Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[Douglas Summers]

OK, but it is only the Holy Spirit that can teach us, John 14:26, There are many anointed teachers out their, but apart from the Holy Spirit those who are not anointed to teach will fall prey to the lies of Satan. We always need to safeguard ourselves and read the word and study it ourselves so we know what we are taught is truth or error, 1John 4:1-6.

I Agree.

 

[for_his_glory]

By continuing to read:
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet
Rev 1:11 saying, "Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."
Rev 1:12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,
Rev 1:13 and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest.
Rev 1:14 The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire,
Rev 1:15 his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters.
Rev 1:16 In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.
Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last,
Rev 1:18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. (ESV)

Please read post #1193 as it might explain it better.

 

[for_his_glory]

It is entirely on topic. This observation started in Revelation 1 and extended to the same fault you presented from there to Paul's seeing Jesus, confirmed by scriptures numerous times/ways. But it did unveil a deeper basic fault in sight on your end.

Most people have these faults, no matter how sincere they are or how hard they study. These are what keep us all, any of us, no matter how educated or sincere we are from seeing everything as we should from the scriptures. Paul also acknowledged this principle for himself, knowing that he only saw in part and as though a glass darkly. I acknowledged this principle as a hard line fact for myself long long ago and it is precisely this fact that keeps me from accepting the pre-trib (or mid-post) trib positions because exactly NONE of those positions prove to be capable of satisfactorily harmonizing the body of scriptures on the matters and this is just a fact. And anyone who has studied ALL of them knows this to be a fact.

And likewise anyone who puts on the pre-trib shoes and doesn't intimately KNOW what the scriptural faults of the position really are has no business claiming much of anything.

They just show themselves unlearned. I'd say the majority of the adherents buy these positions from somebody else to begin with. The only way to confirm any position is to study the SCRIPTURAL COUNTER PROPOSALS from the alternative camps and what they will find in a hurry is that the COUNTER PROPOSALS are, in many cases quite solid.

And this means that pre-trib doesn't and can not compute across the board and is incapable of providing scriptural harmony. And it isn't. This is just a fact.

Once any person knows this and persists in keeping the position shows again they are either divisive or unlearned.

Having studied these matters for a lifetime I honestly don't have a solid position on end times because of it's complexities. But I do have & see a lot of scriptural BOMBS for the standard sets of eschatology that blow them out of the water and on that basis I know that the pre-mid and post trib positions can not even remotely possibly be (entirely) TRUE. All the positions are what I call BITS AND PIECES true which means partly true partly NOT true whatsoever.

All I'm ever interested in these matters is truth. That's my only agenda.

I sat under the pretrib teachings for quite a few years and and believed every word they spoke, but yet I had a feeling inside of me that something was not right about what they were teaching. They use Rev Chapter 4 as proof scripture that the Church is Raptured before the tribulation begins and as much as I read and reread it nothing in there even spoke of a Rapture, but I thought maybe I was missing something for after all they are to be the experts. The more I listened the more I felt none of it was right so I took it upon myself to start reading Revelations, but was only getting a jest of it and not the whole until I learned to let the Holy Spirit reveal it to me as I started reading word by word, sentence by sentence then Chapter by Chapter while cross referencing OT with NT. I would not leave a sentence or even a word until I understood it. I will probably never exhaust it for I don't think any of us ever could, but the whole point of this is that Revelations has no complexities when you start out with a clean slate and read it for what it says especially when you read the prophecies in the OT and what Jesus has already said in the NT.

 

[n2thelight]

Please read m post #1193 as it explains how it was an angel that spoke to John

Question still remains for you,who is the Alpha and the Omega?

Theirs only one,and He is the Christ

No way around that fact

 

[smaller]

I sat under the pretrib teachings for quite a few years and and believed every word they spoke, but yet I had a feeling inside of me that something was not right about what they were teaching. They use Rev Chapter 4 as proof scripture that the Church is Raptured before the tribulation begins and as much as I read and reread it nothing in there even spoke of a Rapture, but I thought maybe I was missing something for after all they are to be the experts. The more I listened the more I felt none of it was right so I took it upon myself to start reading Revelations, but was only getting a jest of it and not the whole until I learned to let the Holy Spirit reveal it to me as I started reading word by word, sentence by sentence then Chapter by Chapter while cross referencing OT with NT. I would not leave a sentence or even a word until I understood it. I will probably never exhaust it for I don't think any of us ever could, but the whole point of this is that Revelations has no complexities when you start out with a clean slate and read it for what it says especially when you read the prophecies in the OT and what Jesus has already said in the NT.

Failure to understand the complexities are mandated by the scriptures.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

When you study your own darkness you might be amazed at how much MORE you will be shown by the Spirit of Truth.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I sat under the pretrib teachings for quite a few years and and believed every word they spoke, but yet I had a feeling inside of me that something was not right about what they were teaching. They use Rev Chapter 4 as proof scripture that the Church is Raptured before the tribulation begins and as much as I read and reread it nothing in there even spoke of a Rapture, but I thought maybe I was missing something for after all they are to be the experts. The more I listened the more I felt none of it was right so I took it upon myself to start reading Revelations, but was only getting a jest of it and not the whole until I learned to let the Holy Spirit reveal it to me as I started reading word by word, sentence by sentence then Chapter by Chapter while cross referencing OT with NT. I would not leave a sentence or even a word until I understood it. I

It is strange. The Lord confirmed to me the rapture (1 Thes. 2:3 The "Apostasia" Greek, Meaning "the departure from") (Vulgate Latin "rapturis") Which is where we get the word "rapture" from. Godly men taught me in general, but God gave me the increase or the deeper understanding and confirmed it by the teachings of Christ. If it were not true, the Lord would have told me. You can not believe every word they spoke and also feel it was not right? There is the truth (you did not understand it). And they use Chapter 4 in Revelation because it confirms the departure of the Church in (1 Thes. 2:3 and 1 Corinthians chapter 15) If they were experts, then they taught you nothing! If they were Godly men of Christ, you should have listened to them. You base your knowledge on feelings. You said the more YOU listened the more YOU felt it was not right. So YOU took it upon YOURSELF and YOU thought maybe YOU were missing something. Do not confuse YOU with the Holy Spirit. If it you did not understand it, it may not have been the teachers, but that you just did not understand it? Why would the Lord teach us different things? Most of what the Lord confirmed to me was by vision or the illuminating power of the Spirits presence. You think you have discovered something because it replaced something you did not understand. And what you believe now made more sense than the correct doctrine? You need to test every Spirit. And we should not use the Holy Spirit to give more credibility to what we believe...unless it is true.

 

[JLB]

Question still remains for you,who is the Alpha and the Omega?

Theirs only one,and He is the Christ

No way around that fact

I agree, that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega.

 

[JLB]

It is strange. The Lord confirmed to me the rapture (1 Thes. 2:3 The "Apostasia" Greek, Meaning "the departure from") (Vulgate Latin "rapturis") Which is where we get the word "rapture" from. Godly men taught me in general, but God gave me the increase or the deeper understanding and confirmed it by the teachings of Christ. If it were not true, the Lord would have told me. You can not believe every word they spoke and also feel it was not right? There is the truth (you did not understand it). And they use Chapter 4 in Revelation because it confirms the departure of the Church in (1 Thes. 2:3 and 1 Corinthians chapter 15) If they were experts, then they taught you nothing! If they were Godly men of Christ, you should have listened to them. You base your knowledge on feelings. You said the more YOU listened the more YOU felt it was not right. So YOU took it upon YOURSELF and YOU thought maybe YOU were missing something. Do not confuse YOU with the Holy Spirit. If it you did not understand it, it may not have been the teachers, but that you just did not understand it? Why would the Lord teach us different things? Most of what the Lord confirmed to me was by vision or the illuminating power of the Spirits presence. You think you have discovered something because it replaced something you did not understand. And what you believe now made more sense than the correct doctrine? You need to test every Spirit. And we should not use the Holy Spirit to give more credibility to what we believe...unless it is true.

The scriptures plainly confirm that the coming of the Lord to gather His people is the same coming of the Lord that destroys the antichrist.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8


JLB

 

[JLB]

It is strange. The Lord confirmed to me the rapture (1 Thes. 2:3 The "Apostasia" Greek, Meaning "the departure from") (Vulgate Latin "rapturis") Which is where we get the word "rapture" from. Godly men taught me in general, but God gave me the increase or the deeper understanding and confirmed it by the teachings of Christ. If it were not true, the Lord would have told me. You can not believe every word they spoke and also feel it was not right? There is the truth (you did not understand it). And they use Chapter 4 in Revelation because it confirms the departure of the Church in (1 Thes. 2:3 and 1 Corinthians chapter 15) If they were experts, then they taught you nothing! If they were Godly men of Christ, you should have listened to them. You base your knowledge on feelings. You said the more YOU listened the more YOU felt it was not right. So YOU took it upon YOURSELF and YOU thought maybe YOU were missing something. Do not confuse YOU with the Holy Spirit. If it you did not understand it, it may not have been the teachers, but that you just did not understand it? Why would the Lord teach us different things? Most of what the Lord confirmed to me was by vision or the illuminating power of the Spirits presence. You think you have discovered something because it replaced something you did not understand. And what you believe now made more sense than the correct doctrine? You need to test every Spirit. And we should not use the Holy Spirit to give more credibility to what we believe...unless it is true.

I just find it hard to believe that anyone could possibly believe that apostasy could mean anything other than defecting from the faith, religion or truth, which is to say in this case a turning away from Jesus Christ.

Strong's G646 - apostasia -

a falling away, defection, apostasy

ἀποστασίαapostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

Strong's G647 - apostasion -

1. divorce, repudiation
2. a bill of divorce

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. Acts 21:21


In the Septuagint -

22 “The Lord God of gods, the Lord God of gods, He knows, and let Israel itself know—if it is in rebellion, or if in treachery against the Lord, do not save us this day. Joshua 22:22


Dictionary:

a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party,cause,etc.

JLB

 

[smaller]

I just find it hard to believe that anyone could possibly believe that apostasy could mean anything other than defecting from the faith, religion or truth, which is to say in this case a turning away from Jesus Christ.

Strong's G646 - apostasia -

a falling away, defection, apostasy

ἀποστασίαapostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

Strong's G647 - apostasion -

1. 
   
   
   • divorce, repudiation
   • a bill of divorce

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. Acts 21:21


In the Septuagint -

22 “The Lord God of gods, the Lord God of gods, He knows, and let Israel itself know—if it is in rebellion, or if in treachery against the Lord, do not save us this day. Joshua 22:22


Dictionary:

a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party,cause,etc.

JLB

The falling away as you think you see it is not as you depict.

The falling away of sin and the demonic impetus behind it is required in order for Christ to bring about this change.

And the result is this:

Philippians 3:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Our bodies are vile because evil is present with us (Romans 7:21), our flesh is contrary to and against the Spirit (Gal. 5:17) and our sin is demonic (1 John 3:8).

In other words it is the falling away of DEMONS influences from believers flesh. This same separation is shown in Matt. 25's separation of sheep from goats. There are only 2 parties dealt with in that account. Man and devils. These are separated, one from another. This same ACTIVITY is what Jesus engaged in on earth prior. Accept there is a GREATER PROMISE of this as a finality at the conclusion of this present EVIL AGE.

Not only the above, but believers can not even believe the scriptures because the devils influences over their flesh will not allow that to transpire. They will instead JUSTIFY the devil and their sins, cover them up, claim they aren't sinners, don't have evil present with them, etc etc. All done by that demonic influence in their own flesh. And this draws the believers deeply into hypocrisy and lies, divisions, strifes, on and on it goes. Which is right where the devil LOVES to take believers. All in some vain quest to get believers to think they are SINLESS or can attain such a state on their own apart from the power of God in Christ Himself.

And all of that is why the DEVILS must fall away first. They can not be saved.

 

[JLB]

In other words it is the falling away of DEMONS influences from believers flesh.

The falling away, apostasy, is Christians turning to the false christ, who goes to the temple of God, proclaiming that he is God.

This will happen before the Day of Christ, when He returns to gather His people and destroy the the false christ.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


The Lord Himself will destroy the false christ, the impostor, by the brightness of His coming.

The falling away and the false christ come first, then Jesus returns to gather His people and destroy the false christ.
That is the point Paul is making to these people who thought the coming of the Lord and the resurrection was past.


JLB

 

[smaller]

The falling away, apostasy, is Christians turning to the false christ, who goes to the temple of God, proclaiming that he is God.

The deception of the churches happened a long long time ago. Prophesied by Paul in Acts. Pay particularly close attention to the "of your own selves" portion.

Acts 20:
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

This will happen before the Day of Christ, when He returns to gather His people and destroy the the false christ.

The anti-Christ is a wicked spirit (many actually.)

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

That is the point Paul is making to these people who thought the coming of the Lord and the resurrection was past.

Agreed.

 

[JLB]

The deception of the churches happened a long long time ago. Prophesied by Paul in Acts. Pay particularly close attention to the "of your own selves" portion.

Acts 20:
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Paul encourages those who he taught to take heed, so that the wolves would not draw them away, to make disciples after them.

Your claim makes it seem as all the churches are in deception [except you of course], whereby this condition is hopeless and irreversible.

I don't agree.



JLB

 

[smaller]

Paul encourages those who he taught to take heed, so that the wolves would not draw them away, to make disciples after them.

Your claim makes it seem as all the churches are in deception [except you of course], whereby this condition is hopeless and irreversible.

Jesus makes that abundantly clear in Rev. 2-3. The works of Satan were in them all. All have sin, sin is of the devil. Members won't hear of it and the reason they won't is that we ALL, me included, do have spiritual adversaries who do perform quite effectively the roles they play.

I don't agree.

I believe Jesus was accurate, but people really don't care to hear of it.

 

[Douglas Summers]

The scriptures plainly confirm that the coming of the Lord to gather His people is the same coming of the Lord that destroys the antichrist.

It is two events JLB. Paul goes from the Philippians to Thessalonica to the Jewish synagogue (even though Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, He always preached to the Jew First wherever he traveled, Always!). Paul preached for three Sabbaths and many Jews believed the Gospel and that Jesus was the Messiah and His called out ones were as His body. They would suffer persecution from the Jewish religious leaders, but the unbelieving Jew was to be tested (at another time) during that time when the whole world would be tested (go through tribulation that the world has never seen)and a time when a multitude (more than anyone can count) will be saved (saved from what?) From Almighty God's judgment on those who persecuted the Jew. The whole purpose Israel goes through a great tribulation tribulation (Matt. 24:21) is to show that Jesus IS the Messiah, as He destroys all the Gentile nations that persecuted Israel and to fulfill the warnings to Israel if they did not repent) . There are 7 judgments in the Scriptures. Two of them are the Judgment of the nations for their treatment of Israel. Another is the Judgment of unbelieving Jew's. The other 5 judgments are: our sins, judgment of death by Christ, life for the believer, The judgment of self, avoiding chastisement from God as a son, The judgment of our responsibilities of our gifts and how we used them, when we meet Christ at the calling out of the Church from this age, The Great white Throne Judgement of nominal Christians and self righteous (called the second death) and the Judgment of Angels (of which the Church will preside in.

After the believing Jew's at Thessalonica had converted and regenerated and met together, the unbelieving Jew's began to persecute The believing Jews, Who thought they had been left behind and Christ had taken out His Body as they had been taught by Paul. And that is what Paul is addressing to the Jewish Christians who thought they were rejected and were going through a great tribulation. The persecution was so bad that Paul and Silas had to be taken out of the City by nightfall to save them from brutality by the unbelieving Jews. You can study a lot of this in Acts Chapter 17. So Paul explains to them, they were not in the great tribulation that Christ warned about in Matthew Chapters 24 &25. This is the answer to the question the Disciples asked Him about of His statement in (Matt. 23:39) This is the week of years in Daniel Prophecy. Christ plainly states that we (Church) will not go through the testing of the world. (Rev. 3:10)

 

[JLB]

It is two events JLB.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12


Go ahead and show us where the coming of the Lord is a description of two events here in what Paul writes and teaches.

Point out the phrase or verse here in 2 Thessalonians that shows us there is a time separation in what Paul is describing here.

Paul's context shows he is describing what will happen, at the coming of the Lord: The gathering of the Lord's people, and the destruction of the false christ, by the very brightness of His coming.

He says the same thing in 1 Thessalonians -

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4


The coming of the Lord is the Day of the Lord, in which the Lord comes to gather His people and destroy the wicked.

• ...so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

Those who are alive and remain, who will be raptured, are still on the earth, on the Day of the Lord, when He returns to gather His people and destroy the wicked.

 

[Douglas Summers]

The falling away, apostasy, is Christians turning to the false christ, who goes to the temple of God, proclaiming that he is God.

This will happen before the Day of Christ, when He returns to gather His people and destroy the the false christ.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


The Lord Himself will destroy the false christ, the impostor, by the brightness of His coming.

The falling away and the false christ come first, then Jesus returns to gather His people and destroy the false christ.
That is the point Paul is making to these people who thought the coming of the Lord and the resurrection was past.


JLB

• apostasia, falling away, the departure, apostasia rapture ...
  www.rapturenotes.com/apostasia-departure-falling-away.html
  
  JLB, Do an exhaustive Study on apostasia Strongs is not always exact in meaning. Notice the Scripture says "the" apostasia. The "the" apostasia gives it significance to a certain or special apostasia.
  

 

[JLB]

• apostasia, falling away, the departure, apostasia rapture ...
  www.rapturenotes.com/apostasia-departure-falling-away.html
  
  JLB, Do an exhaustive Study on apostasia Strongs is not always exact in meaning. Notice the Scripture says "the" apostasia. The "the" apostasia gives it significance to a certain or special apostasia.

There is no one, who is honestly in search of the truth, who will try and twist the word apostasy into something other than a defection from the faith, or religious belief.

Only those with a preconceived agenda, to prop up a man made unbiblical doctrine such as the pre-trip rapture, would try to redefine what this word means.


JLB

 

[JLB]

• apostasia, falling away, the departure, apostasia rapture ...
  www.rapturenotes.com/apostasia-departure-falling-away.html
  
  JLB, Do an exhaustive Study on apostasia Strongs is not always exact in meaning. Notice the Scripture says "the" apostasia. The "the" apostasia gives it significance to a certain or special apostasia.

Go ahead and show us where the coming of the Lord is a description of two events here in what Paul writes and teaches.

This same coming of the Lord that Paul describes in verse 1, is contextually the same coming of the Lord that destroys the false christ.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

 

[for_his_glory]

Question still remains for you,who is the Alpha and the Omega?

Theirs only one,and He is the Christ

No way around that fact

No doubt at all, but if you read that post it will show that it was the angel who was sent to John via, Jesus, via God as all is God's spoken words.