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Russia and Israel, now what?

God will use the future Temple for His prophesized purpose of establishing the Throne of the Lord on Mount Zion to take charge of the earth:

Unchecked Copy Box
Psa 2:6-8
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.



God has declared that at that future time the " Throne Of The Lord " will sit in Jerusalem, in place of the Ark Of The Covenant.
The Ark having been in the Temple , in the Holy of Holies .
This same place the Future site of the "Throne of the Lord " will sit & that all the nations of the world will be drawn to during this period.
God said it and He meant it.

Jer 3:16
And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.
Unchecked Copy Box

Jer 3:17
At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
Yes, I know that theology. But isn’t it a stretch to say the sacrifice was “taken away” when really the temple and priests were taken away?
 
Russia has more gas. Belgium is not nuclear, closer and defenseless. Israel is nuclear. You can say all
if these things but no nation has Israel in the cross-hairs for what they possess. They just don’t.
Israel is in the crosshairs just because they exist .
 
Yes, I know that theology. But isn’t it a stretch to say the sacrifice was “taken away” when really the temple and priests were taken away?
It's never been a concern of mine.
Much more intriguing to me is the Ark Of The Covenant's leaving the building and how that corresponded with Glory of God leaving the building .
The sacrifice and any other activity of the Temple would be ancillary to that event .
We know the Glory of God had left the building by the time Jesus appeared as he declared it had been turned into a "Den of Thieves "


Luk 19:46
Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
 
It's never been a concern of mine.
Much more intriguing to me is the Ark Of The Covenant's leaving the building and how that corresponded with Glory of God leaving the building .
The sacrifice and any other activity of the Temple would be ancillary to that event .
We know the Glory of God had left the building by the time Jesus appeared as he declared it had been turned into a "Den of Thieves "


Luk 19:46
Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
When do you think the Glory left the building? The Ark disappeared when Jeremiah hid it before the Dispersion.
 
Israel is in the crosshairs just because they exist .
Only futurists think this. No nations do except for a few weak muslims who lose every battle with them. But a certain theology insists it must be so. Best not listen to the news. Russia, for example, wants the Ukraine, not Israel.
 
Impossible. John didn’t write his work at 95 years old. He had to be carried to church and could only speak a few words, love one another.

Of course it is possible. The apostle John was exiled to the island of Patmos by Dormitian, Emperor of Rome.
No, he was exiled in his 60s around when Peter and Paul were killed under Nero. Even futurists have to admit there’s no evidence Domitian heavily persecuted Christians. Certainly didn’t send a weak 95 year old unable to walk.
Domitian was Emperor of Rome from 14 September 81 – 18 September 96 - Ad 81 to 96. What matters is the Truth, do you agree?
No, Nero did this.
The source is the text itself.

Luke 21:24 is not the source of 3 1/2 years, the text doesn't confirm what you are saying, it is not the source, absolutely.
The text is Jesus telling John he would still minister. Impossible at 95 for John.
Ah now I know your view.
No , you don't.
Yes I do.
You’re fooling yourself. Of course you wanted to make objections to what I wrote. Reminds me of wondering who writes that she doesn’t want to teach history then quotes reams of Catholic history doctrine.
No I'm not fooling myself, neither being fooling by the content of your posts.
You said you don’t want to oppose and then go on opposing.
John was in his 60s and had decades of ministry left. That’s why he was told what he was told.
You have not showed any proof in all you have written, only kicks.
What proof have you shown?I gave to the texts. The texts speaks of the temple which was still standing.
It is the truth. At 95 John couldn’t walk or talk much. Why is that horrible? He was OLD!! How many of us expect to be 95? And they had a harder life. Why is it horrible?
John was in heaven when the sealed book was opened by JESUS. What you say about John is foolish, and a bad testimony of the man of GOD, one of the twelve apostles.
So you think he was dead when he received the Revelation? Why is saying John was95 a”bad” testimony? Why is it bad to be 95?

Dispensation is horrible which destroys hope telling people horrible times are coming. But the silliest is the temple will be rebuilt so it can be destroyed or that non-Jews will come and stomp on it for no reason at all…a nuclear power will allow itself to be stomped upon!

The Dispensation of Grace is not horrible. But even JESUS, the King, left very clear, saying: Mat.25:40-41and 46:
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Ah, you simply change the topic. We were talking eschatology.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Many will be CURSED -by JESUS-
in the Judgment Seat of Christ)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Changing the topic.
 
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For my two bits...

I don't make any prophecies about who will do what. The Bible does that.
Now if Russia completely falls apart and the Bible says and army from the North will do the damage.... then I believe an army from the North will arise.
Danger comes from locking prophecy into a rigid framework.
I may have strong feelings as to who may be what in the Revelation... but I try hard to state it as opinion, and not fact.
If I do say it is a fact... I better have some impressive facts to back it up.
 
I have a question for futurists. Since it was commonly believed that the Russian “bear” would march down and attack Israel bringing on Armageddon, do you still think that in light of Russia being unable to attack even little Kiev?

It’s obvious to all that Russia has the second best army in the Ukraine but otherwise not even a threat except in lobbing bombs on its neighbors. No way is it even going to take on Israel, a nuclear nation with maybe the best army in the world (certainly up there.)

So what nation do you see today as marching down to Israel to surround it so the world can end and Jesus come and take over? (I hope I didn’t offend in my choice of words. I tried to be neutral and I am sincerely asking.)
Gog and Magog (Noah's Grandson) likely include the nations around Russia, Turkey and even Iran.
2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 "and say,`Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal.
4 "I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords.
5 "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet;
6 "Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops-- many people are with you. (Ezek. 38:2-6 NKJ)

Its not likely Russia remains incompetent after the Ukraine debacle. Like any military they learn from experience. The US military is expert because its always at war somewhere.

The "King of the North" Antichrist won't consider Gog and Magog unbeatable, in fact he will be marshaling his forces to attack Gog and Magog when God Himself powerfully destroys them not only in Isarel, but also the coastland countries where they felt safe:



44 "But news from the east and the north shall trouble him; therefore he shall go out with great fury to destroy and annihilate many.
45 "And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him.
(Dan. 11:44-45 NKJ)

18 "And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel," says the Lord GOD, "that My fury will show in My face.
19 "For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken:`Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel,
20 `so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.'
21 "I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains," says the Lord GOD. "Every man's sword will be against his brother.
22 "And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
23 "Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the LORD."' (Ezek. 38:18-23 NKJ)

NKJ Ezekiel 39:1 "And you, son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say,`Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal;
2 "and I will turn you around and lead you on, bringing you up from the far north, and bring you against the mountains of Israel.
3 "Then I will knock the bow out of your left hand, and cause the arrows to fall out of your right hand.
4 "You shall fall upon the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops and the peoples who are with you; I will give you to birds of prey of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 "You shall fall on the open field; for I have spoken," says the Lord GOD.
6 "And I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in security in the coastlands. Then they shall know that I am the LORD.
7 "So I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not let them profane My holy name anymore. Then the nations shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. (Ezek. 39:1-7 NKJ)

 
Gog and Magog (Noah's Grandson) likely include the nations around Russia, Turkey and even Iran.
2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 "and say,`Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal.
4 "I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords.
5 "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet;
6 "Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops-- many people are with you. (Ezek. 38:2-6 NKJ)

Its not likely Russia remains incompetent after the Ukraine debacle. Like any military they learn from experience. The US military is expert because its always at war somewhere.

The "King of the North" Antichrist won't consider Gog and Magog unbeatable, in fact he will be marshaling his forces to attack Gog and Magog when God Himself powerfully destroys them not only in Isarel, but also the coastland countries where they felt safe:



44 "But news from the east and the north shall trouble him; therefore he shall go out with great fury to destroy and annihilate many.
45 "And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him.
(Dan. 11:44-45 NKJ)

18 "And it will come to pass at the same time, when Gog comes against the land of Israel," says the Lord GOD, "that My fury will show in My face.
19 "For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken:`Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel,
20 `so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence. The mountains shall be thrown down, the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.'
21 "I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains," says the Lord GOD. "Every man's sword will be against his brother.
22 "And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
23 "Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the LORD."' (Ezek. 38:18-23 NKJ)

NKJ Ezekiel 39:1 "And you, son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say,`Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal;
2 "and I will turn you around and lead you on, bringing you up from the far north, and bring you against the mountains of Israel.
3 "Then I will knock the bow out of your left hand, and cause the arrows to fall out of your right hand.
4 "You shall fall upon the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops and the peoples who are with you; I will give you to birds of prey of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.
5 "You shall fall on the open field; for I have spoken," says the Lord GOD.
6 "And I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in security in the coastlands. Then they shall know that I am the LORD.
7 "So I will make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel, and I will not let them profane My holy name anymore. Then the nations shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. (Ezek. 39:1-7 NKJ)

Thanks for your response. So you’re sticking to Russia being named there desire the obvious problems. Well, that is at least an answer to my question!
 
then I believe an army from the North will arise.
Aholibah (Jerusalem) - Headquarter of the Kingdom of Judah - two tribes - Judah and Benjamin - Kingdom of South

Aholah (Samaria) - Headquarter of the Kingdom of Israel - 10 tribes - Kingdom of North - (10 tribes-10 horns-Dan.7:7)
 
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Armageddon, Harmageddon, Mageddon known in a few ways of different spellings, but being a city called Megiddo found in the Jezreel Valley between Nazareth and Jerusalem being a place of troops, or an assembly of troops, or a gathering of troops; or a mountain assembly of troops, or a mountain rendezvous of troops, or a mountain gathering of troops.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Have you ever considered the war of Gog and Magog is the same as the battle of Armageddon as we study Ezekiel 38:1-6 which actually names all who will come against Israel in the end of days being Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands. In this battle, this Gog-Magog War, this Armageddon battle, is a different type of battle from any other ones found in scripture including the king of the north and south in Daniel 11. Within this battle the first six trumpets of God's wrath will be poured out into the world, Ezekiel 38:17-19, as we read in Rev 8:6 being the first trumpet sounding that takes us to the seventh trumpet of God's great wrath in Rev 11:15-19 and the timing of the son of perdition during the time of the seventh trumpet that promises peace and safety if all will take the mark of this beast, 2Thessalonians 4:1-12; Rev 13.

Ezekiel 38-39 calls this the battle of Gog and Magog and Rev 16:12-16 the place called Armageddon. This all happens before the return of Christ, before Satan is bound for a time, or before that of the Millennium.

The terms “king of the north” and “king of the south” were used in Daniel 11:5-35 to describe the rulers to the north and south of Palestine. The two major powers that existed to the south and north of Jerusalem after the death of Alexander the Great were Egypt to the south (with its kings referred to as Ptolemy) and Syria to the north (with its kings referred to as Seleucus or Antiochus).

The prophecy in Daniel 11:5-31 then documents the historical interactions between the king of the South and the king of the North.

Next, this prophecy seems to include the story of the Maccabees, a Jewish family that led the resistance against Antiochus and his successors because of their efforts to force the Jewish people to accept pagan Greek practices (verses 32-39).

The reference to “the time of the end” in verse 35 is thought by some to be a reference to the time just before Christ returns. We should also understand that it might simply be a reference to the close of the Maccabean time of testing. Or it may also be that this passage is dual referring to the time of the Maccabees and beyond.

Verses 35-39 seem to describe some actions by Antiochus during the time of the Maccabees, and they also serve as a forerunner of actions that will be taken by the beast power that will exist just before Jesus Christ’s return to earth. These powers are that of Satan who has worked within all four Empires being that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire.
I tend to agree with you. Troops from any country can be moved closer to any nation
(Troop build up on foreign soil). When the marching takes place, the nationality of the troops is announced. Do they literally March all the way? Could be, but not really necessary. Rivers dried up can increase the chance.

Spiritual forces dried up a sea area for Israel. Climate change does wonders. Massive explosives (magic arts) can change river courses.

If ground is men’s hearts, then marches do not have to be exactly literal.

eddif
 

China’s Growing Role in the Middle East​

May 11, 2022,

Russia's recently minted, & mutually pledged alliance with the communist chinese, who happen to possess the world's largest freestanding army, along with China's increasing involvement with Israel's regional terrorist neighbors such as Iran, would all factor into an all out attack in my opinion .


United front: Understanding China and Russia’s deepening alliance​

I appreciate your answer and this does address the question I raise. I will honor your reading my question and answering by just letting your view stand unchallenged. I asked what your side thinks and you answered that, sufficiently and clearly without pages of cut and paste scripture that have no bearing on the answer.
 
Is that a bad thing? And I’m not talking down Americans. I’m sorry some are so poorly educated that they don’t know common rules of written communication so that others can understand what the author intends. Let’s move on.
i am moving on alright . you want to talk down to me and any one else who dont suit your British way . btw your sorry alright. just remember it was uneducated people that gave you your liberty
 
Those who wrote about John said at 90 he couldn’t walk. So those stories of those who didn’t suffer that in old age don’t count. John couldn’t walk. That’s a fact, What others could do doesn’t matter.

It’s amazing to me when people refer to what SOME could do as though that has a baring on what another could do. That Adam lived 100s of years has no impact whatsoever of how long John lived.
Can you provide those articles that man wrote about John? Thank you as I never heard of them before.
 
"In his commentary on Galatians 6:10, Jerome tells a famous story of "blessed John the evangelist" in extreme old age at Ephesus. He used to be carried into the congregation in the arms of his disciples and was unable to say anything except,

"Little children, love one another."

At last, wearied that he always spoke the same words, they asked: "Master, why do you always say this?"

"Because," he replied, "it is the Lord's command, and if this only is done, it is enough."3 "


It is certainly easy to think that a 90 old man could not be traveling ministering and if it were so, it would have been remarkable and noted instead of the notes that he could no longer walk or talk much. This a very strong argument in favor of the dating of Revelation in the 60s when John was in his 60s. It is a stretch to think he was not frail in his 9th decade.
Thank you for sharing that with me I will have to give this more study when I get time to look into it, but this is not relevant to this thread so I don't want to take it off topic.
 
This thread is not about the Apostle John and all post on this will be deleted as being off topic.
 
We are likely at the end as only one poster, WIP, answered the question worth discussing. Everyone else had fanciful ideas on how Russia can still march to Israel and be a threat despite them being unable to march to Kiev or even hold the real-estate they already took and on their own borders solving transport needs. Or alternatively we got a long list of scriptures that have no bearing on the question (yawn) or descriptions ignoring the current reality of the status of Russian aggression capabilities. There are some who like to cheery pick current events that "match" their eschatology but when those events speak totally against their eschatology, those are ignored. Don't confuse me with the truth of what is happening in Russia, I have already made up my mind.
 
Hi Dorothy Mae
I have a question for futurists. Since it was commonly believed that the Russian “bear” would march down and attack Israel bringing on Armageddon, do you still think that in light of Russia being unable to attack even little Kiev?

It’s obvious to all that Russia has the second best army in the Ukraine but otherwise not even a threat except in lobbing bombs on its neighbors. No way is it even going to take on Israel, a nuclear nation with maybe the best army in the world (certainly up there.)

So what nation do you see today as marching down to Israel to surround it so the world can end and Jesus come and take over? (I hope I didn’t offend in my choice of words. I tried to be neutral and I am sincerely asking.)

I think one thing we need to consider is that God's word is never wrong and it does pretty clearly describe that in the last days there will be some armies from the 'north' involved. Nowhere in the Scriptures does it mention Russia, but of course, the obvious deduction, since Russia is the biggest nation to the north and also basically against God as far as the government is concerned, is the best choice.

However, the days spoken of in the Scriptures, that you are referencing aren't here yet. Consider this scenario. Russia is getting walloped in Ukraine. Now a nation the size of Russia is licking its wounds and embarrassed by all the failures of its military. What would a nation, as powerful as Russia do? Well, the embarrassment to Russia may likely be the very impetus that pushes the nation to begin a military improvement and build up campaign. In 50 years, Russia may have a pretty powerful military BECAUSE of the failure of their current conflict with Ukraine.

In 50 years, yes, Russia may have formed an alliance with a number of Israel's northern neighbors and many in the Middle East and then comes the great armies and the war of Armageddon.

So, it's just a possible scenario, but it may be that God has allowed or even instigated this conflict in Ukraine for the very purpose of providing Russia an impetus to begin to take its place in the final days. According to the Scriptures, God called King Nebudchudnezzar to overtake Israel. It was His plan that Israel suffer for their disobedience and He used the nation and leadership of Babylon to accomplish that task. We also see that in some nations the hate for Israel is growing. That's likely to continue until we get to a tipping point that brings on the scenario laid out for us in the Scriptures.

The Scriptures tell us that as we go forward in time, the love of most will grow cold. The Scriptures tell us that there will come a time that the whole world rises up against Jesus and his armies. As I understand it, this won't be like we all go to bed one night and wake up the next day and 'poof' all these Scriptural prophecies are being fulfilled. No, I believe that it will be a slow and gradual process. Just as we see in the U.S. today. We are becoming a nation of haters. There is now an entire political party that is pushing an agenda of hate and anger. That's going to have consequences down the road and I'm assured it won't be good.

We have gotten to a point where elections are becoming increasingly acrimonious. There is soooo much hate and anger between our two top political parties that people in government positions fear violence being perpetrated against them by a small cadre that believes that because their side didn't win, they have the 'right' to do violence against them.
One of our recent leaders is even doing his very best to keep this fire stoked and roaring. Trust me, it isn't going to turn better, but likely get far worse. The love of most is growing cold and will grow much colder, I believe.

I was reading again yesterday of all the wars and rumors of war that are currently swirling upon the earth. That was one of the signs given to us by Jesus. So, I think we should stop and consider that some of the events we see happening upon the earth right now are being accomplished to get us to the day of Jesus' return, but that may yet be a few hundred years away. So, we're going to live through this promise of God that the love of most is growing cold and there are in fact many wars and a plethora of rumors of war.

For the believer, these are signs that God's promises and prophecies are true. But don't be surprised if Russia doesn't fix its military problems and begins to show some dominance, militarily, in their efforts.

God bless
Ted
 
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