The CASINO doctrine

[Free]

Excellent. This is why Paul said, "Knowing this (the Gospel) that the law is not made for the righteous man (Christians) but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for homosexuals, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine" 1 Timothy 1:9-10.

1Ti 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, (ESV)

"Knowing this" is not referring to the gospel. It is first connected to the "one" mentioned in verse 8 and clearly refers to what everything that follows.

And here is what follows in chapter 2:

1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.
...
1Ti 2:8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
1Ti 2:9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,
1Ti 2:10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Chapter 3:

Ti 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
1Ti 3:3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
1Ti 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
1Ti 3:5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
1Ti 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.
1Ti 3:9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
1Ti 3:13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Chapter 4:

1Ti 4:7 Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness;
1Ti 4:8 for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
1Ti 4:9 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
1Ti 4:11 Command and teach these things.
1Ti 4:12 Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.
1Ti 4:13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.
1Ti 4:14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you.
1Ti 4:15 Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress.
1Ti 4:16 Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Chapter 5:

1Ti 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,
1Ti 5:2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.
1Ti 5:3 Honor widows who are truly widows.
1Ti 5:4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God.
1Ti 5:5 She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day,
1Ti 5:6 but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives.
1Ti 5:7 Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach.
1Ti 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
1Ti 5:9 Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband,
1Ti 5:10 and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work.
1Ti 5:11 But refuse to enroll younger widows, for when their passions draw them away from Christ, they desire to marry
1Ti 5:12 and so incur condemnation for having abandoned their former faith.
1Ti 5:13 Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house, and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not.
1Ti 5:14 So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, manage their households, and give the adversary no occasion for slander.
1Ti 5:15 For some have already strayed after Satan.
1Ti 5:16 If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are truly widows.
1Ti 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”
1Ti 5:19 Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
1Ti 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
1Ti 5:21 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.
1Ti 5:22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure.
1Ti 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)
1Ti 5:24 The sins of some people are conspicuous, going before them to judgment, but the sins of others appear later.
1Ti 5:25 So also good works are conspicuous, and even those that are not cannot remain hidden.

 

[Free]

Chapter 6:

1Ti 6:1 Let all who are under a yoke as bondservants regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled.
1Ti 6:2 Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these things.
1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,
1Ti 6:4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,
...
Ti 6:11 But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
1Ti 6:13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession,
1Ti 6:14 to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
...
1Ti 6:17 As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy.
1Ti 6:18 They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
1Ti 6:19 thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,”
1Ti 6:21 for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. Grace be with you.

(All ESV.)

Every chapter in 1 Timothy contains rules and commands for believers. And why? Paul tells Timothy that holding to the teaching "will save both yourself and your hearers" (4:16), that it will keep believers "above reproach" (5:7), and that it "accords with godliness" (6:3). Even more than that, that those who reject the sound teachings that Paul has just espoused, "some have swerved from the faith."

 

[Charlie24]

Faith is a noun.

Believe is a verb.

When the Scripture says, as it often does, "and they that heard believed ," what does that mean?

Is that not having faith in Christ? When used in the same context, believe and faith are interchangeable.

 

[JLB]

When the Scripture says, as it often does, "and they that heard believed ," what does that mean?

Believed what?


To be saved one must believe and therefore obey the Gospel.


Example:


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


Repent is the command of the Gospel that must be obeyed in order for salvation to occur.

Repent means turn to God.

The way we turn to God, in which we turn away from Satan as our lord, is to confess Jesus as Lord.


Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we believe and therefore obey the Gospel.



JLB

 

[Fastfredy0]

Romans 7:4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God
Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace."

Reading through this thread I think the crux of the matter is: What is meant by "you are not under law"?

I agree with Free who has the patience of Job to list so many laws that we are responsible to obey. So to say 'you are not under law' does not mean that the law does not apply to you.

So what does "you are not under law" mean. It means that because we died and were resurrected in Christ by imputation our destiny is determined by Grace rather than the law; so "you are not under law" means we are now free from the dreadful struggle to keep the law, with a view to winning the favour of God. Rather we are under Grace not the Law in regards to winning God's favor. We still struggle to obey the many commands of God, but God's favor to Christians is not determined by keeping the law.

Aside: John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not
see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Those who do not obey the law (a subjective statement) to a debatable degree show themselves to not be Christians which is not to say Christians that obey the law (a subjective statement) to a debatable degree are saved by their obedience; rather, their obedience is the fruit of their faith and the result of the Spirit's and Christ's sanctification.

Good luck

 

[Charlie24]

Believed what?


To be saved one must believe and therefore obey the Gospel.


Example:


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


Repent is the command of the Gospel that must be obeyed in order for salvation to occur.

Repent means turn to God.

The way we turn to God, in which we turn away from Satan as our lord, is to confess Jesus as Lord.


Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we believe and therefore obey the Gospel.



JLB

I'm not sure what you mean by "obeying the Gospel."

The word "believe" includes repenting. Let me show you how Paul puts it.

Eph. 1:13
"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

You hear the Gospel, believe the Gospel, and you are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Paul is including repenting in the word "believe." The repenting takes place in the heart through believing and that's when you are saved.

 

[JLB]

I'm not sure what you mean by "obeying the Gospel."

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8


For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17



Obeying the Gospel means you repent.


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


The way we obey the command of the Gospel to repent is to confess Jesus as Lord.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


When we confess Jesus as our Lord, we are submitting ourselves to Him to obey Him as Lord.


The biblical definition of repent (not man made definition) means to
turn to God (in submission to Him as Lord).


If we are called to “turn to God”, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.

Lord means master or ruler; the one we obey.

If Jesus is not your Lord then Satan is your lord.


This is the Gospel that Jesus commissioned Paul to go and preach to both Jew and Gentile.





JLB

 

[Charlie24]

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8


For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17



Obeying the Gospel means you repent.


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


The way we obey the command of the Gospel to repent is to confess Jesus as Lord.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10


When we confess Jesus as our Lord, we are submitting ourselves to Him to obey Him as Lord.


The biblical definition of repent (not man made definition) means to
turn to God (in submission to Him as Lord).


If we are called to “turn to God”, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.

Lord means master or ruler; the one we obey.

If Jesus is not your Lord then Satan is your lord.


This is the Gospel that Jesus commissioned Paul to go and preach to both Jew and Gentile.





JLB

I think we agree on this but coming from separate angles. I was thinking you were obeying the Gospel by works, I may have been wrong after reading several of your posts.

My angle is this: "obeying the Gospel" is believing the Gospel, the repenting from the heart takes place the very moment one truly believes. There are no works in salvation, it's all about believing which results in the inward repenting that saves us.

Do you agree or disagree?

 

[Robert Pate]

1Ti 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, (ESV)

"Knowing this" is not referring to the gospel. It is first connected to the "one" mentioned in verse 8 and clearly refers to what everything that follows.

And here is what follows in chapter 2:

1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.
...
1Ti 2:8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
1Ti 2:9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,
1Ti 2:10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Chapter 3:

Ti 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
1Ti 3:3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
1Ti 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
1Ti 3:5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
1Ti 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.
1Ti 3:9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
1Ti 3:13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Chapter 4:

1Ti 4:7 Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness;
1Ti 4:8 for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
1Ti 4:9 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
1Ti 4:11 Command and teach these things.
1Ti 4:12 Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.
1Ti 4:13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.
1Ti 4:14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you.
1Ti 4:15 Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress.
1Ti 4:16 Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Chapter 5:

1Ti 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,
1Ti 5:2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.
1Ti 5:3 Honor widows who are truly widows.
1Ti 5:4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God.
1Ti 5:5 She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day,
1Ti 5:6 but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives.
1Ti 5:7 Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach.
1Ti 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
1Ti 5:9 Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband,
1Ti 5:10 and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work.
1Ti 5:11 But refuse to enroll younger widows, for when their passions draw them away from Christ, they desire to marry
1Ti 5:12 and so incur condemnation for having abandoned their former faith.
1Ti 5:13 Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house, and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not.
1Ti 5:14 So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, manage their households, and give the adversary no occasion for slander.
1Ti 5:15 For some have already strayed after Satan.
1Ti 5:16 If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are truly widows.
1Ti 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”
1Ti 5:19 Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
1Ti 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
1Ti 5:21 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.
1Ti 5:22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure.
1Ti 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)
1Ti 5:24 The sins of some people are conspicuous, going before them to judgment, but the sins of others appear later.
1Ti 5:25 So also good works are conspicuous, and even those that are not cannot remain hidden.

There are over 600 laws and rules in the Torah. Why don't you list all of those?

 

[Free]

There are over 600 laws and rules in the Torah. Why don't you list all of those?

Why don't address the passages and answer the few questions I asked, rather than continue to deflect? They're actually very simple, straightforward questions. As soon as you answer them we can move forward with the discussion.

 

[jaybo]

1Ti 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, (ESV)

"Knowing this" is not referring to the gospel. It is first connected to the "one" mentioned in verse 8 and clearly refers to what everything that follows.

And here is what follows in chapter 2:

1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.
...
1Ti 2:8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
1Ti 2:9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,
1Ti 2:10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Chapter 3:

Ti 3:1 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.
1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
1Ti 3:3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
1Ti 3:4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
1Ti 3:5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
1Ti 3:6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.
1Ti 3:9 They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well.
1Ti 3:13 For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

Chapter 4:

1Ti 4:7 Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness;
1Ti 4:8 for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
1Ti 4:9 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance.
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
1Ti 4:11 Command and teach these things.
1Ti 4:12 Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.
1Ti 4:13 Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.
1Ti 4:14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you.
1Ti 4:15 Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress.
1Ti 4:16 Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Chapter 5:

1Ti 5:1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,
1Ti 5:2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity.
1Ti 5:3 Honor widows who are truly widows.
1Ti 5:4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show godliness to their own household and to make some return to their parents, for this is pleasing in the sight of God.
1Ti 5:5 She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day,
1Ti 5:6 but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives.
1Ti 5:7 Command these things as well, so that they may be without reproach.
1Ti 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
1Ti 5:9 Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband,
1Ti 5:10 and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work.
1Ti 5:11 But refuse to enroll younger widows, for when their passions draw them away from Christ, they desire to marry
1Ti 5:12 and so incur condemnation for having abandoned their former faith.
1Ti 5:13 Besides that, they learn to be idlers, going about from house to house, and not only idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying what they should not.
1Ti 5:14 So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, manage their households, and give the adversary no occasion for slander.
1Ti 5:15 For some have already strayed after Satan.
1Ti 5:16 If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are truly widows.
1Ti 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”
1Ti 5:19 Do not admit a charge against an elder except on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
1Ti 5:20 As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
1Ti 5:21 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without prejudging, doing nothing from partiality.
1Ti 5:22 Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, nor take part in the sins of others; keep yourself pure.
1Ti 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)
1Ti 5:24 The sins of some people are conspicuous, going before them to judgment, but the sins of others appear later.
1Ti 5:25 So also good works are conspicuous, and even those that are not cannot remain hidden.

I didn't read your whole post, as I (and I assume most on this forum) already own and read at least one Bible.

However, I did read this: "understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane..,"

Keep on truckin', Free. You might one day understand to whom the law actually applies.

Romans 3:28, "For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law.

 

[jaybo]

Chapter 6:

1Ti 6:1 Let all who are under a yoke as bondservants regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled.
1Ti 6:2 Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these things.
1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,
1Ti 6:4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,
...
Ti 6:11 But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
1Ti 6:13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession,
1Ti 6:14 to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
...
1Ti 6:17 As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy.
1Ti 6:18 They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
1Ti 6:19 thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,”
1Ti 6:21 for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. Grace be with you.

(All ESV.)

Every chapter in 1 Timothy contains rules and commands for believers. And why? Paul tells Timothy that holding to the teaching "will save both yourself and your hearers" (4:16), that it will keep believers "above reproach" (5:7), and that it "accords with godliness" (6:3). Even more than that, that those who reject the sound teachings that Paul has just espoused, "some have swerved from the faith."

Paul, who wrote a lot about Christians being entirely free of the law, DID NOT create a new law.

Romans 7:4-6, "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code."

As a Pharisee, he understood the problems with the law.

Please read my signature below, carefully and with understanding.

 

[Robert Pate]

Why don't address the passages and answer the few questions I asked, rather than continue to deflect? They're actually very simple, straightforward questions. As soon as you answer them we can move forward with the discussion.

The law is not simple. I have heard that there are over 2,000 laws and rules in the Bible. James said that if you fail just one of the commandments, you have failed the whole thing and are guilty of all, James 2:10. If righteousness came by the law or the commandments, then Jesus lived and died in vain. This is why righteousness is by faith and not by the law, Romans 4:3.

 

[Free]

The law is not simple. I have heard that there are over 2,000 laws and rules in the Bible. James said that if you fail just one of the commandments, you have failed the whole thing and are guilty of all, James 2:10. If righteousness came by the law or the commandments, then Jesus lived and died in vain. This is why righteousness is by faith and not by the law, Romans 4:3.

Who is this addressed to? It cannot be a response to anything I have posted, as this has nothing to do with anything that I've posted.

And why do you still not address the the passages I have given or answer the questions I have asked? They are very simple questions an adolescent could answer. Why so much evasion?

 

[jaybo]

Who is this addressed to? It cannot be a response to anything I have posted, as this has nothing to do with anything that I've posted.

And why do you still not address the the passages I have given or answer the questions I have asked? They are very simple questions an adolescent could answer. Why so much evasion?

Hint: it's not all about you!

Robert Pate, nor myself, nor anyone else are required to debate any subject on your terms.

 

[jaybo]

There are over 600 laws and rules in the Torah. Why don't you list all of those?

It's ironic that Free, who keeps pushing the concept of the law applying to Christians, quoted 1 Timothy 1:9.

Here is that section of Paul's letter (in context, with my emphases) "Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately; this means understanding that the law is laid down not for the righteous but for the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who engage in illicit sex, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I was entrusted." 1 Timothy 1:8-11

Now, this clearly cannot apply to Christians. The whole basis of being born again, born of the Spirit, is to be free from the law. As I wrote earlier, the CASINO doctrine concerns "Christians Are Saved In Name Only", i.e., Christians who deny the saving work of Christ and put themselves back under the law. They claim to be saved, but they deny the salvation gained by Christ's sacrifice by putting themselves back under the law!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

 

[Robert Pate]

It's ironic that Free, who keeps pushing the concept of the law applying to Christians, quoted 1 Timothy 1:9.

Here is that section of Paul's letter (in context, with my emphases) "Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately; this means understanding that the law is laid down not for the righteous but for the lawless and disobedient, for the godless and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their father or mother, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who engage in illicit sex, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I was entrusted." 1 Timothy 1:8-11

Now, this clearly cannot apply to Christians. The whole basis of being born again, born of the Spirit, is to be free from the law. As I wrote earlier, the CASINO doctrine concerns "Christians Are Saved In Name Only", i.e., Christians who deny the saving work of Christ and put themselves back under the law. They claim to be saved, but they deny the salvation gained by Christ's sacrifice by putting themselves back under the law!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!

I am not sure that they ever were Christians, 2 Timothy 3:5.