Pre-trib Rapture is not scriptural

[dirtfarmer]

Just putting this in here:

hello williamt, dirtfarmer here

Numbers 16:3 has to do with the rebellion of Korah and in verse 32 is the first recorded earthquake in the bible.

The last "Christ married to them." Jeremiah 3:8 "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorcement; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot."
So are we to believe that Christ was married before he became the bridegroom to the Church?

As the references in Peter about kingdom of priests, holy nation, and a peculiar treasure, that is teaching the replacement theology ( Church replaced the nation of Israel). God told the children of Israel in Exodus 19:5-6 " Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for the earth is mine. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.". The body of believers (the Church) is espoused to Christ the bridegroom and will be his bride, not a kingdom of priests during the millennium to teach all nations to observe what Christ has commanded( Matthew 2818-20

 

[dirtfarmer]

No sir.

The point is not all who are Israel [after the flesh] are Israel.

Christ Jesus is the True Israel of God.

Those who are in Covenant with Christ, the True Israel are Israel [the true Israel of God].

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.


6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man,even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Romans 9:1-13

Paul is showing the election of God according to purpose. Christ is the eternal purpose of God.

He shows the lineage whom God would use to bring the Messiah into the world was through the descendant's of Abraham, but more specifically through the children of promise, that is to say, those whom God choose... Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then Judah.

In the middle of this discourse Paul, makes his statement... For they are not all Israel who are of Israel.

Ishmael was Abraham's son, not Jacob's [Israel].

Christ is the Israel of God, and those who are joined to him in covenant relationship are the Israel of God.

Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. Exodus 4:22

“When Israel was a child, I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son. Hosea 11:1

These are prophetic references to Christ, God's Firstborn... meaning these references in the old testament pointed to Christ, as God's firstborn Son.


13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him.”
14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”
Matthew 2:13-15



JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Ishmael was Abraham's first born according to the flesh, but Isaac was the first born according to faith, the son of promise.
Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now they son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell the of."

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Ishmael was Abraham's first born according to the flesh, but Isaac was the first born according to faith, the son of promise.
Genesis 22:2 "And he said, Take now they son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell the of."

WE all know that Isaac was Abraham's son by promise.

The point we are discussing is this statement: For they are not all Israel who are of Israel.

Ishmael was Abraham's son, not Jacob's [Israel].

The point is not all who are Israel [after the flesh] are Israel.

Christ Jesus is the True Israel of God.

Those who are in Covenant with Christ, the True Israel are Israel [the true Israel of God].

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man,even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Romans 9:1-13

Paul is showing the election of God according to purpose. Christ is the eternal purpose of God.

He shows the lineage whom God would use to bring the Messiah into the world was through the descendant's of Abraham, but more specifically through the children of promise, that is to say, those whom God choose... Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then Judah.

In the middle of this discourse Paul, makes his statement... For they are not all Israel who are of Israel.

Ishmael was Abraham's son, not Jacob's [Israel].

Christ is the Israel of God, and those who are joined to him in covenant relationship are the Israel of God.

Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn.Exodus 4:22

“When Israel was a child, I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son. Hosea 11:1

These are prophetic references to Christ, God's Firstborn... meaning these references in the old testament pointed to Christ, as God's firstborn Son.


13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him.”
14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15 and was there until the death of Herod,that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”
Matthew 2:13-15



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here



hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

Romans 11:2 tells us that "God has not cast away his people."
Romans 11:5 tells us that there is still a remnant .

God will never cast away anyone as in His longsuffering and patience would that none should perish, 2Peter 3:9,10, as God gives everyone a chance to repent until the door of Salvation is closed on the last day when Christ returns, John 6:40. Salvation has come to the Jew first and then the Gentiles, Romans 1:16-18. The salvation of the Gentiles was to provoke jealousy in the Jew to bring them back to God, Romans 11:11-27. We can also read in Rev 7:1-8 that God has saved a generational remnant from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they still continue to go after other gods and refuse to repent. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh.

 

[for_his_glory]

hello smaller, dirtfarmer here

Romans 11:26-27 " And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins".

There are two major points in those two verses that people miss.
1. the Deliverer being Jesus
2. and the timing of when God takes away their sin

We know that the tribes of Judah and Benjamin throughout the generations have always been faithful to God, but many of the other tribes of Israel fell into Judaism and never came back to God repenting of their sin of going after other gods. Those Israelite's that never came back to God before Messiah come (old covenant) have already physically died and sealed their fate which is the lake of fire. It's the same today with Gods new covenant of grace through faith in Jesus God is still waiting for all of Israel to return back to Him through repentance and accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. The timing of God taking away their sin is that of God still waiting in His longsuffering and patience that none of them would perish and many have come back to God, but yet there are many that refuse. God gave the Deliver that all should be saved, but not all will return back to Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

I agree that Revelation 4 has nothing to with the rapture of the Church.

Matthew 24:29-31 is the answer to one of the questions that was asked of Jesus, the sign of his coming. He doesn't answer "When shall these tings be?

That is right as no one knows the day or hour of His return, but He does give us signs to watch for like that of Vs. 29 and also warns us not to take the mark of the beast in Rev 13.

 

[for_his_glory]

Just putting this in here:

Thank you for sharing this as Salvation came to the Jew first and then the Gentile that makes us all one body of Christ by faith in Him alone through Gods free gift of grace, Galatians 3:25-29; Ephesians 2:8

 

[smaller]

We can also read in Rev 7:1-8 that God has saved a generational remnant from the twelve tribes of Israel, except for the tribe of Dan and Ephraim as they still continue to go after other gods and refuse to repent. To keep it twelve tribes since Dan and Ephraim are not mentioned in vs. 4-8 the tribe of Joseph appears twice, once under his own name and once under the name of his son Issachar/Manasseh.

The reasons for not noting Dan and Ephraim are not limited to what you propose. There are other sights to be had. For example, Dan, meaning "a judge." For those sealed, the judge and judgment has passed from them and is no longer needed. Ephraim, meaning "God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction," (Gen. 41:52) affliction is also passed from those sealed. There is also an immense amount of significance in these two tribes coming from the "bowels" of Joseph, one blessed above the other, Ephraim over Manasseh, by Jacob, "wittingly." In that action of Joseph it was essentially a repeat of what Jacob himself went through, coming before Isaac, his own "elder brother" getting a later blessing and Jacob stealing his from his elder "twin." I could write on this subject for a long long time. Even from Abraham's bosom came two similar children, the younger blessed, the elder, not. There are deeper meanings behind these matters. Much deeper.

Understanding that these can be long conversations of various observations, and such scriptural constructs, movements, directives, actions with the tribes and it's various members/components are all quite entirely interesting. It is even more interesting when studying the various movements and placements of the tribes in the O.T. Who was left on the wilderness side of the Jordan and who crossed over, the tribes of Joseph's sons being split to one side and the other, etc etc.

I find these matters greatly interesting and showing much more interesting things than just what you proposed above. It's not that simple.

 

[smaller]

2. and the timing of when God takes away their sin

To understand "end time" matters we might look at what Paul himself sought, while he was still alive in the flesh. What he delivers in this statement is essentially a two fold state, described below. It's very hard to understand:

Philippians 3:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Paul in the above is showing us that the press for apprehension remained with him, even though he was apprehended of Christ. So what exactly was Paul after? In Phil. 3 he tells us exactly what he sought after:

Philippians 3:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

This of course shows this was quite well beyond Paul's own power, his own seeking, his own works. It was his HOPE that he would ditch his vile body while yet living in it. If any are seeing the condition of the 'earthly tabernacle,' the body-the temple, as vile, they are seeing correctly. Let's look at this body of Paul. What happened therein?

Romans 7 is of course, the first stop Paul personally makes, for himself:

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.

Here we see what transpired IN his body was sin, in operations, causing the above to transpire.

Paul did not want this condition of fact, but there it is, nonetheless. Paul then concludes from this that the Divine Purpose of the law is this, and it is an inescapable conclusion of sin operating in the flesh in direct opposition to Gods Law(s):

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Again, this is a hard fact to understand. We know Gods Laws are ordained unto LIFE, but sin has an opposing working, unto death, by the resistance of it in the flesh. What did this cause Paul to do, AFTER salvation. Yes, these are after salvation statements of fact, not "stuff I used to do before I was saved."

Romans 7:
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

I find this a startling conclusion and admittance of extreme honesty by Paul, showing us what sin in his flesh essentially forced him to do, even though he did not want to do things he hated or do evil. He discovers in these disclosures this dictate: That the sin that dwelt in his flesh was "NO MORE I." Paul stated this twice in Romans 7, basically identifying this as a "foreign occupation" of his flesh that was not him as Gods child. He calls this a LAW:

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

We know for no uncertain fact that this is SIN operating in the flesh body of Paul. We know it was a foreign occupation, "no more I." And we know from this the VILE BODY that Paul sought to ditch in Phil. 3:21. We also know that from this working above, of sin becoming 'utterly sinful' that Paul saw himself as the chief of sinners, AFTER salvation. 1 Tim. 1:15. He makes an exact opposite conclusion than what 99.99% of christians think they "achieve" for themselves, of "not sinning." Paul did not make this claim for himself, claiming in fact the exact opposite. Now, let's examine WHO sin is linked to:

1 John 3:
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

This makes a link between sin and the "foreign occupier" of the flesh of Paul. In fact Paul identifies this matter in particular for his own flesh, here:

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

How was Paul buffeted? He again tells us exactly how:

Galatians 4:
13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Does the tempter tempt? Uh, yeah. And does so in the flesh, INTERNALLY. This is not a forensic matter or an empirically found tangible matter, but a matter of a spirit. Thee spirit of disobedience. The end time is an account of the turning of the tables against these "enemies" in our own flesh, the cleansing of the temple body of believers, and the FULL unveiling of Jesus IN us, our Hope of Glory, changed from it's current VILE state. When He "takes away" our sin. Even though this indwelling sin, this evil present is NOT counted against us, IT IS counted against our spiritual adversaries.

So, who can look upon their own flesh in His Light, the Light of His Disclosure of our own darkness?

Romans 13:
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

And again WHO is this darkness attributed to?

Acts 26:
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

The "end time" is about Satan's final destruction. Not ours. Not mankinds. It IS exactly about the destruction of our enemies in our own flesh. And no sinful flesh will care to hear a Word of any of the above, because it is quite factually against and contrary to the Spirit. Gal. 5:17. It can not hear. It can not see. It can not be obedient. It can not be legal. It is not under Grace, but against Grace. It is not for God, but against God. And it can not be under Mercy, because God Is and Remains against indwelling sin and evil present in ALL. There is judgment without mercy to these workings and workers that are "no more I." Yet it was God Himself who placed us, in the flesh, UNDER that spirit of disobedience.

Romans 11:
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Ephesians 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

When we are 'saved' we are turned from that spirit, but we do not rid the flesh of it, as Paul clearly shows us all. We are placed, supposedly, in a position of domination, NOT eradication. Paul sought, every day of his flesh life, the final riddance of this other party, in his own flesh:

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

When THAT PARTY is removed from the flesh, THAT is the day of change, the taking away of sin and it's CAUSE, from our VILE body.

 

[JLB]

When THAT PARTY is removed from the flesh, THAT is the day of change, the taking away of sin and it's CAUSE, from our VILE body.

There is no "party" in our flesh. There is sin in our flesh.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 7:21-8:2


Those who walk after the flesh serve the law of sin.

Those who walk in the Spirit, are free from the law of sin that is in our flesh...the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul rejoices at the revelation that Jesus Christ has set us free from the law of sin and death that dwells in our members... for those who walk according to the Spirit.

Your whole "theology" is built upon being a slave to the sin in our flesh, as having no remedy, when the bible plainly says the remedy is walking according to the Spirit, so that we will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

• I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16

• And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Galatians 5:24

• 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

• 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

You seem to ignore these commands to walk in the Spirit, and deny the sin to reign in our body, and to put to death the deeds of the flesh, and to crucify the flesh.


All I hear you tell everyone is that we are helpless and that Satan dwells in our flesh, and that it's not our fault that we sin, but it's Satan's fault and he will be punished for our sins, and not us.

This is damnable heresy.

You are deceiving people.

We are told that we do indeed have victory over the sin that dwells in our flesh, and the answer is to, walk according to the Spirit.

...if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


JLB

 

[smaller]

There is no "party" in our flesh. There is sin in our flesh.

Sin is of the devil. There is no way to dodge this fact. 1 John 3:8.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 7:21-8:2

Those who walk after the flesh serve the law of sin.

Everyone walks with flesh that is contrary to the Spirit. This much is certain, as Paul himself shows us about himself in Romans 7 and many other citings, such as the hard fact of Gal. 5:17. Paul didn't lift up his flesh, but condemned and hated what was "in it." Paul divided himself from that contrariness but he did NOT DENY he had it to deal with and he did NOT DENY that it worked it's darkness both in his flesh and in his actions. Romans 7:15 & 19.

Anyone who claims otherwise is not telling the truth. We are sinners, saved by Grace Alone.

The "rapture" is this, and yes, IF we are still alive and God ends this present wicked/evil age, THIS is what will happen and yes, we will be standing in this state when it happens.

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[JLB]

Sin is of the devil. There is no way to dodge this fact. 1 John 3:8.

1 John 3:8 does not say this.

He who sins is of the devil...

Why do you misquote the scripture? It seems there is another agenda coming from you.

8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

The devil himself sinned, and was punished for his sin.

He who sins is of the devil...

JLB

 

[smaller]

1 John 3:8 does not say this.

He who sins is of the devil...

Why do you misquote the scripture? It seems there is another agenda coming from you.

It should be openly apparent to you by now that it is our call to condemn the powers of darkness. That is the power of the devil and his minions who do operate on/in the earth.

Just because "some" choose not to see it doesn't mean it's not a reality.

8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

The devil himself sinned, and was punished for his sin.

The devil was made to be a sinner, from his beginning. John 8:44. And yes, the devil IS involved with every sin of man, even in THOUGHT form. The adversary, that power of darkness, does work IN MAN and does work even in the minds of believers. Like it or not it is a hard fact of scripture.

 

[JLB]

Everyone walks with flesh that is contrary to the Spirit. This much is certain, as Paul himself shows us about himself in Romans 7 and many other citings, such as the hard fact of Gal. 5:17.

Those who walk according to the flesh, fulfill the deeds of the flesh, those who walk according to the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk according to the Spirit.

Those who walk according to the flesh, to practice the works of the flesh, are not free from condemnation and will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:16-18


The flesh lust's against the Spirit, and these are contrary to one another, which is why we are warned not to walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

• We are warned to crucify the flesh. Galatians 5:24
• We are warned to put to death the deeds of the flesh. Romans 8:13
• We are warned not to set our minds of the things of the flesh. Romans 8:5-6

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6

• We are warned not to present our members as instruments of sin. Romans 6:13

And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:13

• We are warned not to let sin reign as a ruler that we obey. Romans 6:12

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

• The reason is we have dominion over sin. Romans 6:14

For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:14



JLB

 

[JLB]

It should be openly apparent to you by now that it is our call to condemn the powers of darkness. That is the power of the devil and his minions who do operate on/in the earth.

Just because "some" choose not to see it doesn't mean it's not a reality.

Stop changing the subject.

He who sins is of the devil... 1 John 3:8

Why do you keep misquoting this scripture?


JLB

 

[JLB]

The devil was made to be a sinner, from his beginning. John 8:44. And yes, the devil IS involved with every sin of man, even in THOUGHT form. The adversary, that power of darkness, does work IN MAN and does work even in the minds of believers. Like it or not it is a hard fact of scripture.

Who made the devil to be a sinner?



JLB

 

[smaller]

Those who walk according to the flesh, fulfill the deeds of the flesh, those who walk according to the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

This fact doesn't move for the flesh of any believer:

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Believers can claim this isn't the case for their flesh. They simply don't perceive it and are blind to the obvious.

 

[smaller]

Who made the devil to be a sinner?
JLB

God made all things. There was never any intention of God to leave man in a wet pile of dust. God made man in the natural as a temporal state, as the reality of the death of the flesh shows us. And God made the "waster," the devil, to destroy the natural body.

Isaiah 54:16
Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

and who is this THIEF? This killer? This destroyer?

It is our adversary, the devil.

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Clearly the above shows the "location" of our adversary, in the heart of man, stealing, killing, destroying. Look around you. What do you see? You should easily be able to see the working of the adversary IN MAN, with your own eyes.

 

[JLB]

God made all things. There was never any intention of God to leave man in a wet pile of dust. God made man in the natural as a temporal state, as the reality of the death of the flesh shows us. And God made the "waster," the devil, to destroy the natural body.

Isaiah 54:16
Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

and who is this THIEF? This killer? This destroyer?

It is our adversary, the devil.

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Clearly the above shows the "location" of our adversary, in the heart of man, stealing, killing, destroying. Look around you. What do you see? You should easily be able to see the working of the adversary IN MAN, with your own eyes.

The question is:

Who made the devil to be a sinner?

This question comes from your statement that says...

The devil was made to be a sinner, from his beginning.

Please answer the question.

Who made the devil to be a sinner?


JLB

 

[smaller]

The question is:

Who made the devil to be a sinner?

This question comes from your statement that says...

Please answer the question.

Who made the devil to be a sinner?

JLB

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:

I the Lord do all these things.