Revelation 1:1-3 Seldom examined verses

[Shilohsfoal]

“He initially fought against the Romans during the First Jewish–Roman War as head of Jewish forces in Galilee, until surrendering in 67 AD to Roman forcesled by Vespasian after the six-week siege of Yodfat. Josephus claimed the Jewish Messianic prophecies that initiated the First Jewish–Roman War made reference to Vespasian becoming Emperor of Rome. In response, Vespasian decided to keep Josephus as a slave and presumably interpreter.” He was a slave at first.

A bit later, not at first.

They wanted to put it in the temple and those statues were Roman gods…idols….demons who were worshipped.

What kind of devise? I’ve never heard that and what kind of devise causes desolation? You think it was merely a destructive devise? Those are rarely deposited with advance notice.

When did I say that???

Huh?

We’re done. You’re abusive!!

God is the one who has given the advanced knowledge of the abomination that causes Jerusalems desolation. The exact day in fact.

 

[ezrider]

I get that all of revelation isn't just about those people but seeing the connection in the first three verses makes me wonder if there are any other connections. It makes me want to study the people and events of 70 AD more.

https://christianforums.net/threads/revelation-chapter-17.85076/post-1697199

Vaccine, I would recommend you to read through Stormcrow's posts in the link I provided. I found them to be very helpful.

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory
Too many threads with Revelation 1

I repent 1000 year only.

eddif

And there always will be as everyone is allowed to believe how they want even if we disagree, but respect their belief as we discuss the differences in a loving manner.

 

[eddif]

We were talking the ending of the MOSAIC COVENANT. This happened in 70 AD. Pentecost is irrelevant. The church is irrelevant in that event. That was the point of the OP. Please try to stay with that event.

INHO the destruction of the people 400 years before Jesus began the end of the covenant.

The destruction of the temple ended the physical side of the covenant.

eddif

 

[jasonc]

Being Jewish .there are ways I can verify my ancestry ,one is and the most effective is dna testing .it won't give you a tribe but this was used to verify claims.tish ma bav didn't purge all Jews in judea some remained these are compared to all Jews ,few differences.


I can trace my lineage to crimea Russia on birth certificates only ,going two centuries back .

 

[n2thelight]

1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servantsa the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.

The start of any letter in the Bible states clearly who the writing is intended to reach. This is clear…..except when many read Revelation.

But if we read the words we see the writer and Jesus INTENDED his servants UNDERSTAND what they were about to read. It was NOT intended to be a mystery to those who received these writings. Now which servants?

Obviously the ones receiving the writings living when John was writing. How do we know? It says he wanted to show his servants what would soon take place. Soon doesn’t mean 2000+ years.

Now before you tell me God doesn’t understand what “soon”means to us but only what it means to Him which is essentially nothing (1000 years = 1 day to Him,) the intention was that they, those readers, understand. The book was not supposed to be sealed but open. If a mother tells her hungry children dinner is “soon” she is using “soon” as they understand it, not according to her ability to endure hungry several hours. God isn’t less of a communicator. He used “soon” as we understand it…and soon it was.

Lastly, it needs to be said that the Jewish expression “coming in the clouds” is used elsewhere in scripture to denote God’s judgement on a nation totally destroying it. That is what that metaphor means in the OT. It’s serious judgement accompanied by unspeakable suffering. This judgement happened in 70AD as Jesus said it would.

So Revelation was a book written to those believers in those churches and elsewhere who would suffer as described. It is for us to be amazed at the fulfillment as well as anticipate the final chapters when Jesus comes as when left, not on a horse with an armed entourage, but by Himself. Not angry or wrathful.

Maranatha!

The very name of the Book means to reveal , so yes it's not a mystery ,ty. I will just share the below as well ,from your point of when it was written

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

This verse is the key to understanding the book of Revelation. Without a clear and full understanding of it, the entire book will just not make sense. The sequence of the order will seem strange.

"I"; this is John speaking and telling us where he was. "I was in the Spirit", not in his flesh body; "on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet". John is taken forward in time, "in the Spirit", to the day of the Lord. The "Day of the Lord" is not referring to Sunday or Saturday. This is the same "Day of the Lord" Paul speaks about in I Thessalonians 5:2, as "coming as a thief in the night". Later in II Thessalonians 2:2-3 Paul makes it clear that at the "Day of the Lord" Christ's return will not happen until "after there will be a great falling away first; and "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". Satan must be revealed in his role as the Antichrist first, before that seventh trumpet can sound, the last trumpet.

The time, or day, John was taken to was beyond our time frame, however we are living in the generation that will see it come to pass, and live through what John saw and lived, while in the Spirit. There is only one day that is called "The Day of the Lord" in all the Scriptures.

Isaiah 2:12 "For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low."

This is the day that our Lord returns. This is the day "God's cup of wrath" is poured out upon His enemies. So John was taken in the Spirit to the last day of this flesh period, before the start of the Millennium. If you are still in your flesh body, that day hasn't happened yet, and it is still future to us.

Every verse that you read in Revelation from this verse to the end of chapter twenty two, will be viewed from the Lord's day, either looking backwards or forwards a short period of time. If you don't come to that point of time in your understanding with John, the rest of what he is saying just will not make sense.

revelation1

 

[Dorothy Mae]

INHO the destruction of the people 400 years before Jesus began the end of the covenant.

But it didn’t. They went back to the land, rebuilt the city, rebuilt the temple and continued all the Mosaic covenant practices. It continued unabated until 70 AD.

The destruction of the temple ended the physical side of the covenant.

What ended 400 years before?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The very name of the Book means to reveal , so yes it's not a mystery ,ty. I will just share the below as well ,from your point of when it was written

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

This verse is the key to understanding the book of Revelation. Without a clear and full understanding of it, the entire book will just not make sense. The sequence of the order will seem strange.

"I"; this is John speaking and telling us where he was. "I was in the Spirit", not in his flesh body; "on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet". John is taken forward in time, "in the Spirit", to the day of the Lord. The "Day of the Lord" is not referring to Sunday or Saturday. This is the same "Day of the Lord" Paul speaks about in I Thessalonians 5:2, as "coming as a thief in the night". Later in II Thessalonians 2:2-3 Paul makes it clear that at the "Day of the Lord" Christ's return will not happen until "after there will be a great falling away first; and "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". Satan must be revealed in his role as the Antichrist first, before that seventh trumpet can sound, the last trumpet.

Then the beginning makes no sense as those to whom it was written would never understand it. Jesus said repeatedly “soon” and it actually happened shortly after that letter was sent. I know your position well and it has a lot of holes, the first being it didn’t happen to them at all and so wasn’t a book they needed to understand yet Jesus said it was on both accounts.

The time, or day, John was taken to was beyond our time frame, however we are living in the generation that will see it come to pass, and live through what John saw and lived, while in the Spirit. There is only one day that is called "The Day of the Lord" in all the Scriptures.

That is your position. They thought it would be soon and it did happen to them and the events they saw fit perfectly into the description in Revelation and Matthew 24.

Isaiah 2:12 "For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low."

This is the day that our Lord returns.

Where does that verse say the Lord returns specifically?

This is the day "God's cup of wrath" is poured out upon His enemies.

His enemies were those who murdered him and his servants. The parable He told lays that out. But who are his enemies today who do sin on that level to his own?

So John was taken in the Spirit to the last day of this flesh period, before the start of the Millennium. If you are still in your flesh body, that day hasn't happened yet, and it is still future to us.

Every verse that you read in Revelation from this verse to the end of chapter twenty two, will be viewed from the Lord's day, either looking backwards or forwards a short period of time. If you don't come to that point of time in your understanding with John, the rest of what he is saying just will not make sense.

The book makes sense to me and many others and we don’t see it from that point of view. How do you make sense of “what will soon take place” when it hasn’t happened for 2000+ years?

Thanks for participating even if we disagree.

D

 

[Dorothy Mae]

https://christianforums.net/threads/revelation-chapter-17.85076/post-1697199

Vaccine, I would recommend you to read through Stormcrow's posts in the link I provided. I found them to be very helpful.

Revelation was written around 65 AD and couldn’t have been written later both from historical references and the internal testimony. The temple was still standing, for example. I, too, can provide a link that establishes this but I prefer discussions with people not launching links.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Being Jewish .there are ways I can verify my ancestry ,one is and the most effective is dna testing .it won't give you a tribe but this was used to verify claims.tish ma bav didn't purge all Jews in judea some remained these are compared to all Jews ,few differences.


I can trace my lineage to crimea Russia on birth certificates only ,going two centuries back .

Interesting as there is a claim that most of the Jews in Israel come from European converts, not the middle eastern people.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

for_his_glory
Too many threads with Revelation 1

I repent 1000 year only.

eddif

Only one looks at the word “soon” and “God gave him to show his servants what must take place” seeing those words as meaning what they always mean. So far the others say “soon” means “not for a very long time” and “what must soon take place” means something they needn’t understand at all. In that position nothing happened soon and they couldn’t possibly have seen what God wanted them to see.

 

[Vaccine]

https://christianforums.net/threads/revelation-chapter-17.85076/post-1697199

Vaccine, I would recommend you to read through Stormcrow's posts in the link I provided. I found them to be very helpful.

Thanks I didn't know that's how the lineage of all the tribes of Israel were lost, with the destruction of the temple. Good stuff!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Thanks I didn't know that's how the lineage of all the tribes of Israel were lost, with the destruction of the temple. Good stuff!

The records were in the temple which means the Levitical priesthood is impossible to fulfill. Spelled the end of that age.

 

[jasonc]

Interesting as there is a claim that most of the Jews in Israel come from European converts, not the middle eastern people.

The kazari jew theory .genetic tests do wonders .they never left and it wasn't the Jews in Europe who asked the u.n to allow a state but the ones who never left .


The problem ,as I was a preterist once ,is that the church fathers never spoke that way .
See Justin the martyr and others on end times .majority were pre mil .

Another thing is .

It's a pick game to play that ..soon mean soon.but these things soon will come to pass but not revelation 20?
That's why some but not all preterist go into that heresy of revalation Is spiritual.

I don't quite agree with futurism but we'll bring Jewish there is yearning for that land .my brother ,my self and many Jews who do believe can't ignore .

The last book is not so easy to fit into one box. If pushed into more amil then anything .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The kazari jew theory .genetic tests do wonders .they never left and it wasn't the Jews in Europe who asked the u.n to allow a state but the ones who never left .

The Jews in Europe went there in large numbers.

The problem ,as I was a preterist once ,is that the church fathers never spoke that way .

I heard they did and it was even in Bibles that Matthew 24 was fulfilled when the temple was destroyed. The whole rapture theory was invented by Darby and was not heard of before and still mainly an American theology.

See Justin the martyr and others on end times .majority were pre mil .

You need to prove that because I heard the opposite.

Another thing is .

It's a pick game to play that ..soon mean soon.but these things soon will come to pass but not revelation 20?

Why not? Soon is very shortly but as in all prophetic books, not every word is soon. Read Isaiah, Jeremiah…some events happened soon after being written and some millennia later.

That's why some but not all preterist go into that heresy of revalation Is spiritual.

Can you explain that?

I don't quite agree with futurism but we'll bring Jewish there is yearning for that land .my brother ,my self and many Jews who do believe can't ignore .

Doesn’t change anything, you’re personal longing. Besides, you can move there. If you long for Israel, go there.

The last book is not so easy to fit into one box. If pushed into more amil then anything .

One needs a good knowledge of history to understand it.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I don't quite agree with futurism but we'll bring Jewish there is yearning for that land .my brother ,my self and many Jews who do believe can't ignore .

If you yearn to be in the land promised to Christ, then why would you chose to be in exile. I think if I were Jewish and could pass their tests for aliyah, I would chose to return to the land and suffer as Christ suffered. For me it would be a great honor to be a watchman and warn Israel for its coming doom, and suffer for it as Christ did.
Problem is, is I'm not Jewish so if I break the laws they would not Inprison me or scourge me. They would just send me back into exile. If I were an Israeli, then they would send me to prison.

 

[jasonc]

The Jews in Europe went there in large numbers.

I heard they did and it was even in Bibles that Matthew 24 was fulfilled when the temple was destroyed. The whole rapture theory was invented by Darby and was not heard of before and still mainly an American theology.

You need to prove that because I heard the opposite.

Why not? Soon is very shortly but as in all prophetic books, not every word is soon. Read Isaiah, Jeremiah…some events happened soon after being written and some millennia later.

Can you explain that?

Doesn’t change anything, you’re personal longing. Besides, you can move there. If you long for Israel, go there.

One needs a good knowledge of history to understand it.

God himself ,well besides preterism as a thought didn't exist until the Catholics cane up with it .

1200s.

Most Jews fled,these are four mane groups and genetically little difference .they seldom marry gentiles rarely.

 

[jasonc]

Historic Premillennialism: Taking the Long View | Christian History Magazine

Christian History Institute (CHI) provides church history resources and self-study material and publishes the quarterly Christian History Magazine. Our aim is to make Christian history enjoyable and applicable to the widest possible audience.

christianhistoryinstitute.org

Justin disciple of Polycarp,John's disciple ,why long before and teach the third temple of John didn't believe that

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God himself ,well besides preterism as a thought didn't exist until the Catholics cane up with it .

1200s.

You are certainly making that up. The christians in the first century saw the armies around Jerusalem and KNEW that was the fulfillment of the prophesies in Matthew 24. They KNEW Revelation was for them and left before they would suffer. The temple was destroyed as Jesus said. Those who pierced him literally saw the judgement of God on them. The first century KNEW that was what Jesus meant, no question.

Now the Resurrection was not expected, that is, the second coming was not what was prophesied then. Those are very separate events and the second hasn’t happened. The apostles creed, a middle ages statement of faith says Jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead. That’s the Resurrection.

Most Jews fled,these are four mane groups and genetically little difference .they seldom marry gentiles rarely.

Historically gentile communities converted to Judaism. It’s a fact. No blood relationship to Abraham.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Historic Premillennialism: Taking the Long View | Christian History Magazine

Christian History Institute (CHI) provides church history resources and self-study material and publishes the quarterly Christian History Magazine. Our aim is to make Christian history enjoyable and applicable to the widest possible audience.

christianhistoryinstitute.org

Justin disciple of Polycarp,John's disciple ,why long before and teach the third temple of John didn't believe that

I have no idea what you are trying to say.