Understanding Mary - Ever Virgin

[Mungo]

Understanding Mary - Ever Virgin

Although the Perpetual Virginity of Mary has never been formally proclaimed as a Marian Dogma of the Catholic Church, because of its universal acceptance and continued reference to it in Papal documents throughout the history of the Catholic Church (and at the 5th Ecumenical council), it has come to be accepted as a Marian Dogma. Consequently, it can be said that the perpetual virginity of Mary is a Catholic Dogma by virtue of the ordinary and universal Magisterium.

It was also accepted by the Orthodox and by the early "reformers".

Martin Luther:
"It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin....Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact." (Weimer, The Works of Luther, English Transl. by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v.11,pp. 319-320; v. 6 p. 510.)

"Christ...was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him..."brothers" really means "cousins" here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers. (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4, 1537-39.)

"He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb...This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that." (Ibid.)

John Calvin:
"There have been certain folk who have wished to suggest that from this passage (Matt 1:25) that the Virgin Mary had other children than the Son of God, and that Joseph then dwelt with her later; but what folly this is! For the gospel writer did not wish to record what happened afterwards; he simply wished to make clear Joseph's obedience and to show also that Joseph had been well and truly assured that it was God who had sent His angel to Mary. He had therefore never dwelt with her nor had he shared her company....And besides this Our Lord Jesus Christ is called the first-born. This is not because there was a second or a third, but because the gospel writer is paying regard to the precedence. Scripture speaks thus of naming the first-born whether or not there was any question of the second." (Sermon on Matthew 1:22-25, published 1562.)

Ulrich Zwingli:
"I esteem immensely the Mother of God, the ever chaste, immaculate Virgin Mary....Christ...was born of a most undefiled Virgin." (Stakemeier, E. in De Mariologia et Oecumenismo, Balic, K., ed., Rome, 1962, p. 456.)

"I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin." (Zwingli Opera, Corpus Reformatorum, Berlin, 1905, in Evang. Luc., v. 1, p. 424.)

The next post will start the arguments for Mary's perpetual virginity. There are 6 of them.

 

[jaybo]

"They're supposed to be "pure", which of course no woman can live up to".

Lol! Now that is unbiblical.

Of course it's unBiblical; that is the problem.

Take a look at the concept of Marianismo. It is a stigma put on Catholic women that says they must be like Mary. If they fail to do that, abuse follows.

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Tenets of Marianismo are characterized by Latinas' beliefs and behaviors such as self-denial, maintaining their virginity for marriage, subjugation to the men in their lives, sacrificing for their children, endurance of suffering from their husbands, and putting the needs of others first.

 

[God Is My Judge]

I will not be put to shame- the End time Elect will not be put to shame.
Isaiah 54:
Future Blessings for Zion

1“Shout for joy, O barren woman,

who bears no children;

break forth in song and cry aloud,

you who have never travailed;

because more are the children of the desolate woman

than of her who has a husband,”

says the LORD.
2“Enlarge the site of your tent,

stretch out the curtains of your dwellings,

do not hold back.

Lengthen your ropes

and drive your stakes in deep.

3For you will spread out to the right and left;

your descendants will dispossess the nations

and inhabit the desolate cities. ( You all have no clue what's coming and just where you will end up.)

4Do not be afraid, for you will not be put to shame;

do not be intimidated, for you will not be humiliated.

For you will forget the shame of your youth

and will remember no more the reproach of your widowhood.

5For your husband is your Maker—

the LORD of Hosts is His name—

the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer;

He is called the God of all the earth.

6For the LORD has called you back,

like a wife deserted and wounded in spirit,

like the rejected wife of one’s youth,”

says your God.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Of course it's unBiblical; that is the problem.

Take a look at the concept of Marianismo. It is a stigma put on Catholic women that says they must be like Mary. If they fail to do that, abuse follows.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tenets of Marianismo are characterized by Latinas' beliefs and behaviors such as self-denial, maintaining their virginity for marriage, subjugation to the men in their lives, sacrificing for their children, endurance of suffering from their husbands, and putting the needs of others first.

And by denying who Mary is, is going to fix all that? How bout this Jaybo, address what I have put forth in this discussion, concerning the Truth about Mary. You haven't as has no one else for that matter. Avoidance is very telling. I never said I agree with the demand of Marianismo, I never brought it up nor was that in your response directly, that I responded to. But if by choice they want to take a vow of celibacy and want to remain not (known) to a man, that is their choice. As for the abuse of those women, to me that is not surprising. Women should not be working that closely with men they are not married to. Goes for the world work force too. The same sexual harassment occurs their. Try to be self sustaining concerning earning an income and serve Christ outside those Catholic brothels or get married and know scripture is for marriage. The problem with silly women- no street smarts, they think men are not men and can't exhibit a lack of self control. Foolish virgins.

 

[GodsGrace]

Quote whatever man you want. I put the scriptures in a mathematical equation which supports my claims. These men have not. Unless you cannot do math or they can't it has been made pretty clear.
The Immaculate Conception
491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:
And he believed it was in her mother's womb, contrary to the teaching of scripture. His assertion is aligned with a 2nd century book. Fact. How about this, since you want me to reiterate what I have said in here already, you prove his stance with scripture.

Again,
Please post, in scripture, that Mary BECAME IMMACULATE, at Gabriel's announcement.

Please post the clear teaching of scripture...
Thanks.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Again,
Please post, in scripture, that Mary BECAME IMMACULATE, at Gabriel's announcement.

Please post the clear teaching of scripture...
Thanks.

Madonna mia! Madonna mia, guarda in quale occasione ci siamo dovuti incontrare.

Signoria Wondering, tu pravore la pazienza di Dio che sa aspettare il peccatore e mai smette di amarlo.

I will do another off the fly break down starting from the beginning of scripture.
Ciao.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Again,
Please post, in scripture, that Mary BECAME IMMACULATE, at Gabriel's announcement.

Please post the clear teaching of scripture...
Thanks.

Are saying she is not? Are you saying your men used scripture when they devised their doctrine of Immaculate Conception? Yes or No! Answer that first.

 

[God Is My Judge]

Again,
Please post, in scripture, that Mary BECAME IMMACULATE, at Gabriel's announcement.

Please post the clear teaching of scripture...
Thanks.

Are saying she is not? Are you saying your men used scripture when they devised their doctrine of Immaculate Conception? Yes or No! Answer that first................ Waiting........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[jaybo]

And by denying who Mary is, is going to fix all that? How bout this Jaybo, address what I have put forth in this discussion, concerning the Truth about Mary. You haven't as has no one else for that matter. Avoidance is very telling. I never said I agree with the demand of Marianismo, I never brought it up nor was that in your response directly, that I responded to. But if by choice they want to take a vow of celibacy and want to remain not (known) to a man, that is their choice. As for the abuse of those women, to me that is not surprising. Women should not be working that closely with men they are not married to. Goes for the world work force too. The same sexual harassment occurs their. Try to be self sustaining concerning earning an income and serve Christ outside those Catholic brothels or get married and know scripture is for marriage. The problem with silly women- no street smarts, they think men are not men and can't exhibit a lack of self control. Foolish virgins.

I don't understand your rambling response. I'm not denying who Mary was, I am telling the Biblical truth about her.

I have no idea what you're driving at when you write about women taking a vow of celibacy. Are you referring to nuns?

Then you change the subject about abuse of "those women". Which women? Nuns?

It's simply your opinion that women should not be working that closely with men they are not married to. Why not? Can't they work without fear of sexual harassment?

Finally, writing that "the problem with silly women- no street smarts, they think men are not men and can't exhibit a lack of self control. Foolish virgins" is one of the oddest things I have read on any forum. Ever.

 

[God Is My Judge]

I don't understand your rambling response. I'm not denying who Mary was, I am telling the Biblical truth about her.

I have no idea what you're driving at when you write about women taking a vow of celibacy. Are you referring to nuns?

Then you change the subject about abuse of "those women". Which women? Nuns?

It's simply your opinion that women should not be working that closely with men they are not married to. Why not? Can't they work without fear of sexual harassment?

Finally, writing that "the problem with silly women- no street smarts, they think men are not men and can't exhibit a lack of self control. Foolish virgins" is one of the oddest things I have read on any forum. Ever.

Lol! Ok there dude. If only your head games worked on me.

Jaybo said :"Finally, writing that "the problem with silly women- no street smarts, they think men are not men and can't exhibit a lack of self control. Foolish virgins" is one of the oddest things I have read on any forum. Ever."

Then you don't get out much. Life is full of surprises.

 

[God Is My Judge]

And by denying who Mary is, is going to fix all that? How bout this Jaybo, address what I have put forth in this discussion, concerning the Truth about Mary. You haven't as has no one else for that matter. Avoidance is very telling. I never said I agree with the demand of Marianismo, I never brought it up nor was that in your response directly, that I responded to. But if by choice they want to take a vow of celibacy and want to remain not (known) to a man, that is their choice. As for the abuse of those women, to me that is not surprising. Women should not be working that closely with men they are not married to. Goes for the world work force too. The same sexual harassment occurs their. Try to be self sustaining concerning earning an income and serve Christ outside those Catholic brothels or get married and know scripture is for marriage. The problem with silly women- no street smarts, they think men are not men and can't exhibit a lack of self control. Foolish virgins.

To add..... if they were more concerned with true virginity

2 Corinthians 11:2 I am jealous for you with a godly …​

For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy: for I espoused you to one husband, that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ. Aramaic Bible in Plain English

Point is, most take that vow as more of a holier-than-thou vow. Spiritual virginity concerning being born again and abiding, is what's most important, celibate or not. Fidelty to Christ rather than men's false doctrines is what all are called to. Celibacy is just a suggestion by Paul to avoid getting caught up in only the matters of your husband or wife. And due to the situation- Paul knew about firsthand (the persecution of the church) , he thought a good thing to avoid strife. Nothing worse than seeing your spouse and/or children martyred. Avoiding marriage helps focus on those matters of God without distraction. It was never a command.

 

[GodsGrace]

Quote whatever man you want. I put the scriptures in a mathematical equation which supports my claims. These men have not. Unless you cannot do math or they can't it has been made pretty clear.
The Immaculate Conception
491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, "full of grace" through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:
And he believed it was in her mother's womb, contrary to the teaching of scripture. His assertion is aligned with a 2nd century book. Fact. How about this, since you want me to reiterate what I have said in here already, you prove his stance with scripture.

YOU have some proving to do Judge.
What I'm saying is that IF you're going to post Catholic doctrine,
make sure it IS what the CC teaches.

If your posting some thoughts of your own...then you can tell us where you get the information from.
If you do neither, then our conversation is ended.

 

[GodsGrace]

Everything because dew is associated with bread from heaven. So DUH! of course it has everything to do with how the Most High performs over those of the camp of Israel- Mary! Hello! The funny thing is, the concepts for Mary being the Ark of the New covenant is taken from the OC. Emphasizing what was purposed by God for the New. When I do it, it suddenly is not so. Yet you are defending the Catholic stance of Mary as Ark of the New covenant? Say what you want, that is a fact jack!~ Even your guys formulate their doctrines concerning her being the NC ark by referencing the old. Like, your point? Just another hater.

I really don't know what you're talking about.
Blessings to you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Madonna mia! Madonna mia, guarda in quale occasione ci siamo dovuti incontrare.

Signoria Wondering, tu pravore la pazienza di Dio che sa aspettare il peccatore e mai smette di amarlo.

I will do another off the fly break down starting from the beginning of scripture.
Ciao.

What does the above have to do with you providing support for your idea that Mary became immaculate at Gabriel's annunciation?

Where does it state this in the New Testament?

You should be able to post scripture that upholds your ideas.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are saying she is not? Are you saying your men used scripture when they devised their doctrine of Immaculate Conception? Yes or No! Answer that first.

This is not kindergarten Judge.
You can stop posting to me.

 

[GodsGrace]

Are saying she is not? Are you saying your men used scripture when they devised their doctrine of Immaculate Conception? Yes or No! Answer that first................ Waiting........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Mary was most probably born without original sin.
I can't imagine Jesus being in the body of a person who still retains the sin nature.
The question becomes WHEN did Mary become immaculate.
I prefer to believe the CC instead of your silly claims.

 

[jaybo]

Mary was most probably born without original sin.
I can't imagine Jesus being in the body of a person who still retains the sin nature.
The question becomes WHEN did Mary become immaculate.
I prefer to believe the CC instead of your silly claims.

Mary was most probably born with original sin. Every person except Jesus was born with original sin.

I prefer to believe the Bible instead of your false RCC claims.

 

[God Is My Judge]

People aren't going to like this. But as you can tell I don't care I have but one husband not many. This will now bring you to the understanding of the 10 Virgins.
Matthew 25:

The Parable of the Ten Bridesmaids​

25 “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be compared to ten maidens (Virgins) who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them; 4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. 6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7 Then all those maidens (Virgins) rose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise replied, ‘Perhaps there will not be enough for us and for you; go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast; and the door was shut. 11 Afterward the other maidens (Virgins) came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12 But he replied, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

YOU have some proving to do Judge.
What I'm saying is that IF you're going to post Catholic doctrine,
make sure it IS what the CC teaches.

If your posting some thoughts of your own...then you can tell us where you get the information from.
If you do neither, then our conversation is ended.

Who said it was Catholic? It's Christian for sure because I don't post lies. And I don't answer to you I answer to Christ! Like, who are you? I need not prove anything to you. I can post whatever I feel like as everyone else is in this discussion and none of it is Catholic that they post. Mine certainly is not as I said, it is Christian from the foundation. If you as a Catholic want to adhere and apply it, your choice. It is clear what the parable of the 10 Virgins is about and I'm not one the foolish ones. And listen up Gestapo if you can't figure out where it comes from then clearly you need to get some oil. Like who died and made you boss? Oh and don't have to have a conversation with me, who said you had to? I know where to get my oil. I posted my claims and upheld them with scripture. I don't jump through hoops for you, like really, who do you think you are? And I'll keep putting the song given me out there, everywhere and anywhere on this footstool in whatever means God finds necessary . Capiche!

 

[God Is My Judge]

I really don't know what you're talking about.
Blessings to you.

I'm already blessed. Sorry you are not blessed with reading comprehension. I pray you be blessed with that.

 

[God Is My Judge]

What does the above have to do with you providing support for your idea that Mary became immaculate at Gabriel's annunciation?

Where does it state this in the New Testament?

You should be able to post scripture that upholds your ideas.

Did, go back and read.

 

[God Is My Judge]

This is not kindergarten Judge.
You can stop posting to me.

Ok. And you are right this not kindergarten, you are trying to roll with one in the big leagues. However, you not even in kindergarten as you said.