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The Holocaust - God's Covenant with the Jewish People

Hello einstein:

I want to make it clear that I agree that the most "natural" reading of the Genesis 17 material supports your position. I do not want to give the impression that my position on this text is solely determined by exploiting the possibility that "owlam" can be read as "time-limited". That line of thinking is only very peripherally related to my reasons for taking the view on this text that I do.

I will need more time to put my ideas together in a reasonably short form.
 
I don't believe in getting whipped up into a frenzy over that which we have no control. Regardless of whether your interpretation is the correct one, if you trust in Christ He will soothe much of the anxiety you have over the end times.

I have no anxiety over anything relating to any view.. not sure how you come to this conclusion. Thank you ever so much for formulating more then one sentence. I knew you had it in you.
 
Drew said:
einstein said:
The covenant made with Abraham established that the land which belong to the Eternal was bequeathed to Abraham's descendants (thru Issac).

. "As for Me, behold My covenant is with you, and you shall become the father of a multitude of nations. ד. ×ÂÖ²× Ö´×™ ×â€Ã–´× ÖµÖ¼×†×‘ְרִיתִי ×Âִתָּךְ וְ×â€Ã–¸×™Ö´×™×ªÖ¸ לְ×Âַב ×â€Ã–²×ž×•Ö¹×Ÿ גּוֹיִ×Â:
5. And your name shall no longer be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I have made you the father of a multitude of nations. ×â€. וְלֹניִקָּרֵנעוֹד ×Âֶת שִ×Âמְךָ ×Âַבְרָנוְ×â€Ã–¸×™Ö¸×†×©Ö´×Âמְךָ ×Âַבְרָ×â€Ã–¸× ×›Ö´Ö¼×™ ×Âַב ×â€Ã–²×ž×•Ö¹×Ÿ גּוֹיִננְתַתִּיךָ:
6. And I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make you into nations, and kings will emerge from you. ו. וְ×â€Ã–´×¤Ö°×¨Öµ×ªÖ´×™ ×Âֹתְךָ בִּמְ×Âֹד מְ×Âֹד וּנְתַתִּיךָ לְגוֹיִנוּמְלָכִינמִמְּךָ יֵצֵ×Âוּ:
7. And I will establish My covenant between Me and between you and between your seed after you throughout their generations as an everlasting covenant, to be to you for a God and to your seed after you. ×–. וַ×â€Ã–²×§Ö´×žÖ¹×ªÖ´×™ ×Âֶת בְּרִיתִי בֵּינִי וּבֵינֶךָ וּבֵין זַרְעֲךָ ×Âַחֲרֶיךָ לְדֹרֹתָנלִבְרִית עוֹלָנלִ×â€Ã–°×™×•Ö¹×ª לְךָ לֵ×Âלֹ×â€Ã–´×™× ×•Ö¼×œÖ°×–ַרְעֲךָ ×Âַחֲרֶיךָ:
8. And I will give you and your seed after you the land of your sojournings, the entire land of Canaan for an everlasting possession, and I will be to them for a God."
Things are not at all as simple as you seem to be suggesting. Consider verse 8 and the reference to the gift of Canaan as an “everlasting†possession. The Hebrew word that is translated as “everlasting†is the word “owlamâ€Â. Note how the definition of this word is fluid – embracing the eternality that would support your position, but also allowing for a reading that does not denote eternality:

Definition (from Net Bible): 1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting,
evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world

And here we have an example from Isaiah 42 of this same word used in a context where eternality is certainly not intended:

The LORD emerges like a hero,
like a warrior he inspires himself for battle;
he shouts, yes, he yells,
he shows his enemies his power.
I have been i for a long time;
I kept quiet and held back.
Like a woman in labor I groan;
I pant and gasp.
I will make the trees on the mountains and hills wither up;
I will dry up all their vegetation.
I will turn streams into islands,
and dry up pools of water.


Clearly God is talking about talking action after a long period of “inactivityâ€Â. So here, the word “owlam†does not denote an everlasting period of time – it denotes a limited duration of time.

So one cannot simply assume that Genesis 17:8 entails a promise of Canaan to the Israelites forever. That is one reading that needs to be considered, but there are others as well.

By the way, I am not committing, at this point anyway, to saying that I think that 17:8 is saying “Canaan has been given to Israel for a limited timeâ€Â. – I need to think about this further.

However, I believe that I have shown that “everlasting†need not necessarily mean “everlasting†in this context. We have Biblical precedent for a “time-limited†use of “owlamâ€Â.

I may have other arguments to make about the Genesis 17 passage later.


I won't belabour this point beyond this post. Obviously I do not hold the Net Bible in the high esteem that you do and I certainly do not accept the definition of the word "olam" being that of long duration, as correct. The word as used in the Hebrew Bible means everlasting or forever, unless there is something unique in the context which suggests otherwise. The Judaica Press Tanach correctly translates the verse as follows:" I was silent from time immemorial; " This is no different than when the word "olam" is used in 2 Sam 7:13 in the pronouncement of the Davidic covenant. There is no time limitation here either.
 
Sinthesis said:
How does today's Jewish faith resolve 'everlasting possession' with the Assyrian conquest, Babylonian captivity and Roman fueled diaspora? It seems this land has clearly not been in possession of Israel continually ever since the time of Abraham.


Good question. I cannot speak for Judaism in general so this is my personal opinion which probably represent an Orthodox Jewish perspective as gleaned from the Tanakh. Just as in the Davidic covenant, even though the Eternal promised to establish the throne of David and his son Solomon "forever" this does not mean that there would always be an occupant of the throne. In fact this was foretold by Hosea.
In a similar vein, the fact that the land was provided to Abraham's seed as an everlasting covenant does not mean that Israel would always be in possession of the land. Again this was foretold by Moshe (Moses) who made a prophecy of the diaspora. This follows the theme of reward for following God's mitzvot (commands) and punishment for transgressing them. Many Jews view the re-establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 after almost two thousand years of the diaspora as a sign that the punishment has been fulfilled. It certainly seems to be a miraculous event in history, in my estimation. :-)
 
einstein said:
Sinthesis said:
How does today's Jewish faith resolve 'everlasting possession' with the Assyrian conquest, Babylonian captivity and Roman fueled diaspora? It seems this land has clearly not been in possession of Israel continually ever since the time of Abraham.


Good question. I cannot speak for Judaism in general so this is my personal opinion which probably represent an Orthodox Jewish perspective as gleaned from the Tanakh. Just as in the Davidic covenant, even though the Eternal promised to establish the throne of David and his son Solomon "forever" this does not mean that there would always be an occupant of the throne. In fact this was foretold by Hosea.
In a similar vein, the fact that the land was provided to Abraham's seed as an everlasting covenant does not mean that Israel would always be in possession of the land. Again this was foretold by Moshe (Moses) who made a prophecy of the diaspora. This follows the theme of reward for following God's mitzvot (commands) and punishment for transgressing them. Many Jews view the re-establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 after almost two thousand years of the diaspora as a sign that the punishment has been fulfilled. It certainly seems to be a miraculous event in history, in my estimation. :-)

I agree it seems quite the miracle. :-)
It also seems ironic that the holocaust probably was a big part in making the State of Israel possible. :(

In your opinion, what was the transgression of the Jews which merited a near 2000yr Diaspora? I'm not trying to play 'Christian gotcha', I'm just not familiar with all the rationalizations of the Jewish faith.
 
Sinthesis said:
In your opinion, what was the transgression of the Jews which merited a near 2000yr Diaspora? I'm not trying to play 'Christian gotcha', I'm just not familiar with all the rationalizations of the Jewish faith.

In a nutshell, the Talmud tells us that there was a period of significant spiritual decline in the post second Temple period, but the worst transgression was that of of interfactional baseless hatred which resulted in unprecedented rates of crime including murder which ultimately resulted in the destruction of the second Temple and the 2000 year diaspora. :shame
 
einstein said:
Sinthesis said:
In your opinion, what was the transgression of the Jews which merited a near 2000yr Diaspora? I'm not trying to play 'Christian gotcha', I'm just not familiar with all the rationalizations of the Jewish faith.

In a nutshell, the Talmud tells us that there was a period of significant spiritual decline in the post second Temple period, but the worst transgression was that of of interfactional baseless hatred which resulted in unprecedented rates of crime including murder which ultimately resulted in the destruction of the second Temple and the 2000 year diaspora. :shame
Thanks; I believe Josephus records some of that, but are there other Jewish sources detailing that era? I'm also really interested in the philosophical differences between Temple and Talmud Judaism.
 
Sinthesis said:
einstein said:
Sinthesis said:
In your opinion, what was the transgression of the Jews which merited a near 2000yr Diaspora? I'm not trying to play 'Christian gotcha', I'm just not familiar with all the rationalizations of the Jewish faith.

In a nutshell, the Talmud tells us that there was a period of significant spiritual decline in the post second Temple period, but the worst transgression was that of of interfactional baseless hatred which resulted in unprecedented rates of crime including murder which ultimately resulted in the destruction of the second Temple and the 2000 year diaspora. :shame
Thanks; I believe Josephus records some of that, but are there other Jewish sources detailing that era? I'm also really interested in the philosophical differences between Temple and Talmud Judaism.

I think Josephus and the Talmud would be your best sources.
 
einstein said:
I won't belabour this point beyond this post. Obviously I do not hold the Net Bible in the high esteem that you do and I certainly do not accept the definition of the word "olam" being that of long duration, as correct. The word as used in the Hebrew Bible means everlasting or forever, unless there is something unique in the context which suggests otherwise.
Well, we know from the text that I have provided that "owlam" need not connote eternality. Therefore, one cannot simply stand on the "forever" reading in the texts about the promise of Palestince. You need to make a case to rule out a "time-limited" reading, just as I need to make a case for a time-limited reading.

The main point is that one cannot simply claim a clear and direct promise of Palestine to the Jews forever in the Genesis 17 material. It is an open question as to what "owlam" means there.
 
nonbelieverforums said:
DREW... we have some unfinished business ?? what is the verdict ??
Still thinking - haven't forgotten.......
 
Well maybe I can lead you along.. When I did this original post my main concern was the growing Iran threat against Israel.. Can Iran's president really wipe Israel off the map.. ??

I take the position that Ezekiel 38–39 has not happened yet. So while there may be no covenant. One thing I know for sure is that while there maybe casualities and cities distroyed in Israel I would say that it would be impossible that Israel could be wiped off the map.. It would go against virtually all endtime scripture.. the nations of the world would be turning against who??

So I was wondering if that was a modern day covenant god has with Israel. It would seem the argument is that covenant ended at the cross. But certainly if you are an endtime believer Israel is protected during every aspect of endtimes??

Yet still when I read the work of people like Joel Rosenberg who is an endtime believer I don't get why all the fuss that Israel could be distroyed.. He is a huge futurist and loving Christian.. But he seems to want to push the U.S. to do a preemptive attack on Iran with Israel..

What for? The bible knows the outcome of this conflict. Israel can never be distroyed??

So I guess if Israel was distroyed the Preterist argument would look pretty good.

Iran will have the nuclear capacity to do in six minutes what Hitler tried to do for six years.
 
nonbelieverforums said:
So I was wondering if that was a modern day covenant god has with Israel. It would seem the argument is that covenant ended at the cross. But certainly if you are an endtime believer Israel is protected during every aspect of endtimes??
I have read this text and simply am not sure what it means. I am not opposed to the idea of unfulfilled prophecy - you should know that I am not a "full" preterist.

But I am fairly confident that the "age of national Israel" came to an end at the cross and that the events of 1948 are not a fulfillment of a covenantal promise.
 
nonbelieverforums said:
Well maybe I can lead you along.. When I did this original post my main concern was the growing Iran threat against Israel.. Can Iran's president really wipe Israel off the map.. ??

I take the position that Ezekiel 38–39 has not happened yet. So while there may be no covenant. One thing I know for sure is that while there maybe casualities and cities distroyed in Israel I would say that it would be impossible that Israel could be wiped off the map.. It would go against virtually all endtime scripture.. the nations of the world would be turning against who??

So I was wondering if that was a modern day covenant god has with Israel. It would seem the argument is that covenant ended at the cross. But certainly if you are an endtime believer Israel is protected during every aspect of endtimes??

Yet still when I read the work of people like Joel Rosenberg who is an endtime believer I don't get why all the fuss that Israel could be distroyed.. He is a huge futurist and loving Christian.. But he seems to want to push the U.S. to do a preemptive attack on Iran with Israel..

What for? The bible knows the outcome of this conflict. Israel can never be distroyed??

So I guess if Israel was distroyed the Preterist argument would look pretty good.

Iran will have the nuclear capacity to do in six minutes what Hitler tried to do for six years.
Ezekiel 38–39 has already happened and in a sense continues today.

Preterists don't need to look to any of today's events to bolster their belief. It is the Futurist who hopes God will save the State of Israel in some future war, but only so that the antichrist can then slaughter two thirds of their population.

Less than half of today's Jewish population actually lives in the State of Israel. Were every Jew in the State of Israel to be killed by Iran, it would just about equal in number the atrocity of Nazi Germany. How would any hypothetical genocide by Iran be any more a violation of some modern day covenant than that of the Nazi genocide? The Holocaust was real, and any attempt by Islam to repeat it must be guarded against.
 
nonbelieverforums
Who do you believe would not be destroyed?

Daniel 11;32-33
And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt with flatteries;but the people that do know thier God shall be strong ,and do exploits.
And they that understand amoung the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil many days.

Of the people in Judea who call themselves Israel ,who do you say God will save?
Do you believe he will save those who do wichedly against the covenant ?
If Im not mistaken ,those in Judea who know thier God will be murderd as is written above.
I dont believe there will be many who know thier God left alive in Judea but for the elect sake he shortens those days.
From all that Ive read about the end times in Judea.Its not a great place to be for the saints.
Its a tough situation when you own brother rises against you and causes you to be put to death.
 
Drew said:
einstein said:
I won't belabour this point beyond this post. Obviously I do not hold the Net Bible in the high esteem that you do and I certainly do not accept the definition of the word "olam" being that of long duration, as correct. The word as used in the Hebrew Bible means everlasting or forever, unless there is something unique in the context which suggests otherwise.
Well, we know from the text that I have provided that "owlam" need not connote eternality. Therefore, one cannot simply stand on the "forever" reading in the texts about the promise of Palestince. You need to make a case to rule out a "time-limited" reading, just as I need to make a case for a time-limited reading.

The main point is that one cannot simply claim a clear and direct promise of Palestine to the Jews forever in the Genesis 17 material. It is an open question as to what "owlam" means there.

It would be quite easy for me to provide numerous terrible translations from the source you quoted but I know you wouldnt change your mind. I suggest you re-read those parts of the bible that deal with God's covenants and when you examine the CONTEXT I think it will become quite clear that we are not dealing with any time limitation- nor are any of these covenants replaced. Take note:



Leviticus 26:44 "And yet for all that (rebellion), when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, neither will I abhor them, destroy them, [nor] break the covenant with them, for I am HaShem, their G-d."

(Genesis 17:7) "My covenant shall be in your flesh for an *everlasting* covenant."

(Genesis 17:13) "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your offspring after you throughout their generations for an *everlasting* covenant."

(Genesis 17:19) "And G-d said: 'Nay, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son; and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an *everlasting* covenant for his offspring after him.'"

(1 Chronicles 16:14-17) "He is the HaShem our G-d; his judgments are in all the earth. Remember His covenant for ever, the word which He commanded to a thousand generations, which He made with Abraham, and His oath unto Isaac; and He established it unto Jacob for a statute, to Israel for an *everlasting* covenant."

(Ecclesiastics 3:14) "Whatever G-d decrees *shall be forever*; nothing shall be added to it nothing shall be taken away."

(Isaiah 40:18) "The word of the HaShem shall stand firm *forever*"

(Numbers 19:21) "and it shall be law *for all time*"

(Numbers 15:14) ". . .There shall be one law for you and for the Ger(Convert), it shall be a law *for all time* throughout the ages."

(Numbers 15:21)"You shall make a gift to the HaShem from the first yield of your baking, *throughout the ages*"

(Exodus 31:16)"The Israelites people shall keep the Shabbat, observing the Shabbat throughout the ages as a covenant *for all time.*"

(Dt 4:40) "Observe His laws and commandments, which I enjoin upon you this day, that it may go well with you and your children after you and you may live in the land that the HaShem your G-d is assigning to you *for all time.*"

(Numbers 15:23) "All that the HaShem commanded you by the hand of Moses from the day that the HaShem gave commandments and onward *throughout your generations.*"

(Exodus 12:17) "And you shall observe the (commandment of) Unleavened bread . . .you shall observe this day throughout your generations as an ordinance *forever.*"

(2 Kings 17:37) And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which He wrote for you, you shall observe to do *for evermore*; and you shall not fear other gods

Jeremiah 3:14 "Return, O backsliding children," says the L-rd, "for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion."

Isaiah 54:8-10 "With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you," says the L-rd, your Redeemer. "This is like the waters of Noah to Me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah would no longer cover the earth, so have I sworn that I would not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. The mountains shall depart and the hills be removed, but My kindness shall not depart from you, nor shall My covenant of peace be removed," says the L-rd, Who has mercy on you.


If you still feel that God's word-the Torah and his covenants have expiry dates, because of one lousy translation of the word "olam" in the NetBible, there's really nothing more I can say. :shrug
 
einstein said:
If you still feel that God's word-the Torah and his covenants have expiry dates, because of one lousy translation of the word "olam" in the NetBible, there's really nothing more I can say. :shrug
What do you make of the following?

Zechariah 11:10-11 - And I took my staff, [even] Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
11 - And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it [was] the word of the LORD.
 
einstein said:
It would be quite easy for me to provide numerous terrible translations from the source you quoted but I know you wouldnt change your mind.
This is not constructive. This statement is a dressed-up of way of implying that I have an "agenda" to "make" the scriptures conform to a view that I want to prevail.

You have no evidence at all to suggest that I am not being fair and open-handed in my analysis of the scriptures, so please do not speculate about the nature of my intentions.

I do not treat you this way - please give the appropriate level of respect.
 
I agree that there may not be a current day covenant. I disagree that Israel could be wipped off the map EVER. Yes I am aware of the agument that Israel is not a nation that was my thread as well. Futurists take the position that in 1948 when it Israel became a nation, it sets frame work for all other prophecies to follow..

The frame work for Ezekiel 38-39 is also set.. I have been writing about it for years. I have done some independent posts on this site,, i.e. Euphrates River drying in an instant via the Atatürk Dam,the Shanghai Cooperation responsible the rallying the countires together in this conflcit and how those members now match the countries as in the bible. What I say to people that say Ezekiel 38-39 already happened,, is there is no archaeology to prove it. Where are the graves of 200 million men it took seven months to bury.

So I suggest as we watch the Iran conflict explode,, my position is that we will see very little damage to Israel. There will be casualties, but I suggest that Jerusalem will remain in tact.

Joel Rosenberg:

August 18, 2009 WEST GIVES IRAN A SEPTEMBER DEADLINE: Russian President warns Israel not to attack Iran, but might Russia attack Georgia?

The presidents of Russia and Israel meet at the Black Sea.


Is the Kremlin considering another attack on Georgia?
Last month, the Obama administration and the leaders of the G8 industrialized nations gave Iran a deadline of September to accept serious, high-level negotiations over its nuclear program or risk stiffer economic sanctions. Thus far, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his senior aides have rejected any negotiations with the “infidels.†And the clock is running.


In that context, Israeli President Shimon Peres met with his Russian counterpart, President Dmitry Medvedev, in the Black Sea resort town of Sochi Monday. During the meeting, Peres expressed Israel’s serious and growing concern about the state of the Russian-Iranian alliance, Russia’s continued assistance to Iran’s nuclear program, the extreme views of the Iranian regime, and the gravity of Iran acquiring nuclear weapons.

“The problem in Iran is not just the desire to develop nuclear weapons but the character of the regime,†said Peres, in a report by the Israeli paper Haaretz. “Mr. President, I am a Jew, and a large part of my family [from Belarus] was murdered by the Nazis and I cannot sit with my hands folded while I hear the declarations of the president of Iran calling for the destruction of the state of Israel.â€Â

“From my standpoint, a nuclear bomb in Iran’s hands means one thing  an airborne death camp,†Peres said.

Medvedev gave no indication that Russia intends to change it’s policy towards Iran, though he reiterated Moscow’s official policy that it does not want Iran to develop nuclear weapons.

On Friday, however  before Peres’ arrival  Medvedev publicly declared the Kremlin’s opposition to more economic sanctions against Iran and then went further to warn Israel of the grave dangers of launching a preemptive strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities. “We know that certain players are planning an attack against Iran,†noted the Russian President. “But we oppose any unilateral step and military solution to the nuclear crisis.â€Â

It’s too soon, of course, to know whether Iran will eventually agree to negotiations (perhaps to buy more time to complete its nuclear weapons development), or will stiff the West entirely. The Obama administration has pinned a lot of hope on the President’s ability to persuade Tehran to “engage.†We will see if he is successful.

By Friday night, September 11th, we will a clearer sense of what is happening and whether the prospect for another war in the epicenter is rising or diminishing. I hope you are planning to join us for the “National Town Hall Meeting on the Threat of Radical Islam and the Church’s Response†we are planning for that night. Nearly 300 churches have signed up to show the two-hour webcast to their congregations that night, 7pm to 9pm eastern. We hope you can join us. More information is available at http://www.insidetherevolution.org, including a partial list of churches that are participating and details on how your congregation can sign up to show a high-resolution webcast in your sanctuary.


In separate but related developments, I’m hearing concerns coming from evangelical Christian leaders in Georgia  now voiced by a Washington military analyst in a newspaper column  that Russia may be preparing for another attack against the small, democratic republic. Last week, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin visited Abkhazia, a breakaway section of Georgia, and announced that Moscow would build a $500 million military base there. Today, Georgia officially quit the Commonwealth of Independent States, an organization of former Soviet republics. Recent reports from the region indicate Russia and Ukraine are negotiating a ban on arms to Georgia.

It was just a year ago in August that tensions between Russia and Georgia erupted into armed conflict. As noted last year, one of the interesting elements about this particular conflict from the perspective of Bible prophecy  notably Ezekiel 38-39 and the “War of Gog and Magog† is that for Russia to send ground forces south to surround Israel, Russian commanders would need to move through Georgia and the Caucasus and eventually through Turkey, Syria and Lebanon to reach the northern borders of the Jewish State.

This is a situation worth keeping an eye on. Let’s be praying for peace for the people of Georgia, and the people of Israel and the epicenter over the course of the next month.
 
There are those within the Christian church, as well as some non-Christian Jews, who believe that God has made a number of eternal promises to a specific sub-set of humanity – ethnic Israel, the descendents of Abraham through Jacob. I will now argue that such promises, even if they really are eternal (and this is an open question, I suggest), are not limited to ethnic Israel after all. More specifically, I will argue that certain prophetic texts indicate that membership in “Israel†will, in God’s purposes, at some point in time, be opened up to Gentiles.

Consider this text from Isaiah 9:

1But there will be no more gloom for her who was in anguish; in earlier times He treated the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali with contempt, but later on He shall make it glorious, by the way of the sea, on the other side of Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles.
2The people who walk in darkness
Will see a great light;
Those who live in a dark land,
The light will shine on them.
3You shall multiply the nation,..


I suggest that Isaiah is saying that there will come a time when membership in God’s “chosen†people Israel will be expanded to include Gentiles. Note specifically the suggestion (verse 1) of an evolution in the boundaries of Israel – in earlier times, the Gentiles were on the outside in a position of contempt. But a time will come that will change and they will no longer walk in darkness. And I suggest, of course, that it was precisely at the cross that the light shone out into the Gentile world and they were integrated into Israel. (Note: in Jesus’ day, the land of Zebulun and the land of Napthali were pre-dominantly Gentile).

Other translations, such as the NET, render verse 3 as “You shall enlarge the nationâ€Â. Given the reference to the Gentiles “being given a lightâ€Â, it is likely that Isaiah is not talking about a prospering enlargement of ethnic Israel as ethnic Israel, but rather about the integration of Gentiles into the “nation†of Israel.

And Isaiah re-states this theme here in chapter 14:

When the LORD will have compassion on Jacob and again choose Israel, and settle them in their own land, then strangers will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob

And again in chapter 26:

You have increased the nation, O LORD,
You have increased the nation, You are glorified;
You have extended all the borders of the land.


Now I suspect that there will be those who will argue that this text, and the others, speak of a prospering and growth of ethnic Israel, and not of an integration of Gentiles into the “nation†of Israel. Well, consider what Isaiah has just written in chapter 25:

The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;

It is helpful to remember that one of the key covenant promises was that Israel would be a blessing to all the world. From Genesis 12:

And I will make you a great nation,
And I will bless you,
And make your name great;
And so you shall be a blessing;
3And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse
(And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."


And from Genesis 15, we have this:

And He took him outside and said, "Now look toward the heavens, and count the stars, if you are able to count them " And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."

No doubt, this text, as an isolated item, can be read as suggesting that ethnic Israel will become very large, yet still stand as a distinct people. But in light of the material from Isaiah – strongly suggesting integration of Gentiles into “Israel – I suggest that the Genesis 15 text cryptically alludes to a family that includes Gentiles as well. I suggest, therefore, that arguments about eternal promises made to one people only are not Biblically sustained.

Paul suggests that there are some Jews who have overlooked their covenant obligation to be a light to the nations and sought to restrict God’s favour and purposes to themselves. From Romans 11:

Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.
2For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
3For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own,..


Paul is lamenting that many Jews of his day have sought to keep God’s promises limited to Jews and Jews only. I suggest that some of the above texts from Isaiah suggest that God has other plans.
 
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