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The Law, works and keeping his comandments

Your post show that you have correctly taught, A faith that does not "work", is a faith that can not save. [If that is not the exact wording, I apologize.]
I probably have used this exact wording.

You have no argument with me here.

Faith in the blood of Christ to forgive sins is the ONLY way to secure a declaration of righteous, having your sins wiped away. There is no work that can do that. The Israelites sought this declaration of righteousness as if it came by obeying the law (doing righteous things).

THAT is what is wrong with 'law'--trying to be justified by keeping righteous laws. But 'keeping, or upholding the righteous requirements of the law through faith is not wrong. In fact, that is expected of faith, and is required of faith for faith to be considered the faith that can justify and save a person.
 
Right out of the box you're dead wrong.

"Love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18) did NOT get laid aside. And obviously, neither did the WAY that law of Moses gets literally fulfilled.



But that's what you're doing. You're destroying your own argument for being consistent. You think you can 'do away' with 'love your neighbor as yourself', for example, but still retain 'love your neighbor as yourself'. They are not different. They are the EXACT SAME REQUIREMENT. But for some reason when it's written down in the law of Moses it's a DIFFERENT requirement of law? How does that work? Explain that. Start talking about HOW that exact same law gets upheld and you'll be heading in the right direction.



ALL of them.

"14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”" (Galatians 5:14 NIV)

The WAY we uphold them is what got laid aside. Read your Bible!

You're destroying your own argument for being consistent.

You forget there are two camps that have to be brought out of the ditch of extreme, into the middle of the Path of Life, which I call balance.

Your only focus is on the Lawlessness camp.

We are not to look to the right or the left.

You are only looking left.

The left is lawlessness.

The right is legalism.


Both camps must be addressed with Truth.

The Truth is Moses law was added UNTIL the Seed should come.

The TRUTH is the Laws of God that Abraham walked in are eternal and need to be LITERALLY upheld today as well.

Your focus is on the lawless minded Church mindset today, which is great! We need you and the message God has trusted you with, DESPERATELY.

My motive is to see that message completely bullet proof. Irrefutable with no gaps that can be exploited.

You have to emphasize the laws that Abraham walked in and kept are Gods laws that are eternal.

You have to show that even if the law of Moses is laid aside, [though the eternal Laws within did not, because they are Gods Laws that Abraham walked 430 years before the law of Moses].

Stop arguing that Moses law didn't get replaced or set aside. That is where you will lose 99% of the people you are trying to help.

The other ditch is legalism. Legalism teaches physical circumcision, external literal Sabbath keeping as specified in Moses law, feast days...


JLB
 
The right is legalism.
Keeping the WAY of the law of Moses, and for reason of justification, and not upholding the eternal requirements of the law of Moses through faith and obedience by the Spirit of God is legalism.


Both camps must be addressed with Truth.

The Truth is Moses law was added UNTIL the Seed should come.
The truth is the WAY of the law of Moses was added until the appearing of Christ, not the eternal requirements of God found in the law of Moses. Hebrews illustrates this for us.


The TRUTH is the Laws of God that Abraham walked in are eternal and need to be LITERALLY upheld today as well.
And when you do that you end up upholding that exact same truth, not a different truth, in the law of Moses. Not truth upheld in the WAY of the law of Moses, but truth upheld in the new WAY of faith in Christ and obedience according to the fruit of the Spirit.

As I've been asking, if that's not true, show me.


You have to emphasize the laws that Abraham walked in and kept are Gods laws that are eternal.

You have to show that even if the law of Moses is laid aside, [though the eternal Laws within did not, because they are Gods Laws that Abraham walked 430 years before the law of Moses].
I've been doing that. You haven't been 'hearing' it.

The law of Moses is where we see the meat and potatos of what Abraham knew is written down for us to learn from. The law is the revelation of God's righteous standard. It ends all debate and brings all men into account for their actions.


Stop arguing that Moses law didn't get replaced or set aside.
Start hearing what I'm saying!

The WAY of the law of Moses got replaced. The REQUIREMENTS that way served--the requirements Abraham and others served--did not. How can you possibly argue with that? Except that your stuck in the indoctrination of the church that won't let you see the Biblical difference between what the law of Moses sought to uphold and the way the law of Moses itself said they were to be upheld.

Somehow the exact same truth before the law of Moses is no longer the exact same truth and has 'vanished away' when it got written down in the law of Moses. What 'vanished away' was the WAY the law of Moses said to uphold those truths. Read Hebrews!




That is where you will lose 99% of the people you are trying to help.

The other ditch is legalism. Legalism teaches physical circumcision, external literal Sabbath keeping as specified in Moses law, feast days...
...for the purpose of being justified.

The only people I'll lose is the people that can't grasp the difference between the requirements of the law of Moses (blood sacrifice, circumcision, etc.) and the WAY the law of Moses said to uphold those requirements in the old WAY of temple, priesthood, sacrifice, and written word.

The church needs to know the requirements did not go away, only the way to uphold them in the way of the first covenant went away. They need to know this every time someone says 'I don't need to do that because I'm not under the law anymore', not knowing that it is not the eternal rules of God that went away, just the old WAY of fulfilling those rules that went away.

I know this indoctrination that closes the ears of the church at any mention of law whatsoever is difficult to overcome, but the answer is not to say we now follow this non-descript, vauge sense of 'rules' that was known before those rules were written down for us. We know most of what Abraham and others submitted to because of the the law of Moses. We know that, not so we can keep the letter of the WAY of the law of Moses, but so we can uphold the eternal principles of service and worship of the law of Moses that pre-Mosaic saints upheld by their faith in God.
 
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And when you do that you end up upholding the law of Moses. As I've been asking, If that's not true show me.

I have 1000 times but you refuse to heat it.

The law of Moses is a complete system...

You uphold the righteousness of the law, not the whole law itself, which is all the ordinances, but the righteousness OF the law.
 
You see what the church says is, "I know it's wrong to commit adultery" (for example), "but I'm not under the law anymore because salvation is by grace alone." They, in effect, rationalize sin by this terribly distorted doctrine of law that grips the church these days, not knowing that if one's faith does not uphold this law of Moses you have a faith that can not save you.
 
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I have 1000 times but you refuse to heat it.

The law of Moses is a complete system...

You uphold the righteousness of the law, not the whole law itself, which is all the ordinances, but the righteousness OF the law.
And I plainly showed you where the Bible says you are WRONG and does differentiate between the rIghteous REQUIREMENTS of the law of Moses and the WAY of the law of Moses.

But as long as you keep hearing 'requirements of the law' as the whole complete written literal text and ways of the law of Moses, because of what the indoctrination of the church teaches everybody in the church these days, you will not hear a word I'm saying.
 
(I don't even need to wait for your response to say this...)

Then you say Paul is LYING, right?

"14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”" (Galatians 5:14 NIV)
 
I ask you directly and pointedly....

Does faith in Christ uphold the law of Passover and the Day of Atonement, or not?

Christ fulfilled the Passover by being the sacrificial Lamb.

We have faith in Him that He is our sacrifice for our sins, that Passover pointed to.


JLB
 
(I don't even need to wait for your response to say this...)

Then you say Paul is LYING, right?

"14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”" (Galatians 5:14 NIV)

I believe that the Law of God, that God wanted all men to know, was seen in the law of Moses.

The Law of God to Love, was seen since the beginning.


JLB
 
I ask you directly and pointedly....

Does faith in Christ uphold the law of Passover and the Day of Atonement, or not?
This question illustrates the unfortunate way you have elevated Passover and Atonement above Faith in God.
In reality Passover and Atonement are just Mosaic ways to express Faith in God. Faith in God is the requirement, and as Christians we recognize Jesus Christ as God.
 
This question illustrates the unfortunate way you have elevated Passover and Atonement above Faith in God.
In reality Passover and Atonement are just Mosaic ways to express Faith in God. Faith in God is the requirement, and as Christians we recognize Jesus Christ as God.
You're not following the point we're addressing very well. If you were you would not have said this.

My argument is, faith in Christ upholds the requirements for the Festival cycle and everything else in the law whether the person who has faith realizes it or not.

Now, how is that elevating those things over faith in God?

Me thinks you're still thinking in the vein of the literal law of Moses...the old WAY of fulfilling those things. But that is how the church is conditioned to think when it comes to any discussion about the law because of the way she's been so thoroughly indoctrinated about the law, and which blinds the eyes of so many to the truth and causes them to say "I'm not under the law anymore, salvation is by faith alone, so don't talk to me about what the law says."

"31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." (Romans 3:31 NIV)

Do you want to argue with Paul?
 
I believe that the Law of God, that God wanted all men to know, was seen in the law of Moses.

The Law of God to Love, was seen since the beginning.

JLB
Right...so was circumcision, so was Passover, so was the Day of Atonement, so was........

ALL these get fulfilled when we have faith in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sins and then walk in the fruit of the Spirit as a result.

What does NOT get upheld by faith and walking in the Spirit is the old way--the first covenant way--of fulfilling all those things. But the things themselves DO get fulfilled and upheld. That's what the Bible says so.
 
Christ fulfilled the Passover by being the sacrificial Lamb.

We have faith in Him that He is our sacrifice for our sins, that Passover pointed to.


JLB
That is HOW we uphold Passover.

Passover did not 'vanish away'. It gets upheld when we have faith in Christ. The Feast of Unleavened Bread gets upheld, not brushed away, when the household of God's people cast out the leaven of wickedness and walk in the Spirit instead:

"7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.8 Therefore let us keep the Festival (of Unleavened Bread that immediately follows Passover), not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth." (1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NIV)

This is how faith upholds the law of Moses. What 'vanished away' was the first covenant WAY of upholding the law of Moses for the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and all the rest of the literal Festivals and Sabbaths commanded by God.

The observances didn't 'go away'. The old way of fulfilling them did.
 
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Which should come to mind since it's the part of the Passover that Christ kept that he told the Church to keep after his death in remembrance of him.
 
You're not following the point we're addressing very well. If you were you would not have said this.

My argument is, faith in Christ upholds the requirements for the Festival cycle and everything else in the law whether the person who has faith realizes it or not.

Now, how is that elevating those things over faith in God?

Me thinks you're still thinking in the vein of the literal law of Moses...the old WAY of fulfilling those things. But that is how the church is conditioned to think when it comes to any discussion about the law because of the way she's been so thoroughly indoctrinated about the law, and which blinds the eyes of so many to the truth and causes them to say "I'm not under the law anymore, salvation is by faith alone, so don't talk to me about what the law says."

"31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." (Romans 3:31 NIV)

Do you want to argue with Paul?


"We" in verse 31, is a reference to those who are under the law.

as Paul says just a few verses prior

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law...

Gentile were not under Moses law.

The children of Israel were under Moses law.

Gentiles were under the law of God, as Abraham was.

Were Gentiles required to travel to Jerusalem for the specified feast days and partake of the feasts there at the temple.

Hint: Gentiles were not allowed in the temple area.

Did Abraham travel to Jerusalem to partake of these feast's in the temple?

Answer: No the law of Moses w3asn't added for another 430 years.

How about the traveling Tabernacle? Did the Gentiles have a traveling Tabernacle in their own country, with a Levitical priesthood.

Did the gentile celebrate the passover in their own country, because the lord led them also out of the land of Egypt?

Brother, Gentiles were never under the law of Moses, Never.

Gentiles will never be under the law of Moses, because that law was added UNTIL THE SEED SHOULD COME.

The Seed has indeed come. The law has indeed been set aside, and has vanished away, as animal sacrifices are no longer valid.

God's laws that were around before Moses, are still around today.

The Number One law that He has is to Obey His Voice to walk before Him, in His Presence and learn from Him, Not from the the knowledge of good and evil.


The Jews in Jesus day had chosen to learn good from evil, apart from Him, they learned from the law of Moses and could quote it to you while they crucified the lawmaker.


JLB



JLB
 
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