The true teachings of Jesus

[Alfred Persson]

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The meaning of vs 8 is found in vs 10 as when Christ returns all these things will vanish away except for love as love is eternal. We can certainly see that Christ has not returned yet so all those things listed in vs 8 will continue to be done in part as no one has knowledge in the full until He returns then all things will be revealed to us in full.

I agree, but it does not REQUIRE the gifts persist until the coming of Christ. That premise is not necessary to Paul's statement.

For example:

If I promised ice cream cones will pass away when the ice cream factory is built, does not mean the ice cream cone in your hand will not melt and cease.

I only promised ice cream won't be sold in cones once the ice cream factory is built.

 

[hawkman]

I will focus on your direct rebuttal of my argument "was confirmed" = the special gifts only the apostles received (not the entire church) were spoken of "past tense" because they no longer existed from the perspective of the writer of Hebrews.

Your argument "they ceased with the apostles because they were dead" doesn't explain why the writer of Hebrews, speaking to Jews in Church, would say God's confirming His gospel with signs had ended, IF everyone in the congregation still manifested the same "confirming signs" as the Apostles.

So that is what you must explain. Why speak of these special confirming gifts of the Spirit in the past tense, if they were still present in the church reading this epistle.

Was Stephen an apostle ?
Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Was Stephen an apostle ?
Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

But you don't do signs and wonders like that seen in the 1st century.

Where are the websites documenting all the resurrections from the dead? They don't exist. Why? Because no one is doing the same signs and wonders today, as the apostles and Steven did in the 1st century.

In other words, cessationism is the reality. The claims of continuism a strong delusion.

Today we have the completed Bible. It is far better than dreams visions and prophetic revelation could ever be. Anytime you want to know God's will, open your Bible and read it. And then you know.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17 NKJ)

 

[jaybo]

But you don't do signs and wonders like that seen in the 1st century.

Where are the websites documenting all the resurrections from the dead? They don't exist. Why? Because no one is doing the same signs and wonders today, as the apostles and Steven did in the 1st century.

In other words, cessationism is the reality. The claims of continuism a strong delusion.

Today we have the completed Bible. It is far better than dreams visions and prophetic revelation could ever be. Anytime you want to know God's will, open your Bible and read it. And then you know.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-17 NKJ)

Your continual denial of the gifts operating today doesn't mean a thing. The gifts are still operating today -- all of them.

For example, you cite the resurrection of the dead. Apparently you don't have much knowledge of modern medicine, which has frequently brought back people assumed to be dead, using CPR and elector-shock for example.

It's sad that your faith is so weak that you can't accept what is clearly stated in the Bible. All the gifts are functioning today. Period.

 

[for_his_glory]

I asked you the simple question, answer it now. How could the writer of Hebrews say only the Apostles manifested the confirming signs, that the gospel "was confirmed" by what they did....

Which necessitates what the church was doing when Hebrews was written, was NOT the same thing. God's confirming the gospel through signs and wonders and gifts of the Holy Spirit were in the past---"was confirmed".

Logically, what the Apostles did was NOT what the Hebrews were doing when this was written, it happened in the past: Was Confirmed.

You demand an answer from me, but yet ignore my question I asked in post # 255 and the answers I already gave you in post #254 and 259............WOW!!!

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree, but it does not REQUIRE the gifts persist until the coming of Christ. That premise is not necessary to Paul's statement.

For example:

If I promised ice cream cones will pass away when the ice cream factory is built, does not mean the ice cream cone in your hand will not melt and cease.

I only promised ice cream won't be sold in cones once the ice cream factory is built.

As long as we are indwelled with the Holy Spirit we will continue in all the gifts of the Spirit as the Holy Spirit gives and works through us. There is nothing we can do of ourselves.

 

[for_his_glory]

But you don't do signs and wonders like that seen in the 1st century.

Luke 10 Jesus sends 70 men out telling them to heal the sick, cast out demons saying unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. What these men did was showing those of unbelief the signs and wonders of God as they did believed in the power and authority of Christ in and also building up the faith in many as they went about healing and casting out demons by the power and authority Jesus gave them. These signs and wonders have never ceased as many of us by the power and authority through the Holy Spirit have healed the sick and have cast out demons. If God wanted us to raise the dead for His purpose then we would also do that. So no. the signs and wonders have never ceased no matter what false doctrine you want to follow.

 

[for_his_glory]

In other words, cessationism is the reality. The claims of continuism a strong delusion.

Stephen and the 70 prove cessationism is nothing more than doctrines of devils as we have most surely proven to you by those who were not part of the 12 Apostles that continued and still continue today in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit that were first given to the Apostles and have continued from the first command of Christ who first sent out the Disciples until today and forever until Christ returns.

 

[hawkman]

I will focus on your direct rebuttal of my argument "was confirmed" = the special gifts only the apostles received (not the entire church) were spoken of "past tense" because they no longer existed from the perspective of the writer of Hebrews.

This has been your number one saying, " only the apostles " and it is the standard thing to say if you believe in cessationism . I believe you can stop saying that now .

Was Stephen an apostle ?
Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Yes or no question and I got a "but" .

But you don't do signs and wonders like that seen in the 1st century.

I have spoke as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance . I have seen my own daughter healed from two different problems after prayer . Alfred Persson, you do not know what I have seen and been in the middle of .

Where are the websites documenting all the resurrections from the dead? They don't exist. Why? Because no one is doing the same signs and wonders today, as the apostles and Steven did in the 1st century.

Wow we now have a non-apostle in the mix ! Stephen. Let's see if we can add one more to that list, Philip .
Acts 8:6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

Was the Philip spoken of in Acts 8:6 an apostle ? Yes or No .

In other words, cessationism is the reality. The claims of continuism a strong delusion.

In other words, cessationism is your reality because you want it to be your reality .

 

[keiw1]

Wisdom is a quality. Jesus isn't a quality. I asked if you know the difference between being made wisdom and made wisdom to us and apparently you don't know the difference.

Believe the truths i share. They are real.

 

[keiw1]

Do you commune with your heavenly Father?

I pray.

 

[keiw1]

Right. "the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth"; that is how they will worship.

However, I wrote: exactly what do you mean by "God". I'm perfectly serious. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, God in the flesh, these spiritual essence of God, or ..? Not how people will worship, but who is "God".

You didn't answer the question by stating whom people will worship. And you didn't include the first part of John 4:24, "God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Jesus points all to his Father only. Believe him.

 

[keiw1]

so even though you have not read any of those verses I posted you would rather believe they are in error!!!

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Do you just pick scripture out of the air as neither one of those two scriptures say anything about Jesus saying anything about any errors. What you do not realize is that JW's have rewritten their own Bible adding to and taking away from scripture. I know this for a fact as my sister was involved with them at one time, but then realized the errors of The Watchtower Organization which teaches that it is God's sole earthly representative.

This is their teaching on the Trinity as it's no wonder that you refute those scriptures I gave you.

They do not believe in the Trinity. Instead, they follow a strict monotheism, in which: Jehovah is the Supreme Being. Jesus is the Son of God, a created being. Christ is believed to have originally existed in a pre-human state as the Archangel Michael. He later took human form as a man like any other person, except that he was sinless at birth and remained so throughout his earthly life. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. They believe that after the crucifixion, Christ died and was resurrected as an invisible, non-material, glorious, spirit creature. They believe that Jesus appeared on earth after his resurrection in a special body that Jehovah created for him.

The Holy Spirit they believe, is not a separate entity, but is simply a force: the method by which God interacts with the world.

The son of destruction( peredition)2Thess 2:3) rose up= the great apostasy= the religion that came out of Rome. And has 33,998 branches. A house divided will not stand.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I pray.

Yes, but do you have a personal relationship with God? Is He your friend, do you speak to him about your concerns, problems?

17 Unless the LORD had been my help, My soul would soon have settled in silence.
18 If I say, "My foot slips," Your mercy, O LORD, will hold me up.
19 In the multitude of my anxieties within me, Your comforts delight my soul. (Ps. 94:17-19 NKJ)

7 Hear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice! Have mercy also upon me, and answer me.
8 When You said, "Seek My face," My heart said to You, "Your face, LORD, I will seek."
9 Do not hide Your face from me; Do not turn Your servant away in anger; You have been my help; Do not leave me nor forsake me, O God of my salvation.
10 When my father and my mother forsake me, Then the LORD will take care of me.
11 Teach me Your way, O LORD, And lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies.
12 Do not deliver me to the will of my adversaries; For false witnesses have risen against me, And such as breathe out violence.
13 I would have lost heart, unless I had believed That I would see the goodness of the LORD In the land of the living.
14 Wait on the LORD; Be of good courage, And He shall strengthen your heart; Wait, I say, on the LORD! (Ps. 27:7-14 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

Your continual denial of the gifts operating today doesn't mean a thing. The gifts are still operating today -- all of them.

For example, you cite the resurrection of the dead. Apparently you don't have much knowledge of modern medicine, which has frequently brought back people assumed to be dead, using CPR and elector-shock for example.

It's sad that your faith is so weak that you can't accept what is clearly stated in the Bible. All the gifts are functioning today. Period.

What human technology accomplishes is irrelevant, immaterial and incompetent to your claim God is raising the dead though your prophets and apostles today, as He did in the NT.

If the special gifts only the apostles and prophets chosen by Christ in the 1st century to found Christianity were still continuing today, you would be able to list who was raising the dead today just as they did. You cannot because no one is raising the certifiably dead. Like Christ did after rigor mortis set in, with Lazarus.

 

[Alfred Persson]

You demand an answer from me, but yet ignore my question I asked in post # 255 and the answers I already gave you in post #254 and 259............WOW!!!

All the more reason you stop evading my question, to prove how much better you are than me.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Believe the truths i share. They are real.

You believe God had to create his own wisdom.

 

[keiw1]

Yes, but do you have a personal relationship with God? Is He your friend, do you speak to him about your concerns, problems?

17 Unless the LORD had been my help, My soul would soon have settled in silence.
18 If I say, "My foot slips," Your mercy, O LORD, will hold me up.
19 In the multitude of my anxieties within me, Your comforts delight my soul. (Ps. 94:17-19 NKJ)

7 Hear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice! Have mercy also upon me, and answer me.
8 When You said, "Seek My face," My heart said to You, "Your face, LORD, I will seek."
9 Do not hide Your face from me; Do not turn Your servant away in anger; You have been my help; Do not leave me nor forsake me, O God of my salvation.
10 When my father and my mother forsake me, Then the LORD will take care of me.
11 Teach me Your way, O LORD, And lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies.
12 Do not deliver me to the will of my adversaries; For false witnesses have risen against me, And such as breathe out violence.
13 I would have lost heart, unless I had believed That I would see the goodness of the LORD In the land of the living.
14 Wait on the LORD; Be of good courage, And He shall strengthen your heart; Wait, I say, on the LORD! (Ps. 27:7-14 NKJ)

Well of course.
Every spot=LORD is-YHWH is the true God=Jehovah, Jesus' Father.

 

[keiw1]

You believe God had to create his own wisdom.

Some of Prov 8 is about Wisdom. Some is speaking about Gods master worker= The being God sent = named Jesus as a mortal is the one speaking.

 

[jaybo]

Believe the truths i share. They are real.

Say you with pure modesty!