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Under Grace not Under Law

Jim Parker said:
That's a very good rendering of the meaning of the text.
Imho

iakov the fool
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I thought so as well. It is very precise and offered so as to preclude any confusion or false rendering of its truth by those who are truly open to God's calling to repent and be saved. :) I'm glad you liked that version brother.

MCoop said:
Modern day Judaizers are those who deny the gospel of Christ by promoting conditional salvation based on mans works of obedience
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And those I've met are iron strong in their resolve to never budge.

Question: "If our salvation is eternally secure, why does the Bible warn so strongly against apostasy?"

Answer: The Bible teaches that everyone who is born again by the power of the Holy Spirit is saved forever. We receive the gift of eternal life (John 10:28), not temporary life. Someone who is born again (John 3:3) cannot be “unborn.” After being adopted into God’s family (Romans 8:15), we will not be kicked out. When God starts a work, He finishes it (Philippians 1:6). So, the child of God—the believer in Jesus Christ—is eternally secure in his salvation.

However, the Bible also contains some strong warnings against apostasy. These warnings have led some to doubt the doctrine of eternal security. After all, if we cannot lose our salvation, why are we warned against falling away from the Lord? This is a good question. First, we must understand what is meant by “apostasy.”

An apostate is someone who abandons his religious faith. It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received Him as Savior. They were pretend believers. Those who turn away from Christ never really trusted Him to begin with, as 1 John 2:19 says, “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” Those who apostatize are simply demonstrating that they are not true believers, and they never were....Full Article http://www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html



MCoop said:
Law keepers do not walk in faith. They do not believe the gospel. And haven’t come to repentance. Any breakdown of scripture according to modern day Judaizers is man centered. Never lifting up Christ Jesus as the center of ones faith. All wolves need to be marked and called out, to warn the elect of their leaven
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For the sake of those who may not know. And it has scriptural support.
Question: "Who were the Judaizers?" http://www.gotquestions.org/Judaizers.html
 
MCoop said:
Law keepers do not walk in faith. They do not believe the gospel. And haven’t come to repentance. Any breakdown of scripture according to modern day Judaizers is man centered. Never lifting up Christ Jesus as the center of ones faith. All wolves need to be marked and called out, to warn the elect of their leaven
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My experience is that those who actively seek to obey Jesus' commands and encourage others to obey Him as well are falsely accused of being "law keepers" and "Judaizers."
 
Has This Passage Ever Bothered You?
Galatians 5:4 - Can Believers Fall From Grace?
by Bob Wilkin
People who teach that it is possible to lose your salvation normally use several prooftexts. At first glance the verses do appear to prove their point. However, upon further study it becomes clear that they have taken the verses out of context and forced a meaning upon the text which the author never intended. A case in point is Galatians 5:4.
I have had people point to Galatians 5:4 and say, "Doesn't Paul say that at least some of the Galatian Christians had fallen from grace? And, if they could fall from grace, so can we today."

How did they take the verse out of context?

We would agree that the book is addressed to Christians (Galatians 1:6,9; 5:1).

We would also agree that some of the readers had fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4) and some were on the verge of doing so (Galatians 5:2).

We would even agree that it is possible for believers today to fall from grace. The text clearly does not limit this falling to the Galatian Christians only. Any Christian who reverts to seeking to be justified by law has fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).

The problem is in the conclusion we draw, not in the premises. The whole issue here is what falling from grace means. Does it mean that the believers in question have fallen from their positional standing in grace? If it does, then Paul contradicts himself because in other passages he clearly states that is impossible (cf. Romans 8:38-39; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; Colossians 2:13-14; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 2 Timothy 2:13). Since scripture is God's Word, it cannot contradict itself. Thus, whatever Paul meant by falling from grace he did not mean falling from one's position as a child of God.

Is there not another obvious alternative, one which fits the context and Pauline and biblical theology perfectly? Falling from grace means that a believer who reverts to pharisaical thinking and practices has fallen from a present experience of grace. While our position in the grace of God is secure, our experience of His grace is not.

If a believer today is unwittingly duped into joining a works-salvation cult, he will cease to experience God's grace until he leaves the cult. In fact, if a believer joins any group, cult or otherwise, which teaches that we must produce good works in order to maintain our salvation, he will cease to experience grace. Even the linking of assurance to the quality of our lives can lead a believer to fall from a daily experience of grace.

Falling from grace is a real problem today. May we proclaim the gospel and assurance clearly so that we can help people begin anew or continue to experience God's grace in their daily lives.


 
Papyrus_dust said:
It is clear from the Bible that apostates are people who made professions of faith in Jesus Christ but never genuinely received Him as Savior.
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There is no such clear statement that they never genuinely received Him as savior.
In the parable of the sower, those represented by the seed which fell on rocky ground received the gospel with joy and believe.

Luk 8:13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

And those who fall among weeds do not produce fruit.

Luk 8:14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

And we are told at John 15:2 that those who do not produce fruit are cut off from Jesus by the Father. Then we are told that, since they do not remain (abide) in Christ (the true vine) they wither, die , are gathered up and thrown into the fire. (Hell?)

Yet these two classes truly believed.

That the Father cuts off from the vine (Christ) those branches (believers) which do not produce fruit contradicts the idea that God will not cast anyone out.

The OSAS version of the "preservation of the saints" is not supported by the whole teaching of scripture.
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. (1Cor 10:12)


iakov the fool
 
MCoop said:
Modern day Judaizers are those who deny the gospel of Christ by promoting conditional salvation based on mans works of obedience
Click to expand...

Salvation is conditional upon repenting and believing.

Believe means obey.

If a person says the believe the Gospel, but do not obey the Gospel then their believing can not save them.

So we see that unconditional salvation is not a biblical doctrine and those who do not obey the Gospel will be the object of God's wrath on that Day.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

  • in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel

Do you know what the scriptures say about those who claim to "know God", but do not obey His commandments?


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


JLB
 
ezra said:
your trying to convince the wrong person ..i know in whom i have believed and i also know i am under grace
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I wasn't meaning to direct it at you. Rather, to support your pov with the article and 37 scriptures. I apologize for not making my intent more clear. If I can edit to that effect I shall.
 

Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. (Colossians 3:9-10 )

“...for God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.”
Romans 11:29​

I think the contentious counter argument that is arising in this discussion of the truth that we are under grace not under law is maybe to be put right so as to put an end to it. This way we can proceed to discuss in the love of Christ as sisters and brothers in Christ.

In short, the salvation message of Christ is clear. Taking it apart so as to charge if this isn't done then it isn't this, is parsing the truth of God in order to arrive at a position that imparts in its effort, Christians aren't actually saved. That intent evident in the push of the revocable salvation heresy, the Judaiser works salvation push, and any other manifestation that may arise or that has been missed in that list.

33754-bible1200.400w.tn.jpg


Dictionaries - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology - Faith
Faith [N] [T] [E]
Belief, trust, and loyalty to a person or thing. Christians find their security and hope in God as revealed in Jesus Christ, and say "amen" to that unique relationship to God in the Holy Spirit through love and obedience as expressed in lives of discipleship and service.

For instance, it is unnecessary to observe faith without faithfulness is not faith. It's a no brainer that that is true. Because of the meaning of "Faith". ..https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/faith/

“The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”
Mark 10:26-27



“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast.”
Ephesians 2:8-9




Salvation comes only through faith in Christ. God said this. John 3:16-18
Romans 10:9-10
1 Thessalonians 5:9
Acts 4:9-12

The heresy of revocable salvation necessarily implies we do something to gain our salvation. And therein we can do something to lose it. How can we do something to reject God's grace , by his pre-ordination, and predestination, for us and our salvation as he said of it? By our own will we can conquer God's will and plan?

Our salvation comes through faith in Christ alone. And as said, and supported with scripture earlier, no one comes to Christ but the father call him there. So, for the revocable salvation model, that would mean we can essentially "hang up the phone?" "reverse charges back to God's calling because hey, spending eternity in Hell is so much better?"

The revocable salvation heresy forgets in its zeal that the Christian did not choose Jesus. Jesus, who was the father in the flesh (Matthew 1:23), chooses us.
John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Ephesians 1:4
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love


“For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit”1 Peter 3:18

Luke 11:11-13
1 Peter 2:24
2 Corinthians 5:21

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 
JLB said:
Salvation is conditional upon repenting and believing.

Believe means obey.

If a person says the believe the Gospel, but do not obey the Gospel then their believing can not save them.

So we see that unconditional salvation is not a biblical doctrine and those who do not obey the Gospel will be the object of God's wrath on that Day.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

  • in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel

Do you know what the scriptures say about those who claim to "know God", but do not obey His commandments?


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


JLB
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Unconditional salvation is salvation by grace. This is where law keepers refuse to believe that their works plays no role or bases as the grounds for justification. Salvation is all of grace, conditioned solely on the grounds of Christ Jesus’s merits of righteousness alone received by faith alone.. this is what they don’t believe. And is why a perverted meaning of grace is espoused by these modern day Judaizers. They are still under law, and not under God’s merciful grace in Christ. So therefore still under God’s wrath
 
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