Jethro Bodine
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The Law, works and keeping his comandments
- Thread starter josefnospam
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
Member
Jethro & Paul: We are under the requirements of the law, upholding them by our faith and obedience in the Spirit. (Romans 3:31)
Jethro & Paul: We are not under the way of the law (the first covenant way to uphold the requirements of law). (example, 1 Corinthians 5:7-8)
Jethro & Paul: We are not under the condemnation of the law (when we walk by the Spirit, thus upholding the law). (Romans 8:4)
You have just been found out, by the scriptures themselves, by Galatians 5, that stating your opinion and "tagging" your opinion with a scripture reference doesn't work, and show you to be guilty of misrepresenting what the scriptures say, as in the case above.
Now you move on to other scripture references, doing more of the same, while ignoring my scripture.
You picked your scripture, and it was found out by just writing out your scripture and reading what Paul says, which was the opposite of what you said.
I will just ignore your post's that continue in this manner.
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
This verse clearly states the law of Moses was added until the seed... until the Seed. Indicating that this law was temporary.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. Galatians 3:19,23-25
To those who were under the law, now that faith has come, they are no longer under the law of Moses [the tutor].
Paul continues this line of thought of being under a tutor...
1 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Galatians 4:1-5
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God. Galatians 4:7 NO LONGER A SLAVE!!!
his verse clearly states that the heir is under a tutor or guardians UNTIL, the time appointed by the father. Indicating again this time is temporary. To redeem those under the law...
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.
Romans 3:21-22
This verse clearly states that faith in Jesus Christ is the righteousness of God apart from the law of Moses.
We are not under the law of Moses!
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
I haven't ignored any of the scriptures you use to defend your doctrine.
What you haven't done in this latest round is explain how Paul can say 'we uphold the law', and then turn right around and say 'we're not under the law'. Obviously, 'under the law' has to mean something different in each case. My doctrine explains it well. Yours does not. Yours insists that 'under the law' means the same as 'uphold the law'. Don't you see the terrible contradiction in that?
I'm not following you. Post the scriptures for me to see what you're talking about.
Yes, the WAY of the law of Moses was added, and was temporary.
We see from 1 Corinthians 5:7-8, for example, that the requirements of the law themselves are not that which was temporary and fading away. Another example is in Hebrews--the 'passing away' of the old system and way of temple, priesthood, and sacrifice, and the Day of Atonement in favor of the same requirements for those things, but now fulfilled in the NEW WAY of the New Covenant.
Right, the WAY of the law was our tutor.
The discipline of the literal Passover, for example, was the tutor that can 'go away' now that the real way of Passover, Jesus Christ the Lamb of God, has appeared. Now we worship and observe the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread THAT way. The requirement didn't go away. The old WAY of observing it went away.
Easily explained as the WAY of the law of Moses imposed on the children of God by the Father until the revealing of Christ to set them free from that futile WAY of worshiping him, and the bondage of the flesh that results from improperly trying to be justified by that old way.
But you ignore the context of the passage that explains that 'apart from the law' means apart from the Isrealites misguided attempt to be justified by the works of the law, not removed from the requirements of the law that Paul himself says get upheld by faith in Christ. We see him explain their misguided attempt here:
"31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal.32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works." (Romans 9:31-31 NIV)
Faith in the blood of Christ to remove sin guilt is completely and utterly opposed to the way of doing righteous things in order to remove sin guilt. That is what 'righteousness (by faith) apart from law' (Romans 4:6) means.
Jethro Bodine
Member
The only scripture you actually posted in this post, is Romans 9:31-32
This post has no context related to our current discussion.
You picked a scripture. I answered showing from the scriptures that Paul said the opposite of what you said.
This scripture does not say The WAY of the law was added, it plainly says the law was added.
There is your ROOT problem, you keep adding your own words to the scriptures to change the meaning, then you keep saying, THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING, when what you have been saying is not what the scriptures says.
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
This verse clearly states the law of Moses was added until the seed... until the Seed. Indicating that this law was temporary.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. Galatians 3:19,23-25
To those who were under the law, now that faith has come, they are no longer under the law of Moses [the tutor].
Paul continues this line of thought of being under a tutor...
1 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.Galatians 4:1-5
Stop adding your words to scripture.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
And I showed you that how you interpret what Paul said contradicts what he says elsewhere.
"14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”" (Galatians 5:14 NIV)
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." (Galatians 5:18 NIV)
How can 'fulfilling the law' in the first verse, and 'not under the law' in the second verse, both be in reference to upholding the law? To say that 'not under the law' means 'not having to fulfill the law, because it doesn't apply to me anymore' causes these two verses to directly contradict each other.
But if you look at the second reference you can see that being led by the Spirit is what releases a person from the condemnation of the law, not from the requirements of the law that he just said get fulfilled when we love. Besides contradicting what he just said in the first reference, that would not even make sense for him to be saying that walking by the Spirit releases a person from the requirements of the law.
The whole context of scripture, as I've been showing you, shows us that it is the WAY of the first covenant that got laid aside and made obsolete by the work of Christ, not the requirements of the law that the old WAY sought to uphold.
"...we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6 NIV)
You insisting that all this means we are no longer 'under the law', as in no longer 'under the requirements of the law', directly contradicts what he plainly says here:
"31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." (Romans 3:31 NIV)
"14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”" (Galatians 5:14 NIV)
"3...he condemned sin in the flesh,4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4 NIV)
"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." (Galatians 5:22-23 NIV)
"8...whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." (Romans 13:8-10 NIV)
These scriptures do not teach our release from the requirements of the law (as you are interpreting 'not under the law'), but rather the satisfaction and fulfillment, not the casting away of the righteous requirements of the law. We plainly see we fulfill the law when we have faith in Christ and walk in the fruit of the Spirit, not remove ourselves from that law as you say.
My doctrine removes any opportunity for contradiction in Paul's teaching. In his teaching we see that it is the way, and the condemnation, and the authority of the law of Moses that we are not 'under' anymore, not the righteous requirements of the law. But your doctrine creates a disturbing contradiction between him saying we fulfill and uphold the law and him saying (as you interpret it) that we are released from upholding the law.
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6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:6
We are certainly not under the law.
Those that were at one time under the law, have been redeemed from the law.
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Galatians 4:4
Now we all have been freed from the law of Moses, so that we serve God by faith as Abraham did, not according to the ordinances of the law of Moses.
We now walk in a righteousness apart from the law, not under the law, apart from the law of Moses.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
Jethro Bodine
Member
Jethro Bodine
Member
There is no law. There is no such law that can condemn someone who walks in the Spirit.
Jethro Bodine
Member