals right now heading towards the seven trumpets

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation; fulfillment of the gentiles

Rev 8:13 Three woes are war, earthquakes, and meteors

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about the beast out of the sea that gives power to the beast out of the earth as we are warned to not take its mark

Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. If Christ returns in pretrib rapture then at that time the door of Salvation will be closed.

Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation as mystery Babylon has been described and destroyed as we have not yet been caught up to be with the Lord until the last day.

Rev 19:7,8 We have made ourselves ready by enduring great tribulations, even to death; we had to go through before the end of days

Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured all things before the coming of the Lord.

Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth when the books are opened

First woe
First trumpet Rev 8:6-7
Second trumpet Rev 8:8,9
Third trumpet Rev 8:10,11
Fourth trumpet Rev 8:12,13
Fifth trumpet Rev 9:1-12
Second woe
Sixth trumpet Rev 9:13 through 11:14
Third woe
Seventh trumpet Rev 11:15 through Rev 16:21 (seventh trumpet includes the seven vial judgments)

 

[for_his_glory]

The falling away as you think you see it is not as you depict.

The falling away of sin and the demonic impetus behind it is required in order for Christ to bring about this change.

And the result is this:

Philippians 3:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Our bodies are vile because evil is present with us (Romans 7:21), our flesh is contrary to and against the Spirit (Gal. 5:17) and our sin is demonic (1 John 3:8).

In other words it is the falling away of DEMONS influences from believers flesh. This same separation is shown in Matt. 25's separation of sheep from goats. There are only 2 parties dealt with in that account. Man and devils. These are separated, one from another. This same ACTIVITY is what Jesus engaged in on earth prior. Accept there is a GREATER PROMISE of this as a finality at the conclusion of this present EVIL AGE.

Not only the above, but believers can not even believe the scriptures because the devils influences over their flesh will not allow that to transpire. They will instead JUSTIFY the devil and their sins, cover them up, claim they aren't sinners, don't have evil present with them, etc etc. All done by that demonic influence in their own flesh. And this draws the believers deeply into hypocrisy and lies, divisions, strifes, on and on it goes. Which is right where the devil LOVES to take believers. All in some vain quest to get believers to think they are SINLESS or can attain such a state on their own apart from the power of God in Christ Himself.

And all of that is why the DEVILS must fall away first. They can not be saved.

2Thessalonians 2:1-12 is speaking about the falling away from truth, not sin, as compared to the two beast and its mark in Rev 13 that causes this falling away from truth as many will believe the lies of Satan. Here are the clues in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

 

[for_his_glory]

The deception of the churches happened a long long time ago. Prophesied by Paul in Acts. Pay particularly close attention to the "of your own selves" portion.

Acts 20:
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.



The anti-Christ is a wicked spirit (many actually.)

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Agreed.

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2Thessalonians 4: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

The last time means the last antichrist who is the son of perdition being the last false prophet who is the beast out of the earth in Rev Chapter 13 that will cause a great falling away from God's truth.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Go ahead and show us where the coming of the Lord is a description of two events here in what Paul writes and teaches.

I explained that in post #1215 What do you think the meeting in the air is? Christ is not saving the people of the earth at this time, He is only calling out His body, "The Church". And when it is completed, called the "fullness of the Gentiles" That is His kingdom of Priest and Kings. They are the Son's of God who will rule with Christ. That is the first part of the first resurrection, it is not a resurrection of Judgment. The first resurrection is Christ gathering a people of His own, a people of His name...........THEN he will will RETURN and build again the tabernacle of David which is fallen down and will set it up to the nations on whom his name is called (the worship of The Lord). Like the Levitical tribe of Israel was the only tribe that were responsible for the priest to serve God and the People, but not everyone from that tribe were priest, but they served the Lord day and night and were responsible for the temple and care of the Holy things in the temple. So it is with the Church (a people of His name) and those who are translated after the "Taking away of the Church". but the falling away by false doctrine and idol worship had already begun at that time in Church history and has reached it's zenith long ago.
1 Thessalonians Chapters 1 & 2 reaffirm the persecution of the Church at that time.
This is a study of 1 & 2 Thessalonians, Acts Chapter 15, Revelation Chapter 7. BTW, the dead in Christ in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 are those who of the Church had passed away before the Lord's meeting in the air and calling out of His body. The living shall not precede the dead in Christ, But we together (dead and living) at the same time will meet the Lord in the air.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus makes that abundantly clear in Rev. 2-3. The works of Satan were in them all. All have sin, sin is of the devil. Members won't hear of it and the reason they won't is that we ALL, me included, do have spiritual adversaries who do perform quite effectively the roles they play.



I believe Jesus was accurate, but people really don't care to hear of it.

Rev 2:3 says nothing of the kind. Have you ever heard the saying one can be to earthy minded that they are no heavenly good? Jesus knew their good works and patience, but they were getting to involved with self works instead of the first works which are Christ's that works through them. The Nicolaitans were famous for their acts of self worship and idol worshiping as they were a Gentile sect that converted to Judaism to dominate others. Jesus also gave warning to the Church of Pergamos who were doing the same thing.

 

[for_his_glory]

It is two events JLB. Paul goes from the Philippians to Thessalonica to the Jewish synagogue (even though Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, He always preached to the Jew First wherever he traveled, Always!). Paul preached for three Sabbaths and many Jews believed the Gospel and that Jesus was the Messiah and His called out ones were as His body. They would suffer persecution from the Jewish religious leaders, but the unbelieving Jew was to be tested (at another time) during that time when the whole world would be tested (go through tribulation that the world has never seen)and a time when a multitude (more than anyone can count) will be saved (saved from what?) From Almighty God's judgment on those who persecuted the Jew. The whole purpose Israel goes through a great tribulation tribulation (Matt. 24:21) is to show that Jesus IS the Messiah, as He destroys all the Gentile nations that persecuted Israel and to fulfill the warnings to Israel if they did not repent) . There are 7 judgments in the Scriptures. Two of them are the Judgment of the nations for their treatment of Israel. Another is the Judgment of unbelieving Jew's. The other 5 judgments are: our sins, judgment of death by Christ, life for the believer, The judgment of self, avoiding chastisement from God as a son, The judgment of our responsibilities of our gifts and how we used them, when we meet Christ at the calling out of the Church from this age, The Great white Throne Judgement of nominal Christians and self righteous (called the second death) and the Judgment of Angels (of which the Church will preside in.

After the believing Jew's at Thessalonica had converted and regenerated and met together, the unbelieving Jew's began to persecute The believing Jews, Who thought they had been left behind and Christ had taken out His Body as they had been taught by Paul. And that is what Paul is addressing to the Jewish Christians who thought they were rejected and were going through a great tribulation. The persecution was so bad that Paul and Silas had to be taken out of the City by nightfall to save them from brutality by the unbelieving Jews. You can study a lot of this in Acts Chapter 17. So Paul explains to them, they were not in the great tribulation that Christ warned about in Matthew Chapters 24 &25. This is the answer to the question the Disciples asked Him about of His statement in (Matt. 23:39) This is the week of years in Daniel Prophecy. Christ plainly states that we (Church) will not go through the testing of the world. (Rev. 3:10)

Just a simple yes or no question. Do you believe Revelations is only about Israel and what judgements will come against them if they do not repent and accept Jesus as Messiah?

 

[for_his_glory]

The word Rapture is found nowhere in any scripture nor in any Hebrew and Greek concordances or Bible dictionaries, but only called being caught up, 1Thessalonians 4:17. Some people have taken the transliterate word of the Greek, Harpazo, to mean Rapture, but the definition of this word is:
1. to seize, carry off by force
2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. to snatch out or away

The Latin word rapio is where the word Rapture came from as it means to be seized or snatched up. No where in scripture does is say we will be seized or snatched up, but only that we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and will evermore be with Him on the last day. It's no secret quiet rapture as the voice, the sound of a trumpet, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18 and every eye seeing Jesus return, Rev 1:7, doesn't sound like we are seized or snatched up from the earth.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Just a simple yes or no question. Do you believe Revelations is only about Israel and what judgements will come against them if they do not repent and accept Jesus as Messiah?

I can not answer with simple yes or no the way you worded it. But Revelation is the result or fulfillment of Israel's disobedience for putting their trusting in other nations. Most of Revelation is of OT warnings to Israel being carried out.

 

[for_his_glory]

I can not answer with simple yes or no the way you worded it. But Revelation is the result or fulfillment of Israel's disobedience for putting their trusting in other nations. Most of Revelation is of OT warnings to Israel being carried out.

OK, thank you as I would see your answer would be yes, which is in part very correct. Now another question, do you believe Revelations is for the Gentiles?

 

[Jim Parker]

Does not the body gather here in these forums?

No.
You are confusing the "virtual" with the "real."
Chatting on the internet is not anything even remotely related to communion with the actual body of Christ no matter how comfortable and safe it is from being challenged by sound doctrine.

 

[Douglas Summers]

OK, thank you as I would see your answer would be yes, which is in part very correct. Now another question, do you believe Revelations is for the Gentiles?

Revelation, while Israel is receiving the results of trusting the nations, and not trusting God's and His warning. anoints a Jewish remnant who have not bowed down to the heathen nations (gentiles) and this Jewish remnant will be preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom and salvation in Jesus Christ to all the world (Matt. 24: 13-14) (Revelation chapter 7) where a multitude that you can not count will be saved of ALL nations (Jew and Gentile). So Revelation is a warning to the Gentile also in how God will deal with the Gentile nations on how they treated Israel. Imagine, the world will have the book of current events foretold beforehand, knowing what will happen, yet many still will not believe God.

 

[Free]

Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

Notice in verse 12 one like the Son of man. Angels are not Sons of man, as only Jesus is referenced throughout scripture as the Son of man. In this verse the angel is likened unto the Son of man who (Jesus) as like Jesus angels receive their power and authority from God to speak in His behalf using the very words of God.

Dan 7:13 "I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.
Dan 7:14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed. (ESV)

Notice that this is the exact same wording as in Rev. 1:13: "and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest." And in Dan. 7 we see that it is this One that receives a kingdom that will last forever.

Jesus sent this angel to John in all power and authority to show John these revelations in visions while he was in the Spirit.

Yes, Jesus sent this angel but the angel is the medium through which the visions are given to John. The angel does not appear to be a part of the revelation itself.

Everything from vs. 1-19 is the angel acting on the power and authority from God to reveal these descriptive visions. The voice saying I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last was the angel proclaiming to John who it was that had the power and authority to show John those things to write in a book.

No, that does not at all fit the flow of the passage.

There are four factors that show this is an angel and not Jesus talking to John.
1. vs. 8 "saith the Lord" which the angel is repeating what Jesus said to him to tell John

There is no indication that this is the angel speaking. It is something that John wrote down but it is God speaking. This is not part of the revelation but rather could be just a word from God that John received.

2. vs.10 "heard behind me a great voice" meaning the great power and authority given to the angel to speak Gods words

No, it just means "a great voice." We know nothing more at this point. We certainly cannot say that it means "the great power and authority given to the angel to speak Gods words," as that would be making the text say something it does not.

3. vs.12 "turned to see the voice" only saw seven candle sticks which are the seven churches with each one having an angel over them

John is here simply describing the surroundings. I'm not sure what your point is here.

4. vs. 13 "one likened unto the Son of God" emphasis on likened as the angel was likened unto Jesus who gave the angel power and authority to speak God's words exactly like God spoke.

"Son of man" not "Son of God." I've explained this above and it certainly is not an angel.

From vs. 13-16 John describes what this angel looks like. Vs.17-20 the angel lays his hand on John speaking the words of Jesus

It is Jesus described and it is Jesus speaking.

Read Rev 1:1-20 without the verse numbers and punctuation as it was written as a letter to the seven Churches in Asia where John was living at that time. It makes a hugh difference, at least to me it does.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John Who bare record of the word of God and of the testimony of Jesus Christ and of all things that he saw.
Blessed is he that readeth and they that hear the words of this prophecy and keep those things which are written therein for the time is at hand.

John to the seven churches which are in Asia Grace be unto you and peace from him which is and which was and which is to come and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne And from Jesus Christ who is the faithful witness and the first begotten of the dead and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Behold he cometh with clouds and every eye shall see him and they also which pierced him and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so Amen. I am Alpha and Omega the beginning and the ending saith the Lord which is and which was and which is to come the Almighty.

I John who also am your brother and companion in tribulation and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ was in the isle that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day and heard behind me a great voice as of a trumpet Saying I am Alpha and Omega the first and the last and What thou seest write in a book and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia unto Ephesus and unto Smyrna and unto Pergamos and unto Thyatira and unto Sardis and unto Philadelphia and unto Laodicea.

And I turned to see the voice that spake with me And being turned I saw seven golden candlesticks And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man clothed with a garment down to the foot and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool as white as snow and his eyes were as a flame of fire And his feet like unto fine brass as if they burned in a furnace and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

It makes no difference.

 

[smaller]

2Thessalonians 2:1-12 is speaking about the falling away from truth, not sin, as compared to the two beast and its mark in Rev 13 that causes this falling away from truth as many will believe the lies of Satan. Here are the clues in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

There will be NO CHANGE as the "end time" presents for any of us until very certain events transpire, IF we happen to even be here at thee end.

Technically we all come to an end regardless of the greater end time sights. So individually there is an end time as well. But there is a promise of a collective end time.

In a very long time of studies on these postures there are only two things I'm really convinced of about end times. Once anyone grasps these two very simple observations all the rest of the details are rather secondary events but if any do understand them they will see more in Revelation.

The events are this.

God in Christ will be revealed in us, here on earth, for those who are still alive in fleshly bodies.

The devil and his messengers will be destroyed. And these also are our own current issue in the flesh. We all sin, we have sin as a present tense occupation of our flesh and sin is of the devil or demonic in nature.

In order for the Promise we are looking for, the revealing of Christ in us to happen (technically the Spirit of Christ is ALREADY in us, but not FULLY revealed), the second event listed above has to transpire FIRST.

Fairly simple.

Are we going to be rocketing off into the atmosphere? Very.funny.joke

 

[smaller]

The last time means the last antichrist who is the son of perdition being the last false prophet who is the beast out of the earth in Rev Chapter 13 that will cause a great falling away from God's truth.

Uh, no. There will be no individual man as thee anti-Christ. The anti-Christ is an adverse evil spirit that occupies the flesh of many people. The New Testament Gospels are filled with examples of this. The actual culprit(s) are openly revealed. Why believers are looking for ANOTHER culprit is the only strange part when they can't seem to grasp the significance of the culprits we already have been show.

The devil and his messengers are those culprits. Man is not our enemy. That's really all there is to it.

Were there some 'individual man' as the anti-Christ, the scriptures would have to be rewritten or they would not be true. For example the command to love our neighbors as ourselves (too many citings to list) would not and could not apply to "that man." The dictate to speak evil of NO MAN in Titus 3:2 would not and could not possibly be true and apply to "that man." The dictate given to Peter in Acts 10, to call no man common or unclean would not and could not apply to "that man." These are just a few examples.

Believers looking for an individual man as thee anti-Christ are simply wasting their time. Millions of believers have already been disappointed and WRONG about this matter, and went to their graves completely IGNORANT on this subject. And many more will also.

 

[smaller]

2Thessalonians 2:1-12 is speaking about the falling away from truth, not sin, as compared to the two beast and its mark in Rev 13 that causes this falling away from truth as many will believe the lies of Satan. Here are the clues in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I already address this. Lucifer is also called A MAN in the scriptures and Lucifer is THE DEVIL.

Why is Lucifer called a man? Why can Satan be called a man? Why is the "son of perdition" who obviously is still around after the death of JUDAS spoken of by Paul later?

Because SATAN and devils inhabit MAN. Man is the house of devils.

Matthew 12:
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

 

[Douglas Summers]

John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Glory, As I have said before and as you have given the Scripture proof. What you call "the" falling away, as an event that will happen to the Church had already begun.(1 John 2:18-19) (1 Thes. 2:7) That is why we were told to test the spirits to see if they are of God, for already, many false prophets have separated them self from Christ's Apostles (or falling away as you claim it means). And the "we know it is the last days" is the last days of the Church. The Lord has been at hand for 2000 years in time of man, but there is no time with God. A 1000 years of man is as one day to God. God is ageless. So, if the "falling away" was a future event to happen as you teach, then we would already have been translated. For the world wide church is totally corrupt. And it had already started in John and Paul's day. And while I agree that many use Christ name in preaching, but deceiving their followers with a false Gospel and doctrine. Matthew 24:4 Does not mean that. It means that in the last days during great tribulation, many will claim that they them self are the Christ (and there are men that will believe them,even as the anti Christ sets himself upon the throne in Jerusalem to be worshiped as God.)(Jim Jones would be a good example) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Do not be deceived, that day will not come till "the removal first" (of the Church) Please do not reply until you study the posted Scriptures.

 

[Natha]

Glory, As I have said before and as you have given the Scripture proof. What you call "the" falling away, as an event that will happen to the Church had already begun.(1 John 2:18-19) (1 Thes. 2:7) That is why we were told to test the spirits to see if they are of God, for already, many false prophets have separated them self from Christ's Apostles (or falling away as you claim it means). And the "we know it is the last days" is the last days of the Church. The Lord has been at hand for 2000 years in time of man, but there is no time with God. A 1000 years of man is as one day to God. God is ageless. So, if the "falling away" was a future event to happen as you teach, then we would already have been translated. For the world wide church is totally corrupt. And it had already started in John and Paul's day. And while I agree that many use Christ name in preaching, but deceiving their followers with a false Gospel and doctrine. Matthew 24:4 Does not mean that. It means that in the last days during great tribulation, many will claim that they them self are the Christ (and there are men that will believe them,even as the anti Christ sets himself upon the throne in Jerusalem to be worshiped as God.)(Jim Jones would be a good example) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Do not be deceived, that day will not come till "the removal first" (of the Church) Please do not reply until you study the posted Scriptures.

I agree with this comment... present church is mostly diverted from truth... lot of false matters entered into present church..

 

[Sinthesis]

Are the false matters about crucial or frivolous subjects? Arguing about one's hopes and dreams for their endtimes is frivolous.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Are the false matters about crucial or frivolous subjects? Arguing about one's hopes and dreams for their endtimes is frivolous.

Really? So you think it was frivolous for the Lord to send out the Disciples to preach the Gospel truth and doctrines concerning the calling and election of His Body....The pillars of truth! (Ephesians Chapter 3) for starters. Then study the Acts of the Apostles through the Revelation of Jesus Christ. You must be born again! Correcting false teachings is not arguing. The arguing comes from those who will not believe the Truth.