The CURSE OF THE LAW

[Jethro Bodine]

If you take one part of the law you must fulfill it all, or else you are cursed by the law.

IF you are trying to be justified by the law.

The law demands perfect obedience to ALL THE LAW! AND CURSES ALL WHO DO NOT KEEP ITs PERFECT STANDARD.

Justification by the law demands perfection. That is what it takes to be justified by the law, if that's what you are trying to do. That's why it's a damnable offense. It's impossible for mortal man to do that.

Perfection is not the criteria for sanctification--the growing up into the obedience of the lawful requirements of God.

What condemns is trying to be justified by the law, not the effort to please God in an ever-increasing upholding of the law by our faith in Christ. What 'passed away' is the WAY of the law to righteousness, not the righteous requirements of the law. They get upheld in the new WAY of faith in Christ. The method has changed...not the requirements of God that get upheld.

 

[Mitspa]

Gal 3:10-13
For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT CONTINUE IN ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM"

This is the main subject of the book of Galatians. That those who had been freely justified by the grace of God, and given the free gift of righteousness. Had now turned back into the written code, and to attempts to justify themselves by parts of the law.
Pauls point was that if you try to keep any part of the written code, you are subject to keep it all. And in this effort to earn, what God only gives by faith, a man has turned from the blessing of Abraham unto the curse of the law.
Take notice that it is ALL THAT IS WRITTEN- EVERY JOT AND TITTLE!
So this is Pauls point from the begining of this epistle. If any man preach another gospel other than His Gospel, they are ANATHEMA
Those who teach the law and legalism are in fact "anathema" They are the "cursed" children of 2 Pet 2:14

Hope that others will keep the personal attacks to themselves and keep this thread on topic.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The idea was to look at ourselves sheesh

O.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The curse of the law is the result of trying to be justified by works of the law, not the result of pleasing God through our obedience to the requirements of the law through our faith. BIG difference between the two.

Sin does not categorically mean we were trying to be justified by the law. The saint of God is already justified...through faith in Christ. Their sin is the growing pains of growing up in their faith and into the stature of Christ.

 

[Mitspa]

If you take one part of the law you must fulfill it all, or else you are cursed by the law.

IF you are trying to be justified by the law.

The law demands perfect obedience to ALL THE LAW! AND CURSES ALL WHO DO NOT KEEP ITs PERFECT STANDARD.

Justification by the law demands perfection. That is what it takes to be justified by the law, if that's what you are trying to do. That's why it's a damnable offense. It's impossible for mortal man to do that.

Perfection is not the criteria for sanctification--the growing up into the obedience of the lawful requirements of God.

What condemns is trying to be justified by the law, not the effort to please God in an ever-increasing upholding of the law by our faith in Christ. What 'passed away' is the WAY of the law to righteousness, not the righteous requirements of the law. They get upheld in the new WAY of faith in Christ. The method has changed...not the requirements of God that get upheld.

Well if one is justified apart from the law? They are justified!
Now the justified believer cannot be judged by the written code. They are justified by Christ. If one turns back to the written code to judge themself by the written code, they are in fact under the written code. They are cursed.

Now the law and those good things we see in the law are a witness, they have no power over the believer, because they are justified by Christ.
Rom 5:1-2
Rom 5:13
Rom 5:17
Those who receive the abundance of grace and free gift of righteousness shall reign in Life with Christ Jesus.
So how can a "free gift" of righteousness be overturned by the written code? It cannot be!

Paul adresses this same issue in Gal. That those who are justified in grace have fallen from grace, when they return to the written code.

 

[Mitspa]

The curse of the law is the result of trying to be justified by works of the law, not the result of pleasing God through our obedience to the requirements of the law through our faith. BIG difference between the two.

Sin does not categorically mean we were trying to be justified by the law. The saint of God is already justified...through faith in Christ. Their sin is the growing pains of growing up in their faith and into the stature of Christ.

well what did you mean when you quoted 1 John 3:4
For you appeared to be promoting that a believer is in fact justified by the written code, as you have done over and over.
And then you switch back and forth into that one does not need to keep the law to be justified?

So WHAT do you believe? do you keep the written code and its standard?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Have you noticed that I have cited Luke 1:5-6 a half dozen times, but STILL, people seem to think that "no one is righteous, no one can keep the Law"... So much for respect for the Word of God when a manmade doctrine is at stake. Can't knock over the sacred cow, can we...

I have come to the conclusion that there were and possibly are, those you can follow the Law (every jot and tittle) as the scripture you post and as well we see in Job. Yes, Job was before the written Law but that is not here or there as certainly there was already sacrifices, caring for the poor, etc.

Months ago I felt the need to read Job again with hopefully more spiritual eyes than previously and the Holy Spirit did show me some things I had not seen before but until this morning I don't think I had a full revelation of what the verse He had shown me meant. I tied the verse to Job doing works by his own hand, which is clearly a part of it but now I think there is more. Sometimes I am very dense.
Job 40:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

Job was found to be righteous and upright just as those in your Luke scripture. So why did God say this to him. In my blindness I saw this as Job doing these things by this own will and declaring himself righteous but that cannot be the only problem here. God in chapters 38-41 at least is pointing out to Job all the things that He, God, can and does do as the Creator compared to Job as the created . It is in this context that He makes the above statement to Job. If Job can do what the Creator does then God will admit to Job that he can save himself by being righteous as a man can be righteous. God says that he cannot be saved this way even though God Himself found him to be in complete obedience in every way.

We know that it is only by God's grace that we can be saved but what of righteousness unto justification?
Could it be that God's righteous is above the laws that He has given to man? Could it be that only the righteousness of God Himself is enough to save thee?
Could it be that only the Gift of Righteousness (the righteousness of Christ) can save thee? Which is bigger than the Law?

So in conclusion I would agree with your deduction that man can obey the Law, however he would still not be righteous enough for salvation.

Here's my favorite example of an OT saint:

"47 When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.â€" (John 1:47 NIV)

The saints of the OT either had the righteousness of law, or had discovered the then secret and still unveiled truth of God's gift of righteousness--the righteousness David discovered when he found himself facing the death sentence required by the law. I tend to think the righteousness that was commended of the OT saints was the righteousness of faith in God, not the righteousness of the law, but which could be seen in a blameless (not perfect) keeping of the law.

Just my two cents.

 

[Mitspa]

The curse of the law is the result of trying to be justified by works of the law, not the result of pleasing God through our obedience to the requirements of the law through our faith. BIG difference between the two.

Sin does not categorically mean we were trying to be justified by the law. The saint of God is already justified...through faith in Christ. Their sin is the growing pains of growing up in their faith and into the stature of Christ.

so what is the point of this post? That we can pretend to keep the written code? No! if one is looking to the written code of the law, they are seeking to justify themselves by the written code and they are cursed by the law.

Gal 4:21 Do you not hear the law, if one is to judge themselves by the law they must judge themselves by ALL THE LAW AND ACCORDING TO ITS STANDARD.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Well if one is justified apart from the law? They are justified!
Now the justified believer cannot be judged by the written code. They are justified by Christ. If one turns back to the written code to judge themself by the written code, they are in fact under the written code. They are cursed.

Show me where it says this in the Bible. I've shown you where James uses the law to show us how we are to 'judge' ourselves as to whether we are doing right, and whether we, ultimately, have the faith that can can save, or not.

Now the law and those good things we see in the law are a witness, they have no power over the believer, because they are justified by Christ.
Rom 5:1-2
Rom 5:13
Rom 5:17

What is it you say the requirements of the law have no the power to do over the believer?

Those who receive the abundance of grace and free gift of righteousness shall reign in Life with Christ Jesus.
So how can a "free gift" of righteousness be overturned by the written code? It cannot be!

Right. I've been saying all along that the law no longer has authority to condemn the inner man who has been lifted above the condemnation of the law and has been forever declared righteous and perfect in God's sight. But the outer man is still subject to the judgment of the law in regard to the flesh, the outer man:

"8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law (Leviticus 19:15) as lawbreakers." (James 2:8-9 NIV)

How much clearer can it be?

Paul adresses this same issue in Gal. That those who are justified in grace have fallen from grace, when they return to the written code.

...when they return to the written code to be justified:

"4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." (Galatians 5:4 NIV)

You are the victim--like so many countless others in the church--of the indoctrination that misleads people into thinking Paul is teaching that any and all law keeping is a damnable offense. That is ridiculous. He is the very one who said we uphold the law by faith in Christ (Romans 3:31 NIV).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The curse of the law is the result of trying to be justified by works of the law, not the result of pleasing God through our obedience to the requirements of the law through our faith. BIG difference between the two.

Sin does not categorically mean we were trying to be justified by the law. The saint of God is already justified...through faith in Christ. Their sin is the growing pains of growing up in their faith and into the stature of Christ.

so what is the point of this post? That we can pretend to keep the written code?

Who's pretending? When I walk in the Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, long suffering, etc.) I am in fact satisfying the law (Romans 13:8-10 NIV). Paul said it, not me.

What you are doing wrong is only looking at law keeping from the point of view of perfect law keeping for purposes of justification. That is NOT what a person is doing when they are simply walking in the life of the Spirit within them out of love for God in an ever-increasing obedience to him. Why are these two ways of 'keeping' the law not clear to you? Why is law keeping always justification to you? I don't understand your inability to see that God's call to obey him according to the requirements of the law (through the power of the Spirit) can only mean trying to be justified by that obedience.

No! if one is looking to the written code of the law, they are seeking to justify themselves by the written code and they are cursed by the law.

That is only true if in fact that person is seeking to justify themselves by that law keeping. Why is the desire to please God by not stealing, not lying, not coveting, etc., and being sanctified (set apart) more and more to righteous purposes always and categorically equivalent to trying to be justified by that obedience?

Gal 4:21 Do you not hear the law, if one is to judge themselves by the law they must judge themselves by ALL THE LAW AND ACCORDING TO ITS STANDARD.

ONLY if you are trying to be justified by the law. That is when you have to keep all of it perfectly. But the obedience of the saint justified in Christ is a process of ever-increasing obedience to the requirements of God, not an attempt to gain a justification he/she already has.

 

[Mitspa]

Show me where it says this in the Bible. I've shown you where James uses the law to show us how we are to 'judge' ourselves as to whether we are doing right, and whether we, ultimately, have the faith that can can save, or not.




What is it you say the requirements of the law have no the power to do over the believer?



Right. I've been saying all along that the law no longer has authority to condemn the inner man who has been lifted above the condemnation of the law and has been forever declared righteous and perfect in God's sight. But the outer man is still subject to the judgment of the law in regard to the flesh, the outer man:

"8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law (Leviticus 19:15) as lawbreakers." (James 2:8-9 NIV)

How much clearer can it be?

Paul adresses this same issue in Gal. That those who are justified in grace have fallen from grace, when they return to the written code.

...when they return to the written code to be justified:

"4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." (Galatians 5:4 NIV)

You are the victim--like so many countless others in the church--of the indoctrination that misleads people into thinking Paul is teaching that any and all law keeping is a damnable offense. That is ridiculous. He is the very one who said we uphold the law by faith in Christ (Romans 3:31 NIV).

First I have rejected your understanding of James altogether, so you have proved no point but what you have made-up in your own mind.
Are you now again suggesting that we are under the law?
The royal law is not the law of moses.
Or do you believe that it is?

The written code has no power to justifiy or make a charge of
sin against those who are justified by faith in Christ.

And yes I have heard your speech about how you think I am deceived, your opinion has no weight with me.

This is the same stuff over and over again.
1 Tim 1:7

 

[Mitspa]

Jethro you have in fact day after day tried to insist that one must be judged by the written code. Now today in these last post you seem to be in agreement with me? That the law stands only as a witness, it has no power to justifiy nor to make a charge of sin against those who are justified by faith in Christ. Glad you have come aboard to the gospel.

Now to you or anyone else who looks to the written code to justify in any way, you are under the curse of the law.

That is the point and topic of the thread.

I do not believe that you have changed your veiws on the law, but only put another layer of grace upon your legalism.

Maybe if I keep up the pressure, one day you will believe the true gospel?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The curse of the law is the result of trying to be justified by works of the law, not the result of pleasing God through our obedience to the requirements of the law through our faith. BIG difference between the two.

Sin does not categorically mean we were trying to be justified by the law. The saint of God is already justified...through faith in Christ. Their sin is the growing pains of growing up in their faith and into the stature of Christ.

well what did you mean when you quoted 1 John 3:4

You said the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness. I was pointing out that we know what ungodliness is by the law. The grace of God teaches me to say 'no' to the things the law says not to do (and which the Spirit echos), and 'yes' to the things it does want me to do. And this is not for the purpose of being justified, but rather for the purpose of being sanctified, meaning more and more 'set apart' to the holy purpose God called me to.

For you appeared to be promoting that a believer is in fact justified by the written code, as you have done over and over.

Not a chance...at least not in the sense of the word Paul uses when he says no one is justified (made righteous) by works of the law.

And then you switch back and forth into that one does not need to keep the law to be justified?

I've never said--because I do not believe--that a person has to keep the law in order to be justified (made righteous). That is impossible to do. Justification is by having sin guilt removed through the blood of Christ, accessed by our faith in that blood. The blood of Christ is the ONLY thing that can make the inner man clean and guilt free before God. That is the ONLY 'work' that can do that. It stands alone, set apart from any and all other work a person can do to try be justified. But a person does need to keep the law for purposes of sanctification--the setting apart of themselves to the holy purpose God has called them to.

So WHAT do you believe? do you keep the written code and its standard?

WHEN I walk in the Spirit I 'keep' the requirements of the law. When I don't walk in the Spirit I do not keep the requirements of the law. The problem is you can't think any other way but in the way of keeping the requirements of the law to earn a justification of righteousness (leading to salvation).

The point is not whether or not I keep the law in any and all circumstances as a condition of being in Christ. Nobody can do that. The point is I'm in the process of learning to satisfy the requirements of the law (through the grace of God) in all the daily situations of life that faith in Christ (because of the nature of what faith in Christ means) demands. Obedience is the expected and obligatory outcome of faith, not because that's how justification is secured, but because that's what faith does.

The problem you're having, which is not at all uncommon in the church, is you can only understand obedience in the 'all or nothing' requirement of justification. Which causes you to come to the conclusion that you must reject the suggestion that we are to purposely seek to uphold the requirements of the law. To you the only law keeping there is is the law keeping for the purpose of earning salvation. But there is the law keeping that is the expected and obligatory response of the one who has faith in the forgiveness of Christ.

 

[Mitspa]

Now you are the one who commited this sin, and you are the one who acted as if some how you had kept the law.

If temptation is sin then you serve a false Christ.

So, either Christ is false, because he, too, was subject to the temptations of mankind (except you of course), or your doctrine is false. I know...let's flip a coin.

Again Jethro you make harsh charges! and personal attacks.
My point was the point that Jesus made to the pharisee. That one breaks the written code when they look upon a woman to lust. The point is about the standard of the written code! Also that the pharisee "thought" they had kept the written code but was blinded to their own sin.

Now that no man can be justified by the written code of the law, is evident!
That is my point!
That also a curse of blindness is upon those who look to the ministry of death "written and engraved on stones"
Deut 28:28-29

We see the problem is not with the law, the problem is with man and mans flesh. For a carnal man may very well look to the written code and think that he is keeping its standard.
Just as those who thought they had not commited adultry, but according to the true standard of the law, as Jesus taught, they had in fact not kept the standard. For paul wrote that the sin in us deceives us through the written code. This is the blindness of those who look to the Old Testament and to law of moses.
So if one is justified by Christ and is taught righteousness through faith, he only deceives himself by thinking that by the law he can know sin and be taught righteousness.
This is just blindess and the curse of the law.

 

[Mitspa]

But there is the law keeping that is the expected and obligatory response of the one who has faith in the forgiveness of Christ.[/QUOTE]
You see here it is! This is what you have been saying all alone!
That a believer is yet bound to the written code of the law.
Now you have twisted and covered it up, but this is what you believe and teach.
That a believer is obligated to the law. This is false doctrine.

 

[Mitspa]

Lets look at Roms 8:1-4
there is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin condemned sin in the flesh
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit.

Now the term "righteous requirements" of the law is not in the scriptures.
This is not saying that we look to the written code to judge our spiritual walk.
It is saying that the flesh cannot please God, therefore we must walk in the Spirit by faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro you have in fact day after day tried to insist that one must be judged by the written code. Now today in these last post you seem to be in agreement with me?

Nothing's changed. I do not agree with you that the curse of the law is to simply try to uphold it's requirements. That is the argument you have plainly stated and which I and others have shown you from the Bible is entirely false.

The curse of the law is the result of thinking you can be made righteous by the law, not by simply seeking to please God as commanded through the faith that justified us apart from the works of the law.

That the law stands only as a witness, it has no power to justifiy nor to make a charge of sin against those who are justified by faith in Christ. Glad you have come aboard to the gospel.

Nope, not on board with your incomplete gospel. What you're not getting is the law does make a charge...against the outer man...when we don't walk according to the fruit of the Spirit that upholds the law. This has nothing to do with one's right standing before God--the inner man. The law is a witness, but you just don't know that it is a witness AGAINST your flesh when you don't uphold it by the Spirit.

Now to you or anyone else who looks to the written code to justify in any way, you are under the curse of the law.

I've been saying this all along. You seem to be one now who is now acknowledging the particular law keeping that the Bible says condemns--law keeping for the purpose of trying to be justified (made righteous).

I do not believe that you have changed your veiws on the law, but only put another layer of grace upon your legalism.

Nope. Sticking with my same argument. All my posts are available for you to prove that I'm NOT changing what I'm saying.

Maybe if I keep up the pressure, one day you will believe the true gospel?

Maybe if you widen your thinking to acknowledge the law 'keeping' that does judge the believer (just not in regard to salvation itself) you'll see I'm speaking the truth. James plainly says this, but somehow you can't bring yourself to acknowledge it. I suggest it's because you are the victim of a very stubborn and powerful indoctrination that's been in the church for a long time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But there is the law keeping that is the expected and obligatory response of the one who has faith in the forgiveness of Christ.

You see here it is! This is what you have been saying all alone!
That a believer is yet bound to the written code of the law.
Now you have twisted and covered it up, but this is what you believe and teach.
That a believer is obligated to the law. This is false doctrine.

...but not for the purpose of justification, but somehow that's all you can 'hear'.

The believer is in fact commanded to uphold the law...just not for purposes of justification (making themselves righteous in God's sight). That is the law keeping that is forbidden because it results in NOT being justified.

Justifying faith--the faith that saves--has an expected and obligatory outcome, just as going swimming has an expected and obligatory outcome--getting wet. It is expected of those who have truly received the love of God in the forgiveness of sins that they give that same love out to others. Not as a condition for receiving that forgiveness, but as the predictable and expected reaction that being forgiven your sins produces. But it seems all you're capable of understanding is every effort of righteous work means trying to be forgiven, instead of what else it could be--the work that results from having your sins graciously and freely forgiven and which we are to make sure we do not suppress.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...a carnal man may very well look to the written code and think that he is keeping its standard.

So when I love others and don't show favoritism (Lev. 19:15) I'm not really keeping the law, I'm just deceiving myself? James was lying? Really?

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,†you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers." (James 2:8-9 NIV)

Just as those who thought they had not commited adultry, but according to the true standard of the law, as Jesus taught, they had in fact not kept the standard. For paul wrote that the sin in us deceives us through the written code. This is the blindness of those who look to the Old Testament and to law of moses.
So if one is justified by Christ and is taught righteousness through faith, he only deceives himself by thinking that by the law he can know sin and be taught righteousness.
This is just blindess and the curse of the law.

You're doing it again. You're confusing knowledge of sin through the law (Romans 7:7 NIV), and how we fulfill the law (Romans 7:6 NIV). That's why you're not getting this. You think grace means utterly forsaking the existence of the law because just acknowledging what the law requires of God's people is to somehow be trusting in the law to MAKE you righteous.

Your doctrine is actually the one that is blind, and in reality ends up making grace a license to sin, for even you said any and all attempts to 'keep' the law is damnable, and it's hypocritical to even try and then think you are keeping it. That's absurd. I've shown you where the Bible uses the law to instruct us on what we are to do that is right. But somehow you can only interpret that as the WAY we are supposed to do that which it says is the right thing to do. See what I'm saying?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Lets look at Roms 8:1-4
there is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin condemned sin in the flesh
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit.

Now the term "righteous requirements" of the law is not in the scriptures.
This is not saying that we look to the written code to judge our spiritual walk.
It is saying that the flesh cannot please God, therefore we must walk in the Spirit by faith.

How do we know what the 'sin', and the 'righteousness' is that I've emboldened above that Paul is talking about?

Why does agreeing with Romans 7:7 NIV instantly mean a person is trying to be justified by the law that educates us what sin is? I showed you plainly where James gives us examples when he says the law judges us as to whether or not we've really been loving (walking in the Spirit), or not.