The Day of the LORD... The Day of Jesus Christ...

[Deborah13]

a time of judgment and purging, preparing the world to recognize believing Jews as God's earthly witness?

Can you explain more fully and give supporting scripture for the statement above?

Who is the body of Christ, the Church?
Why do you see the Jews as a separate body?
Why would God want the world to see Jews as God's witness to Jesus, on earth?
Is the Church God's witness on earth? What was the last 2,000 yrs?

Thank you Deborah......I can't for the life of me understand why people seperate Israel from the Church!!!!!!

You are either with Christ,or against Him....Jew's that are saved are Christians Aficans that are saved,are Christians,etc...............There is nothing special for the unsaved,Jew or otherwise....

A couple years ago, I saw a show on the History channel I think. They had done genetic studies on about 6 people in a diversified group. All Americans though.
There were two that stood out to me. They had compared the genetic marks to each other in the group. A Native American man was the most closely related to a third generation Italian woman. The Italian woman's genealogy had been traced back many generations. She was shocked though to find she had several genetic marks that showed Jewish descent. I would suspect that there are many more people than we are aware of that have Jewish marks.
So would God include them with the nation of Israel or the body of Christ? Or both? Say they are unsaved, do they get that second Jewish chance to bring them to Christ? What about the people who are of the Jewish faith but are not Jews by genetics?

 

[farouk]

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

The book of Hebrews is predicated upon the distinction between Israel and the church.

Romans 9, 10, and 11 clearly show that Israelites who have a future in God's dispensational plan, may now be hostile from the Gospel perspective.

Blessings.

 

[n2thelight]

Will address post 44 later,as for now,never did I say I didn't believe in the resurrection.....The point I was making about there will be no body to come back to,was simply that at death this flesh body goes back to the dust from whence it came,never ever to be used again......That's my point!!!!!

When a person dies they go straight to Heaven,Those who do not die before Christ returns will be changed to those same bodies that the people who have died have,at the 7th trump.....Paul can explain it better so I shall let him....

I must completely disagree.. the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead bodily, He had (has) FLESH and BONE. This is a simple biblical fact which cannot be denied.

And once again, another biblical fact is that NO MAN has ascended into HEAVEN but the Son of Man who came down from HEAVEN.

There are no men in heaven save the Lord Jesus Christ.

But there will be, in that Day, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ.

Who are the people in the below scripture?

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

 

[Eventide]

Will address post 44 later,as for now,never did I say I didn't believe in the resurrection.....The point I was making about there will be no body to come back to,was simply that at death this flesh body goes back to the dust from whence it came,never ever to be used again......That's my point!!!!!

When a person dies they go straight to Heaven,Those who do not die before Christ returns will be changed to those same bodies that the people who have died have,at the 7th trump.....Paul can explain it better so I shall let him....

I must completely disagree.. the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead bodily, He had (has) FLESH and BONE. This is a simple biblical fact which cannot be denied.

And once again, another biblical fact is that NO MAN has ascended into HEAVEN but the Son of Man who came down from HEAVEN.

There are no men in heaven save the Lord Jesus Christ.

But there will be, in that Day, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ.

Who are the people in the below scripture?

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

The answer to your question is based upon the portion of the Revelation which you have quoted here.. specifically Rev 6...

This portion of the revelation pertains to the things which shall be hereafter... not the things which are..

Can you see that ?

Or do you believe that Rev 6 pertains to the past, or present even ?

 

[n2thelight]

Then how about the Lord Jesus Christ Himself..

Was He raised in a spiritual body... of course He was.. and He had FLESH AND BONE.

It's debatable whether or not He had blood... I don't think so, for His precious blood was shed for us the cross of Calvary.

And we KNOW that we shall be like Him. This is our hope.. that He shall change these vile bodies in the blink of an eye.. fashioned like unto His glorious body.

I'd appreciate other thoughts on this because this is an extremely important aspect of the Christian faith.

Luke 24:36 "And as they thus spake, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, "Peace be with you."

Now as they were all standing together discussing their sightings of Jesus with one another, Jesus appeared there right in their group, and said to them. "Peace be with you." Now every last one of them have seen Jesus and witnessed that Jesus is truly alive. Jesus never came through a door, but in His incorruptible spiritual body came right into the room with the door shut. Jesus appeared in the center of their group, He had been there all the time. This is teaching the lesson of the coming of the Holy Spirit, the Comforter.

Luke 24:37 "But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit."

Think of it, after all the Peter told them, and the two that came from Emmaus, these followers were still frightened with Jesus came into their midst. People in their flesh bodies have such a hard time visualizing or understanding the Divine influence of our own Father, or the Son and His Spirit.

Luke 24:38 "And He said unto them, "Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?"

Jesus asked them, "Why are you troubled in your mind and thoughts?" They should be happy but instead there were shook up. It was written that Jesus body would not see corruption, decay, and this is proof, for Jesus is in His incorruptible body. You can trust what is written in His Word.

Luke 24:39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself: handle Me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have."

This is true, for the "spirit" is only the intellect of the soul, but soul has another body, an heavenly body that has form, and Jesus is calling attention to "My hands and My feet, touch Me and see for yourself". Jesus body has form and He is real, but in that other dimension.

Luke 24:40 "And when He had thus spoken, He shewed them His hands and His feet."

We know from another Gospel that Thomas had to touch those nail print hands and the spear scar in His side before He would believe that Jesus was truly the Christ.

Luke 24:41 "And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, He said unto, "Have ye here any meat?"

Jesus is trying to make them believe and see that this is not just some spirit speaking to them, but another person in a body that has form. Sure that body can inter into that other dimension, but Jesus is showing them that He is risen from the dead. Sure they say Jesus being crucified on the cross, they witnessed Joseph taking Jesus off the cross, dressing him, and putting Jesus in that tomb. Yet here Jesus is standing before them and asking for food. Though eating is not for that incorruptible body, by eating Jesus will demonstrate that He truly is in body form.

 

[n2thelight]

Will address post 44 later,as for now,never did I say I didn't believe in the resurrection.....The point I was making about there will be no body to come back to,was simply that at death this flesh body goes back to the dust from whence it came,never ever to be used again......That's my point!!!!!

When a person dies they go straight to Heaven,Those who do not die before Christ returns will be changed to those same bodies that the people who have died have,at the 7th trump.....Paul can explain it better so I shall let him....

I must completely disagree.. the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead bodily, He had (has) FLESH and BONE. This is a simple biblical fact which cannot be denied.

And once again, another biblical fact is that NO MAN has ascended into HEAVEN but the Son of Man who came down from HEAVEN.

There are no men in heaven save the Lord Jesus Christ.

But there will be, in that Day, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ.

Who are the people in the below scripture?

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

The answer to your question is based upon the portion of the Revelation which you have quoted here.. specifically Rev 6...

This portion of the revelation pertains to the things which shall be hereafter... not the things which are..

Can you see that ?

Or do you believe that Rev 6 pertains to the past, or present even ?

After what?You have people in Heaven and on the earth,so what is this referring?

 

[Eventide]

Then how about the Lord Jesus Christ Himself..

Was He raised in a spiritual body... of course He was.. and He had FLESH AND BONE.

It's debatable whether or not He had blood... I don't think so, for His precious blood was shed for us the cross of Calvary.

And we KNOW that we shall be like Him. This is our hope.. that He shall change these vile bodies in the blink of an eye.. fashioned like unto His glorious body.

I'd appreciate other thoughts on this because this is an extremely important aspect of the Christian faith.

Luke 24:36 "And as they thus spake, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, "Peace be with you."

Now as they were all standing together discussing their sightings of Jesus with one another, Jesus appeared there right in their group, and said to them. "Peace be with you." Now every last one of them have seen Jesus and witnessed that Jesus is truly alive. Jesus never came through a door, but in His incorruptible spiritual body came right into the room with the door shut. Jesus appeared in the center of their group, He had been there all the time. This is teaching the lesson of the coming of the Holy Spirit, the Comforter.

Luke 24:37 "But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit."

Think of it, after all the Peter told them, and the two that came from Emmaus, these followers were still frightened with Jesus came into their midst. People in their flesh bodies have such a hard time visualizing or understanding the Divine influence of our own Father, or the Son and His Spirit.

Luke 24:38 "And He said unto them, "Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?"

Jesus asked them, "Why are you troubled in your mind and thoughts?" They should be happy but instead there were shook up. It was written that Jesus body would not see corruption, decay, and this is proof, for Jesus is in His incorruptible body. You can trust what is written in His Word.

Luke 24:39 "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself: handle Me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have."

This is true, for the "spirit" is only the intellect of the soul, but soul has another body, an heavenly body that has form, and Jesus is calling attention to "My hands and My feet, touch Me and see for yourself". Jesus body has form and He is real, but in that other dimension.

Luke 24:40 "And when He had thus spoken, He shewed them His hands and His feet."

We know from another Gospel that Thomas had to touch those nail print hands and the spear scar in His side before He would believe that Jesus was truly the Christ.

Luke 24:41 "And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, He said unto, "Have ye here any meat?"

Jesus is trying to make them believe and see that this is not just some spirit speaking to them, but another person in a body that has form. Sure that body can inter into that other dimension, but Jesus is showing them that He is risen from the dead. Sure they say Jesus being crucified on the cross, they witnessed Joseph taking Jesus off the cross, dressing him, and putting Jesus in that tomb. Yet here Jesus is standing before them and asking for food. Though eating is not for that incorruptible body, by eating Jesus will demonstrate that He truly is in body form.

Not sure what you're trying to say here, because to me these verses are showing us the resurrected Christ in the way which only the bible can.. miraculously.

He has flesh and bone, and the marks of Calvary on His person..? How can these things be denied ?

We also see that He can appear in the midst of His people.. Amen to that.. so there's clearly some miraculous aspects of His appearing post resurrection... no doubt about it..

Although as mentioned, what are you suggesting, that He was not raised bodily, or that we're not going to be raised bodily as He was ?

 

[Eventide]

After what?You have people in Heaven and on the earth,so what is this referring?

After the things which are...

Rev 6 pertains to the future, not the present or the past. Can you see that ?

These are the things which shall be hereafter according to one of the Apostles of the circumcision, John of course.

 

[JLB]

Isaiah 13:1-13 This word is reference to the Day of The Lord at the end of the age.

You believe this text to be a reference to the end of the world and others like myself see it as referencing ancient Babylon. It's unlikely that both of us are correct, so hows about we work together to come to the best, most unbiased understanding of this text as possible? In the text that you quoted I noticed that you stopped at verse 13 as opposed to verse 16 which continues the thought. Isaiah 13:11-16 reads:

I'll punish the world for its evil, and the irreverent I'll destroy for their sins… I'll destroy the insolence of the lawless, and bring the haughtiness of the proud to the ground. Then those left behind will be rarer than gold… they'll be rarer than gold from Ophir. For, the skies will then be enraged, and the foundations of the earth will be shaken, by the anger and rage of Jehovah of Armies, in that day when He brings His wrath. Then the remaining will run as though they were deer… they will all stray like sheep. No way will a man return to his home; for, they all will flee their houses. Then, whoever is captured will be [killed], and those who are caught will fall by the sword. Before them, their kids will be dashed to the ground; their homes will be ruined and all their women will be raped.


The text's continuation has some real 'of this world' events happening. Those inflicting and acting as the instruments of the punishment of God aren't described as being Godly either. They are described as murdering children, destroying homes, and raping women. Are not these rapists and murders the very ones spoken of in verse 5? Doesn't their depiction fit better with the Medes and Persians thana Heavenly Host of God's faithful messengers?

Additionally, Isaiah 14:1-2 continues the discussion of Babylon's fate and begins by saying that the things described in chapter 13 would happen quickly (soon) and says that Israel will go from being slaves to being the masters of those who once treated them as slaves. How can this be talking about the end of time with Jesus makes all things new if there's going to be slavery, rape, destruction, and such evil?

1 The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw. 2 "Lift up a banner on the high mountain, Raise your voice to them; Wave your hand, that they may enter the gates of the nobles. 3 I have commanded My sanctified ones; I have also called My mighty ones for My anger-- Those who rejoice in My exaltation." 4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, Like that of many people! A tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together! The Lord of hosts musters The army for battle. 5 They come from a far country, From the end of heaven-- The Lord and His weapons of indignation, To destroy the whole land. 6 Wail, for the day of the Lord is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty. 7 Therefore all hands will be limp, Every man's heart will melt, 8 And they will be afraid. Pangs and sorrows will take hold of them; They will be in pain as a woman in childbirth; They will be amazed at one another; Their faces will be like flames. 9 Behold, the day of the Lord comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it. 10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine. 11 "I will punish the world for its evil, And the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold, A man more than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the Lord of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger. Isaiah 13:1-13

• 3 I have commanded My sanctified ones; I have also called My mighty ones for My anger-- Those who rejoice in My exaltation."

• 4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, Like that of many people! A tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together!

• The Lord of hosts musters The army for battle. 5 They come from a far country, From the end of heaven-- The Lord and His weapons of indignation, To destroy the whole land.

• 10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.[ Matthew 24:29-31]

• 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the Lord of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger.

JLB

 

[n2thelight]

Not sure what you're trying to say here, because to me these verses are showing us the resurrected Christ in the way which only the bible can.. miraculously.

He has flesh and bone, and the marks of Calvary on His person..? How can these things be denied ?

We also see that He can appear in the midst of His people.. Amen to that.. so there's clearly some miraculous aspects of His appearing post resurrection... no doubt about it..

Although as mentioned, what are you suggesting, that He was not raised bodily, ir that we're not going to be raised bodily as He was ?

I don't know how else to explain it,Im not denying we won't have a body,what Im saying ,is that it will not be flesh......That's why all will be changed at the 7th trump,those who are alive at His coming,those who have died are coming with Him,and have already changed,again not flesh

 

[n2thelight]

After what?You have people in Heaven and on the earth,so what is this referring?

After the things which are...

Rev 6 pertains to the future, not the present or the past. Can you see that ?

These are the things which shall be hereafter according to one of the Apostles of the circumcision, John of course.

Yes I agree,it is future,however it's before the Day of the Lord.................

 

[n2thelight]

Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"

This verse is the key to understanding the book of Revelation. Without a clear and full understanding of it, the entire book just will not make sense. The sequence of order will seem strange.

"I"; this is John speaking and telling us where he was. "I was in the Spirit", not in his flesh body; "on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet". John is taken forward in time, "in the Spirit", to the day of the Lord. The "Day of the Lord" is not referring to Sunday or Saturday. This is the same "Day of the Lord" Paul speaks about in I Thessalonians 5:2, as "coming as a thief in the night". Later in II Thessalonians 2:2-3 Paul makes it clear that at the "Day of the Lord" Christ's return will not happen until "after there will be a great falling away first; and "that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition". Satan must be revealed in his role as the Antichrist first, before that seventh trumpet can sound, the last trumpet.

The time, or day, John was taken to was beyond our time frame, however we are living in the generation that will see it come to pass, and live through what John saw and lived, while in the Spirit. There is only one day that is called "The Day of the Lord" in all the Scriptures.

Isaiah 2:12 "For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low."

This is the day that our Lord returns. This is the day "God's cup of wrath" is poured out upon His enemies. So John was taken in the Spirit to the last day of this earth age, before the start of the age of the Millennium. If you are still in your flesh body, that day hasn't happened yet, and it is still future to us.
Every verse that you read in Revelation from this verse to the end of chapter twenty two, will be viewed from the Lord's day, either looking backwards or forwards a short period of time. If you don't come to that point of time in your understanding with John, the rest of what he is saying just will not make sense.

 

[Eventide]

After what?You have people in Heaven and on the earth,so what is this referring?

After the things which are...

Rev 6 pertains to the future, not the present or the past. Can you see that ?

These are the things which shall be hereafter according to one of the Apostles of the circumcision, John of course.

Yes I agree,it is future,however it's before the Day of the Lord.................

Then I need to disagree... Rev 6 is the Day of The Lord IMO.

 

[Eventide]

Not sure what you're trying to say here, because to me these verses are showing us the resurrected Christ in the way which only the bible can.. miraculously.

He has flesh and bone, and the marks of Calvary on His person..? How can these things be denied ?

We also see that He can appear in the midst of His people.. Amen to that.. so there's clearly some miraculous aspects of His appearing post resurrection... no doubt about it..

Although as mentioned, what are you suggesting, that He was not raised bodily, ir that we're not going to be raised bodily as He was ?

I don't know how else to explain it,Im not denying we won't have a body,what Im saying ,is that it will not be flesh......That's why all will be changed at the 7th trump,those who are alive at His coming,those who have died are coming with Him,and have already changed,again not flesh

If you can't explain it according to scripture then we have a problem. According to scripture we see a resurrected Christ with flesh and bone.

 

[n2thelight]

After what?You have people in Heaven and on the earth,so what is this referring?

After the things which are...

Rev 6 pertains to the future, not the present or the past. Can you see that ?

These are the things which shall be hereafter according to one of the Apostles of the circumcision, John of course.

Yes I agree,it is future,however it's before the Day of the Lord.................

Then I need to disagree... Rev 6 is the Day of The Lord IMO.

Yes Rev 6 is the Day of the Lord,but not until verses 14-17 yet you have people there in Heaven in verse 9,how did they get there?

 

[n2thelight]

Not sure what you're trying to say here, because to me these verses are showing us the resurrected Christ in the way which only the bible can.. miraculously.

He has flesh and bone, and the marks of Calvary on His person..? How can these things be denied ?

We also see that He can appear in the midst of His people.. Amen to that.. so there's clearly some miraculous aspects of His appearing post resurrection... no doubt about it..

Although as mentioned, what are you suggesting, that He was not raised bodily, ir that we're not going to be raised bodily as He was ?

I don't know how else to explain it,Im not denying we won't have a body,what Im saying ,is that it will not be flesh......That's why all will be changed at the 7th trump,those who are alive at His coming,those who have died are coming with Him,and have already changed,again not flesh

If you can't explain it according to scripture then we have a problem. According to scripture we see a resurrected Christ with flesh and bone.

So how did Christ go through the wall?

 

[Eventide]

Yes Rev 6 is the Day of the Lord,but not until verses 14-17 yet you have people there in Heaven in verse 9,how did they get there?

Again, I disagree... IMO The Day of The Lord begins in chapter 4 when John is given the revelation of the things which shall be hereafter... And that's the next Day coming up on the prophetic timeline, following these last days.

 

[Eventide]

Not sure what you're trying to say here, because to me these verses are showing us the resurrected Christ in the way which only the bible can.. miraculously.

He has flesh and bone, and the marks of Calvary on His person..? How can these things be denied ?

We also see that He can appear in the midst of His people.. Amen to that.. so there's clearly some miraculous aspects of His appearing post resurrection... no doubt about it..

Although as mentioned, what are you suggesting, that He was not raised bodily, ir that we're not going to be raised bodily as He was ?

I don't know how else to explain it,Im not denying we won't have a body,what Im saying ,is that it will not be flesh......That's why all will be changed at the 7th trump,those who are alive at His coming,those who have died are coming with Him,and have already changed,again not flesh

If you can't explain it according to scripture then we have a problem. According to scripture we see a resurrected Christ with flesh and bone.

So how did Christ go through the wall?

Great question, who could begin to know the answer to it? But that doesn't mean that I just discard the scriptural evidence that He has flesh and bone... why would anyone want to do that, does it suddenly not become the word of God?

 

[Eventide]

It's also important to note that the BODY of Christ on earth today is His flesh and bone... and who would deny that we have already been translated into the kingdom of His dear Son ?... Doesn't scripture say that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and yet here we are with flesh... And bone, being the many members of the body of Christ.

Notice that we're not His blood... For we know that it was shed on the cross of Calvary.. not for our sins only, but for the sin of the world.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

how many flesh and bone bodies ascend to heaven? flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom. paul says in 1 cor 15 we are sown corruption (flesh/natural body) we are risen in incorruption (spiritual body)


1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.