Under Grace not Under Law

[JLB]

And the way of righteousness has been shown to you. Forgiveness of sins and the way of redemption has been shown to you.. but yet “law keepers” refuse to repent, so “that your sins may be blotted out..” Acts 3:19. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed.. by the righteousness of Christ and His merits alone God sets forth as a propitiation by His blood through faith, the forgiveness of sins; for He will save His people from their sins.. Romans 3:21. Matthew 1:21. These truths are not believed by those who hold and teach conditional salvation. They do not believe that Christ and He alone can save. Their lack of repentance is evident in their self righteous law keeping as the means of justification. And shows why if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain. Galatians 2:21. So in conclusion, the conditional Salvationist have not come to repentance or believed the gospel of Christ. For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:3-4.

Do you understand that the righteousness according to faith, is by obeying God?

Would you like me to break it down for you from the scriptures, line upon line, precept upon precept?

You seem to keep implying that people who walking in the obedience of faith are
"law keepers", as if anyone can keep the law of Moses.

Or maybe you think the 10 Commandments originated with Moses.

It would great if you would actually address the scriptures I post, rather that misrepresenting what I say.

IOW, stop trolling me.



JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Hi Papyrus, Men have so mingled in the Scriptures their Adamic reasoning, that they have completely left out grace and replaced it with works and pride. They use grace as a definition of their own reasoning, when grace in Scripture is a celestial virtue of our creator. (1 Cor. 13:1-13) comes as close to a definition of grace as The Cross of Christ is an act of it.

God is the law, and His law is eternal. Without it, the world would ensue in chaos (which is evident where law is not kept). Man can not keep God's laws. The purpose of God's law was to show we needed God, but the pride of man wanted to show God how perfect he was before God, even to this day, men pride themselves by thinking they keep God's laws. (but no man is righteous.......no, not one). Some denominations pride themselves on keeping (a commandment) like the SDA, But the other nine have to be obeyed to the letter to be perfect. But now we are under the law through Christ, in whom, having His Spirit we now have an advocate who has put the Law in our minds and Spirit of grace from the penalty of the Law with an eternal high priest....it is the New Covenant of Grace. The Book of Hebrews / Romans 3:31; 7:1-8:13.

The pride and ego of men has always sought to rule the world hasn't it? We think therefore we are.....able to....corrupt the true mercy of God and the truth in his son Jesus Christ. I feel for that lost damned dead in its sin soul. Paving its way to Hell one false word at a time.
And God see's the effort to call others to follow.
God knows his own and we are not moved. “In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven” Matthew 5:16

 

[GodsGrace]

Indeed, no time hoping to correct falsity is ever wasted either. . Revocable Salvation and works salvation teaching is heresy, as a brother recognized early on. God's word is discerned by those who are his. It wasn't written for the atheists, and those who hate God and his truth. The parable of the sower teaches this. Mark 4

"We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers..." 1 Timothy 1:9

Mark 4:11-12 And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that “they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.”

Are you, by inference, saying I hate God and his truth?

 

[PeterJens]

The parts that you ignore, claiming they were not written by Paul. This is a pointless conversation, you have already very plainly stated to me that You don't believe the parts of the bible that contradict your beliefs. It's just two completely different viewpoints. You know like the Muslims and the Jews, Both claim to be the rightful seed of Abraham. I happen to believe the Bible is the infallible word of God, others pick and choose. I just leave them alone, if the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the pit. Oh wait, I can't quote Jesus, he was speaking to the Jews, that's not applicable to you.

This is a part of theology that confuses me.
Just think about this a bit. Jesus was talking to Jews, and He himself was a Jew.
The apostles were all Jews and recorded all Jesus's words so all believers would know what He said.
So let us suppose He was just addressing the Jews. Where His spiritual principles and words valid to
them and everyone who know God, or just a way of goading a failed system? If you take the goading
argument, what is the Kingdom and its point? And do Paul, Peter, James, John agree with Jesus or
continue this goading?

Jesus said we should have a pure heart, so we can see God.
Peter said we should be Holy as God is Holy.
James says we should not just have faith, but actually love others.
Jesus says we must love from the heart, forgive from the heart, obey and follow.
Paul said He followed Christ and we should follow His example.
Paul called his own behaviour pure, blameless and an example of christian living.

Now strangely those who deny Jesus's words also have no problem with continual sinful life styles
and behaviour. Repentance and confession is thrown out, along with humbleness, but wealth,
exploitation, greed, power are all in, culminating in the church ruling the world through super saints.
What matters to them is success and Gods empowering of it. It is a self fulfilling prophecy because
those who succeed, continue to give to the preachers who grow wealthy, while encouraging more giving
and losing the losers who God does not bless, therefore they are failures and not in Gods plan.

So if you want to get rich and have a prosperous ministry, preach this, because if the mugs believe it
and enough join the band wagon, you have made it. And if you preach the truth and live a righteous life
not surprisingly things will be tough. And it is these people they will pour abuse on, like they are the worst
evil people in the whole world. If you want judging by fruit, thorns and thistles could not be described better.

 

[Jim Parker]

Thank you.
The Amplified Bible has: "No one born [begotten] of God [deliberately and knowingly] habitually practices sin." 1 John 3:9

That's a very good rendering of the meaning of the text.
Imho

iakov the fool

 

[GodsGrace]

This is a part of theology that confuses me.
Just think about this a bit. Jesus was talking to Jews, and He himself was a Jew.
The apostles were all Jews and recorded all Jesus's words so all believers would know what He said.
So let us suppose He was just addressing the Jews. Where His spiritual principles and words valid to
them and everyone who know God, or just a way of goading a failed system? If you take the goading
argument, what is the Kingdom and its point? And do Paul, Peter, James, John agree with Jesus or
continue this goading?

Jesus said we should have a pure heart, so we can see God.
Peter said we should be Holy as God is Holy.
James says we should not just have faith, but actually love others.
Jesus says we must love from the heart, forgive from the heart, obey and follow.
Paul said He followed Christ and we should follow His example.
Paul called his own behaviour pure, blameless and an example of christian living.

Now strangely those who deny Jesus's words also have no problem with continual sinful life styles
and behaviour. Repentance and confession is thrown out, along with humbleness, but wealth,
exploitation, greed, power are all in, culminating in the church ruling the world through super saints.
What matters to them is success and Gods empowering of it. It is a self fulfilling prophecy because
those who succeed, continue to give to the preachers who grow wealthy, while encouraging more giving
and losing the losers who God does not bless, therefore they are failures and not in Gods plan.

So if you want to get rich and have a prosperous ministry, preach this, because if the mugs believe it
and enough join the band wagon, you have made it. And if you preach the truth and live a righteous life
not surprisingly things will be tough. And it is these people they will pour abuse on, like they are the worst
evil people in the whole world. If you want judging by fruit, thorns and thistles could not be described better.

 

[Jim Parker]

That there is an effort in the world to take the actual Redemption message, the Good News, and turn it into the work of the Devil, which is what it is when teachers claim the saved can sin like Sodom with no worries of Hell, does not mean the Good News is affected.

I know of alleged "pastors" and others who teach that exact message.
May God have mercy.

 

[JLB]

Conditional Salvation is heresy.

If there is no condition for salvation such as repent, believe... then that would mean your Universal Salvation message is truth.

But since it's not and has no basis from scripture, then unconditional salvation is rightly called Heresy.


Please do not promote unconditional salvation or Universal Salvation in this forum.


Thank you.

JLB

 

[MCoop]

Do you understand that the righteousness according to faith, is by obeying God?

Would you like me to break it down for you from the scriptures, line upon line, precept upon precept?

You seem to keep implying that people who walking in the obedience of faith are
"law keepers", as if anyone can keep the law of Moses.

Or maybe you think the 10 Commandments originated with Moses.

It would great if you would actually address the scriptures I post, rather that misrepresenting what I say.

IOW, stop trolling me.



JLB

Law keepers do not walk in faith. They do not believe the gospel. And haven’t come to repentance. Any breakdown of scripture according to modern day Judaizers is man centered. Never lifting up Christ Jesus as the center of ones faith. All wolves need to be marked and called out, to warn the elect of their leaven

 

[JLB]

Law keepers do not walk in faith.

Since I don't see anyone in this Forum claiming works salvation, then I guess your talking about someone on another Forum.

Law keepers do not walk in faith. They do not believe the gospel. And haven’t come to repentance. Any breakdown of scripture according to modern day Judaizers is man centered. Never lifting up Christ Jesus as the center of ones faith. All wolves need to be marked and called out, to warn the elect of their leaven

Please call out and mark any Judaizers that promote keeping the law of Moses in this Forum. I don't know of any myself.

Who are these Judaizers on this Forum?


Name them so we can all be made aware.


JLB

 

[ezra]

curious how many more post will it take to determine we re under grace and not law

 

[JLB]

curious how many more post will it take to determine we re under grace and not law

We are under grace. That is clear.

However, as I have tried to do, defining what grace is and getting everyone to agree, seems to be the challenge.


JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

curious how many more post will it take to determine we re under grace and not law

It should not take any more when Jesus taught it over 2000 years ago.
What is that old wisdom? The definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over expecting a different result?
The truth is not of interest to that which remarks in heretical teachings and renounces the truth in scripture over and over again is it?

 

[JohnDB]

Let's stick with posting scriptures to support arguments and keep personal messages to other forums.

 

[JLB]

It should not take any more when Jesus taught it over 2000 years ago.

Yes agreed.

Jesus summed up who will receive eternal life, 2000 years ago.

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


JLB

 

[Papyrus_dust]

https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/90-183/salvation-is-irrevocable-part-1
https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/90-183/salvation-is-irrevocable-part-2

 

[Douglas Summers]

Do you see Grace as being the power of God granted to us, that enables us to do what we were helpless to do without it?

IOW Grace is the Holy Spirit.The Spirit of Grace

Grace teaches us:

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Titus 2:11-14


If we are under Grace, doesn't that mean we are under obligation to obey what the Spirit of Grace teaches us, as well as what He leads us to do?

Again, here is what the grace of God teaches us, about salvation:

...teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

Can we a least consider these words and reconcile them into our teaching ?


JLB

Yes.

 

[MCoop]

Since I don't see anyone in this Forum claiming works salvation, then I guess your talking about someone on another Forum.



Please call out and mark any Judaizers that promote keeping the law of Moses in this Forum. I don't know of any myself.

Who are these Judaizers on this Forum?


Name them so we can all be made aware.


JLB

Modern day Judaizers are those who deny the gospel of Christ by promoting conditional salvation based on mans works of obedience

 

[Papyrus_dust]

curious how many more post will it take to determine we re under grace and not law

AMEN!

All scripture is God breathed. Countering his divine inspired truth is not wise.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," 2 Timothy 3:16


God's grace saves. How can God revoke what he gave to people he knew before they were born?
"...a gift of grace, a gift involving grace" (charis) on the part of God as the donor, is used (a) of His free bestowments upon sinners, Romans chapters5:15,16;6:23;11:29...

God's words are clear and have been so for over 2000 years. Romans 6:14


37 Scriptures That Prove Christians Are Not Under The Law

Jesus died to deliver the message of irrevocable salvation. The only way any sinner damned and dead in their sins shall come to that understanding is if they are led by God to seek his son. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:44

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." -Mark 1:15

 

[JohnDB]

Modern day Judaizers are those who deny the gospel of Christ by promoting conditional salvation based on mans works of obedience

James 1:25