Under Grace not Under Law

[Papyrus_dust]

Unconditional salvation is salvation by grace. This is where law keepers refuse to believe that their works plays no role or bases as the grounds for justification. Salvation is all of grace, conditioned solely on the grounds of Christ Jesus’s merits of righteousness alone received by faith alone.. this is what they don’t believe. And is why a perverted meaning of grace is espoused by these modern day Judaizers. They are still under law, and not under God’s merciful grace in Christ. So therefore still under God’s wrath

Unconditional Salvation is all the gift of God's grace. And that which Jesus died to seal for eternity under the blood covenant he made with his people. I.E. those who are IN him.
I was speaking with an avowed atheist not long ago. Avowed because they saw the cross dangling from my rear view mirror and approached me as I was getting out of the car informing me of that fact before they continued their remarks.
"Why is it you Christians leave pamphlets out for anyone to read about your Jesus?"
Because sometimes what is written is easier for some to accept than what is demonstrated or said by those who are in Christ, I replied.
I then offered them a Bible that I carry as a box full in the trunk.
This site link also has an audio sermon player so as to hear the message of,
Seven Proofs of Unconditional Salvation
There are only two ways of eternal life - God's way or Satan's counterfeit. Either God gives eternal life as a free and unconditional gift, or man must perform conditions of faith or works to obtain it.
If man must do anything, then God's grace is ruined, man becomes his own saviour, religious financing determines eternal destiny, and Satan has robbed Jesus Christ of His glory!

Proof #1: Man has no natural desire or ability to obey or please God for salvation.

Proof #2: God expressly denies man's will or works in obtaining salvation.

Proof #3: Faith and works are results of salvation, not conditions or means for it.

Proof #4: Jesus Christ saves sinners by Himself without any human cooperation.

Proof #5: The gospel and its ordinances were never intended to give eternal life.

Proof #6: The Bible gives examples of sinners saved without any conditions.

Proof #7: Unconditional salvation is the only doctrine giving God all the glory.

 

[JLB]

Unconditional salvation is salvation by grace.

Salvation is conditional upon repenting and believing.

Believe means obey.

If a person says the believe the Gospel, but do not obey the Gospel then their believing can not save them.

So we see that unconditional salvation is not a biblical doctrine and those who do not obey the Gospel will be the object of God's wrath on that Day.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

• in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel

Do you know what the scriptures say about those who claim to "know God", but do not obey His commandments?


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Don’t see what you are trying to get across by this scripture

James 1:25 is one of many scriptures that talk about faith causing a person to perform good works. James gives a long dissertation about faith vx works vx religious behavior. And anyone wanting to expound upon this discussion must address what James has said or he will have gaping holes in his Theology.

I pointed out this verse as it's one of several points that James culminates one of many thoughts.

 

[MCoop]

Unconditional Salvation is all the gift of God's grace. And that which Jesus died to seal for eternity under the blood covenant he made with his people. I.E. those who are IN him.
I was speaking with an avowed atheist not long ago. Avowed because they saw the cross dangling from my rear view mirror and approached me as I was getting out of the car informing me of that fact before they continued their remarks.
"Why is it you Christians leave pamphlets out for anyone to read about your Jesus?"
Because sometimes what is written is easier for some to accept than what is demonstrated or said by those who are in Christ, I replied.
I then offered them a Bible that I carry as a box full in the trunk.
This site link also has an audio sermon player so as to hear the message of,
Seven Proofs of Unconditional Salvation
There are only two ways of eternal life - God's way or Satan's counterfeit. Either God gives eternal life as a free and unconditional gift, or man must perform conditions of faith or works to obtain it.
If man must do anything, then God's grace is ruined, man becomes his own saviour, religious financing determines eternal destiny, and Satan has robbed Jesus Christ of His glory!

Proof #1: Man has no natural desire or ability to obey or please God for salvation.

Proof #2: God expressly denies man's will or works in obtaining salvation.

Proof #3: Faith and works are results of salvation, not conditions or means for it.

Proof #4: Jesus Christ saves sinners by Himself without any human cooperation.

Proof #5: The gospel and its ordinances were never intended to give eternal life.

Proof #6: The Bible gives examples of sinners saved without any conditions.

Proof #7: Unconditional salvation is the only doctrine giving God all the glory.

Yes I completely agree!

 

[Papyrus_dust]

James 1:25 is one of many scriptures that talk about faith causing a person to perform good works. James gives a long dissertation about faith vx works vx religious behavior. And anyone wanting to expound upon this discussion must address what James has said or he will have gaping holes in his Theology.

I think it would benefit our discussion greatly if you would encapsulate James dissertation as you understand it. Blessings and thank you in advance.

 

[JLB]

Salvation is all of grace,

Now we see the true fruit of your Universal Salvation message, which is HERESY.

Salvation is most certainly not all grace.

It is grace through a persons faith.

Without faith there is no appropriating God's grace.

Therefore it is of faith that it might beaccording to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all Romans 4:16

And again


For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:8

Without believing there is no salvation.


Salvation is based on the condition of obedience.

Obeying the Gospel.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Unconditional Salvation is all the gift of God's grace.

Unconditional Salvation is nothing more than Universal Salvation.

Salvation is only available to those who believe.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life John 3:16

• that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

JLB

 

[reba]

Over and over in these threads i have read God's gifts are irrevocable over and over .. I read it is 'free' we need do nothing it is 'free.
.. according to that teaching how does Romans 5:18 fit in .. I read MCoop 's post ,,, What i want to understand from osas Christians what does one have to do to gain this 'free;' that come upon all men...


Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

[MCoop]

James 1:25 is one of many scriptures that talk about faith causing a person to perform good works. James gives a long dissertation about faith vx works vx religious behavior. And anyone wanting to expound upon this discussion must address what James has said or he will have gaping holes in his Theology.

I pointed out this verse as it's one of several points that James culminates one of many thoughts.

Yes and salvation by grace alone results in works of obedience. Ephesians 2:10. It is the mere fruit as a result of the life giving power of Christ’s resurrection bestowed on the believer by grace. But ones works of obedience is not the grounds for justification. Christ Jesus and His merits of righteousness are the grounds for a believers justification

 

[MCoop]

Unconditional Salvation is nothing more than Universal Salvation.

Salvation is only available to those who believe.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life John 3:16

• that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

JLB

It’s because the understanding of God’s grace that saves is foreign to those who believe their works plays a role as the grounds for justification. The natural mind cannot receive this, much less believe it

 

[Papyrus_dust]

It’s because the understanding of God’s grace that saves is foreign to those who believe their works plays a role as the grounds for justification. The natural mind cannot receive this, much less believe it

You forgot the scripture to support that truth brother.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

 

[MCoop]

Over and over in these threads i have read God's gifts are irrevocable over and over .. I read it is 'free' we need do nothing it is 'free.
.. according to that teaching how does Romans 5:8 fit in .. I read MCoop 's post ,,, What i want to understand from osas Christians what does one have to do to gain this 'free;' that come upon all men...


Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Conditional Salvationist do not BELIEVE that Christ and He alone justifies and brings redemption. So why keep insisting that your “faith” means anything? There is no faith in the gospel from “law keepers” is the whole point. So what is being argued is fruitless. Because the synergistic view of salvation is heresy and nullifies grace and does away with faith by making void the cross of Christ

 

[ezra]

I think it would benefit our discussion greatly if you would encapsulate James dissertation as you understand it. Blessings and thank you in advance.

very simple JUST do what the word tells us... do it not just hear it.... here is a question before this reaches another 13 pages .. how many have failed along the way to be a doer of the word. we hear it but how well have we always responded ? seen somebody posted the seeds and what type soil they fell on... any one ever think at one point or more points than we care to admit ..we heard the word through message sunday school lesson private devotions ..just maybe it fell on shallow ground . Hosea i believe it is tells us to break up our fallow ground.. how many times have we fell short of being the doer of the word?? 2

 

[Jim Parker]

Who’s taught faith without faithfulness on this thread?

It it is commonly presented by those who insist that good works, including obedience to Jesus, is not required for salvation.
That is a misdirection. (Probably not intentional)
We were created for good works. (Eph 2:10)
We are not saved by doing good works. (Eph 2:9)
But neither will we be able to say that Jesus is our Lord if we do not do as He commands. (Luke 6:46)
Faithfulness requires doing (doing is work, by the way) what our Lord has commanded us to do.
That is the prerequisite to hearing our Lord say to any of us, "Well done, good and faithful servant;" (Mat 25:21, 23; Luke 19:17)

And it is a conflation of two realities: Eternal Life and Salvation.
By His death and resurrection Jesus saved all of mankind from physical death. (2 Ti 1:10)
Only those who do good works will be given eternal life. (Mat 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, Ro 2:6-10)

God has saved all of mankind from eternal, physical death. (the grave) All will be resurrected.
He has done so by the power of His grace.
By His grace we have been saved. (Eph 2:8)
And by His will, we were created to do good works. (Eph 2:10)
Those who are not faithful to do God's will for them will not be given eternal life. (Mat 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, Ro 2:6-10)
Instead, they will be sent to the second death. (Mat 25:42-43, Rev 21:8)

If faith does not result in good works on the part of the believer then it will not save him. (James 2:24)

And that's the way I see it.

iakov the fool

 

[MCoop]

You forgot the scripture to support that truth brother.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Thank you!

 

[JohnDB]

I think it would benefit our discussion greatly if you would encapsulate James dissertation as you understand it. Blessings and thank you in advance.

I wish I could...
But I'm in the middle of making reindeer food and sugar cookies for Santa. It's Christmas Eve and I've got these cute little ginger headed neices that need my attention.

But I think that some of the others here on this forum could do that tonight if you need them to.

 

[reba]

Conditional Salvationist do not BELIEVE that Christ and He alone justifies and brings redemption. So why keep insisting that your “faith” means anything? There is no faith in the gospel from “law keepers” is the whole point. So what is being argued is fruitless. Because the synergistic view of salvation is heresy and nullifies grace and does away with faith by making void the cross of Christ

That does not answer the question .. Where did i say my faith meant anything? Nor have i implied so .. Except to say my faith is one of those irrevocable gifts...
Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[reba]

The Christian game of using Scripture for snarks is alive and well ....

 

[JohnDB]

It it is commonly presented by those who insist that good works, including obedience to Jesus, is not required for salvation.
That is a misdirection. (Probably not intentional)
We were created for good works. (Eph 2:10)
We are not saved by doing good works. (Eph 2:9)
But neither will we be able to say that Jesus is our Lord if we do not do as He commands. (Luke 6:46)
Faithfulness requires doing (doing is work, by the way) what our Lord has commanded us to do.
That is the prerequisite to hearing our Lord say to any of us, "Well done, good and faithful servant;" (Mat 25:21, 23; Luke 19:17)

And it is a conflation of two realities: Eternal Life and Salvation.
By His death and resurrection Jesus saved all of mankind from physical death. (2 Ti 1:10)
Only those who do good works will be given eternal life. (Mat 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, Ro 2:6-10)

God has saved all of mankind from eternal, physical death. (the grave) All will be resurrected.
He has done so by the power of His grace.
By His grace we have been saved. (Eph 2:8)
And by His will, we were created to do good works. (Eph 2:10)
Those who are not faithful to do God's will for them will not be given eternal life. (Mat 25:31-46, John 5:28-29, Ro 2:6-10)
Instead, they will be sent to the second death. (Mat 25:42-43, Rev 21:8)

If faith does not result in good works on the part of the believer then it will not save him. (James 2:24)

And that's the way I see it.

iakov the fool

"Away from me you doers of iniquity"
Isn't that in the Matthew passage you referred to?

 

[MCoop]

That does not answer the question .. Where did i say my faith meant anything? Nor have i implied so .. Except to say my faith is one of those irrevocable gifts...
Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

I answered it on page 7 when you first ask it