Understanding The Law Of Moses - With The Help Of The Prophets And The Apostles

[eddif]

Colossians 2 might be a needed discussion.

eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The parable of the sower is without all you posted.

If I do not have it wrong, your John 12 quote is not part of the parable of the sower.
The parable of the sower is just about physical seeds, grout condition, crop yield.

The John 12 passage is about his death and resurrection. Verse 23 turns the conversation to himself.

Yes we must die similar to Jesu, but IMHO there are some differences.

The difference is Jesus isn't the "One who
needed" to die, die to self. We are.

The dance through all this is tedious.

It certainly is. Our Lord putting to death the desires of mans' flesh through which Satan temps doesn't mean God condoned murder.

We are talking about the Law and not the death of Jesus.

eddif

What do you think he died to? His death was by not enforcing the law against sinners. On earth, he could have accused, convicted and sentenced any sinner to death without condemning Himself. We on the other hand

are become dead to the law...by the body of Christ.....Rom.7:4

We've repented (which God also doesn't need to do) and condemn no one because of his teaching and example.

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. Gal.2:19

If people aren't repentant, or look down their noses on others, they are still alive to the law.

 

[eddif]

The difference is Jesus isn't the "One who
needed" to die, die to self. We are.

Nor my will, but thine be done.(talking to his Father).

To accomplish our salvation he had to die on the cross. His human part wanted to avoid the suffering death on the cross. Unless he was planted, the harvest of saved people would not come.

He bore our sins on the cross, but not his sins.

I still say we are probably in agreement. Just some ego poking through at times.

rddif

 

[eddif]

The difference is Jesus isn't the "One who
needed" to die, die to self. We are.

It certainly is. Our Lord putting to death the desires of mans' flesh through which Satan temps doesn't mean God condoned murder.

What do you think he died to? His death was by not enforcing the law against sinners. On earth, he could have accused, convicted and sentenced any sinner to death without condemning Himself. We on the other hand

are become dead to the law...by the body of Christ.....Rom.7:4

We've repented (which God also doesn't need to do) and condemn no one because of his teaching and example.

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. Gal.2:19

If people aren't repentant, or look down their noses on others, they are still alive to the law.

Without the law there is no knowledge of sin. That is a statement of scripture. What I might think contrary to that would be wrong.

Well again. Elihu thought that man had knowledge. God inferred Elihu had no knowledge and brushed aside his chapters long speech and talked to Job instead. There is no natural Godly nature normall in man. That is an eastern mysticism belief. Do you want me to try and take you through the Elihu information. I learned the hard way that took 15? Years. Would be my joy to try and help.

eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Without the law there is no knowledge of sin. That is a statement of scripture. What I might think contrary to that would be wrong.

Well again. Elihu thought that man had knowledge. God inferred Elihu had no knowledge and brushed aside his chapters long speech and talked to Job instead. There is no natural Godly nature normall in man. That is an eastern mysticism belief.

Knowing good from evil is natural Godly nature and even before that, Adam could think and reason which are Godly characteristics bestowed by God on all mankind.

Do you want me to try and take you through the Elihu information. I learned the hard way that took 15? Years. Would be my joy to try and help.

eddif

Thank you eddif, but the Book of Job isn't a mystery to me. It's only confusing if the gospel the Messiah taught is misunderstood.
Everything Elihu and Jobs' 3 friends said is true, but they misapplied the truth.

While it's true all men are sinners, Job was being unjustly persecuted because of his faithfulness.
Up to that point, Job had only heard about the loving God of all mankind, but then sees him. John says he saw God as Christ suffered.

 

[gordon777]

Paul is showing how Jesus could have used the law to condemn those who sinned against him, but chose not to.

Its funny how Ed and others show they do not like such a long post that I gave, and what is brought up from that long long post is part of a sentence from it.

I know it was a very long sentence, but as shown again in that sentence below, Jesus Christ declares Himself to be the fulfilment of the promise made before the law, which shows the law is irrelevant to all things, but what drew us near to God, which is only the Messiah.

All of these debates, disputes, are perverse, just see those testimonies below again also.


"But now the righteousness of God is manifested to be without that same law, ( of sin and death by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:2.) which is what was WITNESSED BY THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS, which is even the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WITHOUT THE LAW, ( because the Son of God came declaring the righteousness of the Father. Psalm 40:10.) which is by faith of Jesus Christ, ( Christ declared the faithfulness of the Father. Psalm 40:10.) unto and upon all them that believe, ( in the name declared. John 17:26.) because all had sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. ( who were in the law of sin and death) to be justified freely by HIs grace and redemption in Christ Jesus, as God had prophesied of giving HIs Son as propitiation for faith in HIs blood, ( Isaiah 53:10. Zechariah 9:11) to declare HIs righteousness for the remission of past sins because of Gods forbearance. ( faithfulness)"




Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

[gordon777]

God in the old Testament said " This day I set before you life or death, choose life". After reading the Bible I seem to think he has not changed. It seems to me God keeps trying to make it easier to get into heaven and mankind keeps trying to make it harder. Today I see the same choice God stated in the old testament. Choose the New Covenant or the Old covenant for life or choose neither for death. There is no choice for mixing the two covenants one must choose.

It is not God that has changed, from when God told the people of Israel to choose life, if you remember about John 1, and the power to be born not of the will of man, but of God is given, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME.

That is of course why the Son of God came declaring the name of the FATHER.


John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
13 WHICH WERE BORN, NOT of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.




So no, nobody could choose the old covenant for life, there was no life in the law.

But the scripture concluded all under sin, so that promise of faith ( the promises of life given to Abraham and to the seed which is one, and that one is Christ which was to come.) might be given to them that believe. ( ON HIS NAME)

Looking at exactly what the law did to us, ( and does to those in it now) they are kept in it, shut up, without the faith come to them, not revealed to them.

The law brings us to Christ, when faith is revealed to us, if anyone seeks justification in this life. ( by Jesus Christ, all that believe in Him/even in his name, are justified from all things, from which you could NOT BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW OF MOSES.)



Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.




Sorry that I have to repeat John 1, but it is necessary.

Those of the old covenant, were and are in the will of man, this part is essential to see the difference, of when the will of God was given to man to be born of God. ( which is when man is not born of blood) and it is believing in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Now see the rest of that testimony, of HIs own will HE BEGAT US WITH THE WORD OF TRUTH, ( that is exactly why grace and truth came by Jesus Christ, not the law given by Moses) to be the kind of FIRSTFRUITS of His CREATURES, and man in wrath ( debate, strife, dispute, contention.) does NOT WORK THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD. The word is able to save our souls, we have to meekly RECEIVE IT. (But as many as RECEIVED HIM, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME)


John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
13 WHICH WERE BORN, NOT of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT is CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE H HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and RECEIVE WITH MEEKNESS THE ENGRAFTED WORD WHICH IS ABLE TO SAVE YOUR SOULS.

 

[gordon777]

If you guys, or some of you want to turn away from this point for you, that Jesus Christ being crucified ( HAVINVG ABOLISHED IN HIS FLESH) is the end of the law contained in ordinances, and how God made peace in Himself, to make ONE NEW MAN, it sounds like the old man talking in his discussions here.

What do you think ten, fifteen, twenty years of discussion on forums can avail and reveal ?

For one time at least seem to notice the interesting testimony below in the verses how they join together, to testify about us, how we were children in BONDAGE, ( in understanding before Christ) under those elements of the world, ( the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances.) but when the FULNESS OF THE TIME WAS COME, God sent forth His Son made under the law, to redeem us to receive Him to receive the adoption of sons.

Read and see what is told, why discuss instead of hear the testimony that gives us life if we believe in it , the law made nothing perfect ( the Son of God was therefore MADE UNDFER THE LAW, AS THE LAW MADE NOTHING PERFECT) and THAT bringing in of a BETTER HOPE, draws us near to God.

Now the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness has hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

BUT God has in DUE TIMES ( BUT when the FULNESS OF THE TIME WAS COME, God sent forth His Son made under the law, to redeem us to receive Him to receive the adoption of sons.) manifested his word through preaching, committed unto apostle Paul according to the commandment of God our Saviour.



Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Galatians 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

 

[eddif]

Its funny how Ed and others show they do not like such a long post that I gave, and what is brought up from that long long post is part of a sentence from it.

I know it was a very long sentence, but as shown again in that sentence below, Jesus Christ declares Himself to be the fulfilment of the promise made before the law, which shows the law is irrelevant to all things, but what drew us near to God, which is only the Messiah.

All of these debates, disputes, are perverse, just see those testimonies below again also.


"But now the righteousness of God is manifested to be without that same law, ( of sin and death by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:2.) which is what was WITNESSED BY THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS, which is even the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WITHOUT THE LAW, ( because the Son of God came declaring the righteousness of the Father. Psalm 40:10.) which is by faith of Jesus Christ, ( Christ declared the faithfulness of the Father. Psalm 40:10.) unto and upon all them that believe, ( in the name declared. John 17:26.) because all had sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. ( who were in the law of sin and death) to be justified freely by HIs grace and redemption in Christ Jesus, as God had prophesied of giving HIs Son as propitiation for faith in HIs blood, ( Isaiah 53:10. Zechariah 9:11) to declare HIs righteousness for the remission of past sins because of Gods forbearance. ( faithfulness)"




Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

the only thing I know to try is this:
The great commission.
Matthew 28:18 kjv
18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Three verses. The last comprehensive statement Jesus gave the Disciples.

gordon777

These short 3 verses cover the whole of what the disciples had to present to the world. The three verses cover everything to be known.
If I stopped here in this post I would have covered everything needed to be covered.

Can you tell me how this statement is true.

What do the verses cover?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[journeymanisnothing]

the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WITHOUT THE LAW,

"Righteous without the law" is to show

the fruit of the Spirit.....love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

This doesn't mean law isn't irrelevant. It means Gods' feelings for us displayed by his Son postponed judgement,

...mercy rejoiceth against judgment. Jas.2:3

 

[Thekjv]

If you guys, or some of you want to turn away from this point for you, that Jesus Christ being crucified ( HAVINVG ABOLISHED IN HIS FLESH) is the end of the law contained in ordinances, and how God made peace in Himself, to make ONE NEW MAN, it sounds like the old man talking in his discussions here.

What do you think ten, fifteen, twenty years of discussion on forums can avail and reveal ?

For one time at least seem to notice the interesting testimony below in the verses how they join together, to testify about us, how we were children in BONDAGE, ( in understanding before Christ) under those elements of the world, ( the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances.) but when the FULNESS OF THE TIME WAS COME, God sent forth His Son made under the law, to redeem us to receive Him to receive the adoption of sons.

Read and see what is told, why discuss instead of hear the testimony that gives us life if we believe in it , the law made nothing perfect ( the Son of God was therefore MADE UNDFER THE LAW, AS THE LAW MADE NOTHING PERFECT) and THAT bringing in of a BETTER HOPE, draws us near to God.

Now the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness has hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

BUT God has in DUE TIMES ( BUT when the FULNESS OF THE TIME WAS COME, God sent forth His Son made under the law, to redeem us to receive Him to receive the adoption of sons.) manifested his word through preaching, committed unto apostle Paul according to the commandment of God our Saviour.



Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Galatians 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

t is not God that has changed

That is what I said. and I agree that old covenant will not save a person.

 

[eddif]

1 Corinthians 15:22 kjv
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The law explains first physical fruits, but it is in the form of a shadow of something yet to come. Jesus is The First Fruit of the Grave.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

That is what I said. and I agree that old covenant will not save a person.

I’m okBut.
But What?
But What About This? Because Of someone reading A Prophet that write During The Time Of The Law ?

Acts 8:26-39 kjv
This is about a person reading an Old Testament prophet, and having a Question.
And God sending someone With the Gospel answer. , that led toward salvation.

Mississippi Redneck
eddif

 

[Thekjv]

I’m okBut.
But What?
But What About This? Because Of someone reading A Prophet that write During The Time Of The Law ?

Acts 8:26-39 kjv
This is about a person reading an Old Testament prophet, and having a Question.
And God sending someone With the Gospel answer. , that led toward salvation.

Mississippi Redneck
eddif

So Isaiah wrote of Jesus.
And the one sent was a disciple of Christ not a Jew under the Law. Jesus was spoke of in Deu. The new covenant is what God provided to us and it replaced all of the old covenant not in part.

 

[eddif]

So Isaiah wrote of Jesus.
And the one sent was a disciple of Christ not a Jew under the Law. Jesus was spoke of in Deu. The new covenant is what God provided to us and it replaced all of the old covenant not in part.

You can say it about your way.

I was pointing out that after Pentecost (eunuch), the shadows in the law were still at work drawing people to Jesus. In the case of Stephen an angel was involved.

I do not promote needing the law. I do promote seeing certain aspects of the law are not totally gone. Is the law rapidly going away? Yes.


I am not a Messianic Jew, as defined by some, but there is an inward Jew.

Romans 2:28 kjv
28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise isnot of men, but of God.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

So Isaiah wrote of Jesus.
And the one sent was a disciple of Christ not a Jew under the Law. Jesus was spoke of in Deu. The new covenant is what God provided to us and it replaced all of the old covenant not in part.

Absolutely Isaiah wrote of Jesus.
The one sent was a Jew that had been born again (as a Christian).

Ok I might as well get in some trouble.
We all see through dark sunshades (through a glass darkly).

Maybe even:
Calvin
Luther
Others

1 Corinthians 3:4 kjv
4. For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5. Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6. I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

1 Corinthians 12:15 kjv
15. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16. And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17. If the whole body were an eye, were werethe hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18. But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

Stop. I understand there are false brothers. Look at the dark sunshades first, then consider the bad guys.

eddif

 

[light breeze]

That said. This thread is not trying to get anyone circumcised or follow the law of Moses. But. We may discuss all aspects and why for a time it was done. The reasons why will be discussed.

Matthew 5:17 kjv
17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

You want to say that Matthew 5:17 contradicts Romans 4:5 ?

 

[eddif]

You want to say that Matthew 5:17 contradicts Romans 4:5 ?

Matthew 5:17 kjv
17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Romans 4:5 kjv
5. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7. Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

I never intentionally say one scripture contradicts another scripture. I do know I may have problems seeing parallels at times. I try (sometimes it takes years) to resolve what seems (in the minds of others to be a contradiction)to be fully understood.

We now see through a glass darkly but then face to face.

1 Corinthians 13:12 kjv
12. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I am limited in punctuation skills. From what I gather (so do others).

You care to just go ahead and make a statement?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

You want to say that Matthew 5:17 contradicts Romans 4:5 ?

I missed you were a new member.

Welcome aboard.

Some people find some of my statements to be hard to understand (almost impossible?).

It is suggested that I should be asked ( can you say it another way).

I use creation biology, creation techtonics,etc.

Romans 1:20

eddif

 

[eddif]

light breeze
Go to the new member forum and introduce yourself.

You just happened to find eddif up front. Sorry about that. I am so into symbolism, and to ultimate realities, that at the same time can be confusing.

I think the law says the same thing as much New Testament scripture. It is sure open to discussion.

Anatomy and Physiology?

eddif