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The CURSE OF THE LAW

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mitspa
  • Start date Start date
To bring this thread back on topic, I think it very well is a sign of the curse that one can "think" they are keeping the written code of the law, yet are breaking that same law.

Consider the rich young ruler, who told the Lord he had kept the law from his youth. Now of course this was not true!
So the Lord ask him to sell all and follow Him. What does it show that this man "coveted" his posessions above following God? I think he was breaking a whole mulitude of commandments. To love God above all things, to have no idols. To not covet etc...

But this man so blinded by the law, that he could not see that he was breaking the law. He was cursed unto blindness.
Deu 28:29
 
Now you are the one who commited this sin, and you are the one who acted as if some how you had kept the law.
If temptation is sin then you serve a false Christ.

So, either Christ is false, because he, too, was subject to the temptations of mankind (except you of course), or your doctrine is false. I know...let's flip a coin.
 
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

G3551
From a primary word νέμω nemō (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), generally (regulation), specifically (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle): - law.

This is the Strong's definition of law from the above verse.

Seems the law was important enough to God to bother to put it in our hearts.

Something here is out of whack... ABE loves the Lord BOB loves the Lord. What is the misunderstanding between to 2 views?

ABE is not setting out to make sure he breaks the 'ten' etc. BOB is not saying he saved because he keeps the "ten" etc..... what gives... ?

I see semantics .... No fair trying to figure out who is abe and who is bob...:)





















 
Now you are the one who commited this sin, and you are the one who acted as if some how you had kept the law.
If temptation is sin then you serve a false Christ.

So, either Christ is false, because he, too, was subject to the temptations of mankind (except you of course), or your doctrine is false. I know...let's flip a coin.
Again Jethro you make harsh charges! and personal attacks.
My point was the point that Jesus made to the pharisee. That one breaks the written code when they look upon a woman to lust. The point is about the standard of the written code! Also that the pharisee "thought" they had kept the written code but was blinded to their own sin.

Now that no man can be justified by the written code of the law, is evident!
That is my point!
That also a curse of blindness is upon those who look to the ministry of death "written and engraved on stones"
Deut 28:28-29
 
Mitspa, you have conveniently left out the context of Deuteronomy 28

15 “But it shall come about, if you do not obey the Lord your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

How much worse will it be for those who openly disobey and scorn his word? The ministry of death is the ministry of disobedience and rebellion. Please use that passage in its proper context.
 
Mitspa, you have conveniently left out the context of Deuteronomy 28

15 “But it shall come about, if you do not obey the Lord your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

How much worse will it be for those who openly disobey and scorn his word? The ministry of death is the ministry of disobedience and rebellion. Please use that passage in its proper context.
Of course that is the point! That no man can obey all that is written in book of the law. This is what Paul is saying! Gal 4:21-24 If you take one part of the law you must fulfill it all, or else you are cursed by the law. The law demands perfect obedience to ALL THE LAW! AND CURSES ALL WHO DO NOT KEEP ITs PERFECT STANDARD.
 
Mitspa, you have conveniently left out the context of Deuteronomy 28

15 “But it shall come about, if you do not obey the Lord your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

How much worse will it be for those who openly disobey and scorn his word? The ministry of death is the ministry of disobedience and rebellion. Please use that passage in its proper context.
Of course that is the point! That no man can obey all that is written in book of the law. This is what Paul is saying! Gal 4:21-24 If you take one part of the law you must fulfill it all, or else you are cursed by the law. The law demands perfect obedience to ALL THE LAW! AND CURSES ALL WHO DO NOT KEEP ITs PERFECT STANDARD.
Are you saying Paul has authority over God and his word supersedes the Creator's?

Deuteronomy 30:10-12
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
10 if you obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and soul.

11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’

Do you still stand by the statement? Of course nobody could keep it perfectly except for Jesus.
 
Mitspa, you have conveniently left out the context of Deuteronomy 28

15 “But it shall come about, if you do not obey the Lord your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

How much worse will it be for those who openly disobey and scorn his word? The ministry of death is the ministry of disobedience and rebellion. Please use that passage in its proper context.
Of course that is the point! That no man can obey all that is written in book of the law. This is what Paul is saying! Gal 4:21-24 If you take one part of the law you must fulfill it all, or else you are cursed by the law. The law demands perfect obedience to ALL THE LAW! AND CURSES ALL WHO DO NOT KEEP ITs PERFECT STANDARD.
Are you saying Paul has authority over God and his word supersedes the Creator's?

Deuteronomy 30:10-12
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
10 if you obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and soul.

11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’

Do you still stand by the statement? Of course nobody could keep it perfectly except for Jesus.
I am saying what the NEW TESTAMENT clearly says! That All men will bej judged by Pauls gospel, that if any man or even an angel from heaven preaches another gospel, they are cursed.

That if any man seeks to be justified by any part of the OLD TESTAMENT law or written code, they are a debtor to keep the whole law.
Gal.5:3-6
 
Have you noticed that I have cited Luke 1:5-6 a half dozen times, but STILL, people seem to think that "no one is righteous, no one can keep the Law"... So much for respect for the Word of God when a manmade doctrine is at stake. Can't knock over the sacred cow, can we...


I have come to the conclusion that there were and possibly are, those you can follow the Law (every jot and tittle) as the scripture you post and as well we see in Job. Yes, Job was before the written Law but that is not here or there as certainly there was already sacrifices, caring for the poor, etc.

Months ago I felt the need to read Job again with hopefully more spiritual eyes than previously and the Holy Spirit did show me some things I had not seen before but until this morning I don't think I had a full revelation of what the verse He had shown me meant. I tied the verse to Job doing works by his own hand, which is clearly a part of it but now I think there is more. Sometimes I am very dense.
Job 40:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

Job was found to be righteous and upright just as those in your Luke scripture. So why did God say this to him. In my blindness I saw this as Job doing these things by this own will and declaring himself righteous but that cannot be the only problem here. God in chapters 38-41 at least is pointing out to Job all the things that He, God, can and does do as the Creator compared to Job as the created . It is in this context that He makes the above statement to Job. If Job can do what the Creator does then God will admit to Job that he can save himself by being righteous as a man can be righteous. God says that he cannot be saved this way even though God Himself found him to be in complete obedience in every way.

We know that it is only by God's grace that we can be saved but what of righteousness unto justification?
Could it be that God's righteous is above the laws that He has given to man? Could it be that only the righteousness of God Himself is enough to save thee?
Could it be that only the Gift of Righteousness (the righteousness of Christ) can save thee? Which is bigger than the Law?

So in conclusion I would agree with your deduction that man can obey the Law, however he would still not be righteous enough for salvation.
 
Have you noticed that I have cited Luke 1:5-6 a half dozen times, but STILL, people seem to think that "no one is righteous, no one can keep the Law"... So much for respect for the Word of God when a manmade doctrine is at stake. Can't knock over the sacred cow, can we...


I have come to the conclusion that there were and possibly are, those you can follow the Law (every jot and tittle) as the scripture you post and as well we see in Job. Yes, Job was before the written Law but that is not here or there as certainly there was already sacrifices, caring for the poor, etc.

Months ago I felt the need to read Job again with hopefully more spiritual eyes than previously and the Holy Spirit did show me some things I had not seen before but until this morning I don't think I had a full revelation of what the verse He had shown me meant. I tied the verse to Job doing works by his own hand, which is clearly a part of it but now I think there is more. Sometimes I am very dense.
Job 40:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

Job was found to be righteous and upright just as those in your Luke scripture. So why did God say this to him. In my blindness I saw this as Job doing these things by this own will and declaring himself righteous but that cannot be the only problem here. God in chapters 38-41 at least is pointing out to Job all the things that He, God, can and does do as the Creator compared to Job as the created . It is in this context that He makes the above statement to Job. If Job can do what the Creator does then God will admit to Job that he can save himself by being righteous as a man can be righteous. God says that he cannot be saved this way even though God Himself found him to be in complete obedience in every way.

We know that it is only by God's grace that we can be saved but what of righteousness unto justification?
Could it be that God's righteous is above the laws that He has given to man? Could it be that only the righteousness of God Himself is enough to save thee?
Could it be that only the Gift of Righteousness (the righteousness of Christ) can save thee? Which is bigger than the Law?

So in conclusion I would agree with your deduction that man can obey the Law, however he would still not be righteous enough for salvation.

A man may well think he can "obey the law" this is the "form" of godliness that Christ rejected in the pharisee.

Now no man but Christ, has EVER kept even the first commandment. Only those in whom God imputed righteousness was accounted to have kept that commamdment. So therefore no man is justified by the law.

This is the whole point! That we cannot obey God except through faith in Christ. All other attempts to justify oneself is cursed as an effort of mans flesh. Just as God has cursed the ground from which man was brought, so all flesh and all effforts of the flesh are cursed, and will not be accepted in any way By God.
 
Im sorry but that is exactly what God does, HE JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY. for God made all laws and He decides what is just. Not sure how one could even try to make the point you are seeking to make? The book of Romans stands in complete contrast to your post.


yes, but if there is some spiritual servant/worker who still does spiritual/religious iniquity, how God to deem it for sinless?!

Blessings
 
Now for one to say that they uphold the law and yet are breakers of the law, is lawlessness.
Which are you, an upholder of the law, or a breaker of the law?

If you say an upholder of the law, then you are a hypocritical liar according to your own doctrine. If you say a breaker of the law then you have a faith that James says can not save you. Take your pick.


No as Paul taught in clear terms, one must die to the law, and live not by the standard of the written code but by the standard of faith and love.
The standard of faith and love IS the law...and then some. Or do you want to argue that 'do not covet', 'do not steal', 'do not commit adultery', etc. are NOT the standard of faith and love? I ask this so others can see how wrong what you teach is.


Only when a "born-again" believer accepts that they cannot keep the letter are they free to walk in the Spirit.
...which in turn (walking in the Spirit) upholds the law. That's how we can tell if we have really been walking in the Spirit. There is no such thing as walking in the Spirit that breaks the law, 'do not covet', 'do not steal', etc. Unless you can explain to me how you can walk in the Spirit and violate a moral law of Moses.


For as we see the law "written code" produces sinful desires in the flesh.
For one, the law does not produce sinful desires. It magnifies them. And, for purposes of our discussion, it does that when you seek to be justified by the law, NOT when you uphold the law by faith.


Those who look to the written code are always found to be sinners by that written standard.
Those who walk in the Spirit (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, etc.) have the evidence of upholding the requirements of the law to validate that they are really doing that. But somehow the only 'looking to the written code' you seem to be able to believe exists is the effort of trying to be justified (MADE righteous) by the law.


Thus they are always cursed children as 2 Pet 2:14 says.

"Having eyes full of adultry"
How silly. Not all people who sin are cursed children. What are you when you sin?

Sin can only condemn the inner man when sin is a result of rejecting the blood of Christ that bought them, not when the outer man is weak, but the inner man is still holding fast to the hope of the forgiveness of God in the blood of Christ. The failure of the hypocrites in your favorite passage is their sin of rejecting the blood of Christ (2 Peter 2:1), not simply sinning in weakness. But how could you understand, you who are so strong and not subject to the weakness of temptation and can only see all sin as the attempt to be justified by law keeping.



For the strength of sin, is the law.
Law is the authority of sin to condemn the person outside of Christ. But it can't do that for the person who stands legally guilt free before God (aka, justified) through faith in the blood of Christ. That's what it means to not be 'under the (authority of the) law' anymore.

For those made righteous in God's sight through faith, sin can only bring judgment in regard to the flesh. Somewhere you're going to have to expand your understanding to recognize the difference and stop this ridiculous thinking that all sin is categorically the result of trying to be justified by the law.
 
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Im sorry but that is exactly what God does, HE JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY. for God made all laws and He decides what is just. Not sure how one could even try to make the point you are seeking to make? The book of Romans stands in complete contrast to your post.


yes, but if there is some spiritual servant/worker who still does spiritual/religious iniquity, how God to deem it for sinless?!

Blessings
Well if a believer walks in the flesh, they will in effect reap from the flesh. But those who walk in the Spirit will reap life from the Spirit.
But they ARE NOT JUDGED BY THE LAW OF MOSES. but by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. Any believer who walks in the flesh, is not walking in life. Now no one who is looking to the written code of the law, can be in the spirit.

God has ways to correct His people, and those who know Him know very well He has a rod of correction. But this correction is not to put them back under the yoke of the law, and its curse. It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance, it is the grace of God that teaches us to deny ungodliness.

The law and written code are not for the believer but for the non-believer and the sinner. That they might come to Christ and be saved.
 
Which are you, an upholder of the law, or a breaker of the law?

If you say an upholder of the law, then you are a hypocritical liar according to your own doctrine.

Well I do think you are making more personal attacks and insults! If you would like to obey the rules of the forum? I will be glad to respond to your post.

Please do not break the rules nor take the subject of this thread off track.
 
God made all laws and He decides what is just.
Thus, I can tell if I have acted justly and rightly by if what I do violates his law, or not. That is NOT the same as looking to the law to be justified (MADE righteous).


Well if a believer walks in the flesh, they will in effect reap from the flesh.
What standard shows if I've been walking in the flesh or not?


Any believer who walks in the flesh, is not walking in life. Now no one who is looking to the written code of the law, can be in the spirit.
Not even if it is the requirements of the law that indicate whether I'm really walking in the flesh? That is ridiculous. That's a very misguided and narrow (mis)understanding of the role of law in this New Covenant.


God has ways to correct His people, and those who know Him know very well He has a rod of correction. But this correction is not to put them back under the yoke of the law, and its curse. It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance, it is the grace of God that teaches us to deny ungodliness.
What is ungodliness? What is sin? John tells us plainly:

"Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness." (1 John 3:4 NIV)

The law is how we know what it is we are supposed to uphold through our faith. But you only see that as trying to be justified by the law.


The law and written code are not for the believer but for the non-believer and the sinner.
You don't even know what this means. He's not saying the believer does not need to know what the law says sin is.
 
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

G3551
From a primary word νέμωnemō (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), generally (regulation), specifically (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle): - law.

This is the Strong's definition of law from the above verse.

Seems the law was important enough to God to bother to put it in our hearts.

Something here is out of whack... ABE loves the Lord BOB loves the Lord. What is the misunderstanding between to 2 views?

ABE is not setting out to make sure he breaks the 'ten' etc. BOB is not saying he saved because he keeps the "ten" etc..... what gives... ?

I see semantics .... No fair trying to figure out who is abe and who is bob...:)



Forums are not fun when all the threads get closed.....reba
 
Again jethro you seem to be angry and lash out in your anger?
Cool off and come back when you can speak in more reasonable terms.
 
Seems the law was important enough to God to bother to put it in our hearts.
...which really magnifies the fact that the law did NOT pass away. :thumbsup


ABE is not setting out to make sure he breaks the 'ten' etc. BOB is not saying he saved because he keeps the "ten" etc..... what gives... ?
Abe, whoever that is ;), doesn't understand that acknowledging what the law says is sin and avoiding that sin, upholding that law through faith in Christ, does not automatically equate to the damnable offense of trying to be justified by that law. If that were true James is teaching us to condemn ourselves by 'looking to the law' to show us, for example, not to show favoritism (Leviticus 19:15).


No fair trying to figure out who is abe and who is bob...:)
I haven't a clue... :shrug
 
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