Was Paul Heretical in Teaching Sinless Perfection?

[Free]

If it is impossible, what is the point of trying ?

Because that is the whole point. If we don't try, we don't grow in holiness; if we don't try, we aren't truly saved (remember 1 John 1:7-10).

Paul wrote..."And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:1-3)

Are you still dead in trespasses and sins ?
Are you still walking according to the course of this world ?
Is the spirit of disobedience still in you ?
Are you still by nature a child of wrath ?
If not, you are sinlessly perfect, made righteous by faith in Christ.
And these verses apply to you..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:" (Rom 3:21-22)

Yet, none of that says we are now morally perfect and sinless. We have been delivered from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Christ, but we still live in this world, in the flesh with its sinful desires and passions. We are covered by the blood of Christ, which means we are justified and are secure in Christ.

What this does is breaks the power of sin in our lives; we can choose to not sin and grow in holiness, through the power of the Holy Spirit. But nowhere is it promised in the Bible that in this life, before we enter heaven, that we are now perfect and sinless or that we can attain that. Sin will be a continual struggle until we die.

2Ti 2:14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.
...
2Ti 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
...
2Ti 2:22 So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (ESV)

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (ESV)

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we [continually] confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (ESV)

Such warnings for believers are abundant throughout the NT, but would be pointless nonsense if believers are already perfectly sinless.

Got faith ?

Of course.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I will try to help reconcile some of this…..

History is sometimes hard to get the feel of what was going on….putting yourself in that time period 2000 years ago, in a completely different culture and set of circumstances and not only a different language but a Pagan language that did not have Christian religious terms or moral precepts….So the Apostles were tasked with having to adapt the Pagan words to reflect Christian concepts. Even some thing as simple as the Greek word for sin had no moral implications so they had to modify the definition of it. So it takes some study of all this to understand what they were writing about.

Part of it is realizing just how drastic a change Christianity was. Besides the fact that a God was walking and living among us. Besides the fact that the context of morality was changing, not only the specifics of it but also the spirit of it. For example Yeshua would never approve of a father selling his daughter as a sex slave…..concubine. Which was allowed under the Mosaic Law. That kind of spirit does not make it into the New Covenant. Christ rejected the general “hard heartedness” of the Mosaic Law and the Old Covenant.

It hard for us today to put ourselves in their place and fully understand the burden and reality of the Mosaic Law. Alternatively it is hard to understand the drastic change of being “disconnect” from the Mosaic Law. And the Apostles were Jews and were still referencing the Law, it is in the back of their minds. Now their understanding of sin is pretty much the same as ours, except it is mostly and specifically a transgression against God the Father.

Yahweh gave all authority to Yeshua….regarding us. (That does not mean He stepped down from His throne and picked up a broom and started sweeping the floors….Yahweh is still God Almighty.) When Christ redeemed us our transgressions were redirected from Yahweh to Yeshua. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). Yeshua will judge our transgressions. But the Apostles were still juggling the differences between the Mosaic Law and Christ’s teachings. Where as technically the errors of Christians are not sins….against God the Father. If you are in Christ you cannot sin against God the Father. This is their perspective when they are writing.

Then we get into the blood and sacrifice of Yeshua and what that did to the whole system of sin in the Old Testament, the whole system of sin and tally that was never erased. For Christians Yeshua not only took that tablet and erased the sins, He broke the tablet. No longer would our sins be written on that tablet.

So the Apostles used the word sin and not always in this context and it can get a little confusing but try to understand it from their perspective. The morality of it all is clear even though the words in the verse may seem to say Christians cannot sin….you do not want to perceive it like you cannot see the forest for the trees. You have to look at the big picture.

What you are not going to find is a verse that says a homosexual Christian is not sinning or a Christian that murders is not sinning etc.

The big picture of sin and judgment…
2nd Corinthians 5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Again....If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1st John 1:8-9

But also consider the context….God so loved the world….John 3:16.…He loved the world enough to give his only begotten Son to go through a horror to make things right….God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 This whole big picture is about God wanting a relationship with us because He loves us. So as Christians we should do our best to be good and do good and expect a just and merciful Judgment from Christ. Walk with Christ everyday. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead…1st Peter 1:3

Thank God we can walk in the Spirit, instead of in the flesh, since the resurrection of Christ !

 

[Consecrated Life]

Yep the Mosaic Law did not start in Genesis. But the Mosaic Law defined the Old Covenant.

Yes, the incongruity of some Mosaic Laws which were never "Approved" by God .
God's disapproval of certain Mosaic laws being easily seen beginning with Genesis.
Thus Jesus was not only vocalizing the disapproval of God with certain Mosaic Laws that were such from the moment before the ink was dry , but also placing the blame for their creation squarely on the corrupt nature of the human heart.


Mat 19:8
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

 

[Grailhunter]

OT, or NT ?
Or both ?

New Testament

 

[Hopeful 2]

Because that is the whole point. If we don't try, we don't grow in holiness; if we don't try, we aren't truly saved (remember 1 John 1:7-10).

But, according to your understandings, "trying" does no good.
What is the use of going from an 85% sinner to a 25% sinner ?
Why not go from a 99% sinner to a 0% sinner ?
Thank God for allowing it !
Repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and rebirth from God's seed facilitates it.

Yet, none of that says we are now morally perfect and sinless. We have been delivered from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Christ, but we still live in this world, in the flesh with its sinful desires and passions. We are covered by the blood of Christ, which means we are justified and are secure in Christ.

If men are still walking in the flesh, they will be sent to the lake of fire.
Sinners are delivered from nothing.
Only the truly repentant will be delivered.
The "flesh" you cite as the reason for sinning, can be destroyed at its "immersion" into Christ and His death and burial. (Rom 6:6)
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Are you just ignoring that ?
Or don't you believe it ?

What this does is breaks the power of sin in our lives; we can choose to not sin and grow in holiness, through the power of the Holy Spirit. But nowhere is it promised in the Bible that in this life, before we enter heaven, that we are now perfect and sinless or that we can attain that. Sin will be a continual struggle until we die.

We can, but we won't ?
What a waste of the suffering and death of the Savior .
What a waste of the power of the Holy Spirit.

2Ti 2:14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.
...
2Ti 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
...
2Ti 2:22 So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (ESV)

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (ESV)

Has your post increased or decreased the ungodliness of 2 Tim 2:16 ?

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we [continually] confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. (ESV)

I find it revealing that those who choose to legitimize sin never quote 1 John 2:3-6..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. (ESV)

I wish my brother would repent of sin and get baptized for their remission so he could walk in the light, and Spirit.

Such warnings for believers are abundant throughout the NT, but would be pointless nonsense if believers are already perfectly sinless.

Does seeing a "STOP" sign mean you must drive through it without stopping ?
Why do admonissions against sin make you think you must commit sin ?

"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)

 

[Hopeful 2]

New Testament

The word "sin" is used 276 times in the NT.
"Iniquity", 15 times.
"Wickedness", 9 times.

"Righteousness" is used 91 times.

Good thing it isn't a basketball game. LOL
As God is the author of righteousness, it will pay great dividends to heed everything exhorting us to live Godly lives.

 

[Iconoclast]

We can be perfectly sinless, here on earth.

No we can not. Every bible believing Christians knows the truth about this.

 

[Iconoclast]

Here are a couple more...
"Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Cor 1:8)
And..."Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:" (1 Cor 2:6)

The word perfect in the bible when used like this means complete.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No we can not. Every bible believing Christians knows the truth about this.

Then nobody knows God.
Fortunately you are wrong.
It is written... And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

 

[Hopeful 2]

The word perfect in the bible when used like this means complete.

No. it doesn't.
Neither does the word "perfect" mean complete in 2 Tim 3:16-17..."All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Tim 3:16-17)

This makes it possible to obey Jesus' two commandments...love God with all your heart, mind, and soul...and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

 

[Consecrated Life]

1Ti 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Good , now Agree with Paul on his claim that " I am chief of sinners"
Notice he says he IS not WAS chief of sinners ?
Present tense mind you.

And then you will subtract from your well demonstrated colossal lack of spiritual discernment

Yep, he will always be the worst of sinners saved by Christ, because of his former persecution of the Lord's church.


What other sins, by Paul, are noted in scripture ?
He was probably thinking of what he would have ended up with for his sins, hell, when he wrote..."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:1)

Paul was well aware of his present corrupt human nature , just like mine and yours.
Minus the condemnation.
Read up !

Rom 7:19
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.



Paul was nowhere near as easily deceived as yourself regarding his sinful nature of the flesh which he says remained with him after the condemnation is gone, until the day he left his sinful body behind.

Rom 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


And as you can see in his confessing to present sin in Romans that he sometimes committed & had to confess of, he was very vigilant to that fact.
Only through vigilant awareness of sin as demonstrated by Paul as you read here can we apply Christ's perfect solution for our sometimes transgression against Him.
Immediate confession of our transgressions being the perfect solution for the problem. A solution given to Paul by Jesus Christ .
The less desirable alternative given by Christ for foolishly pretending we have not sinned being a trip to His Father's woodshed.
The woodshed which Paul, being loved & uncondemned by God, had been taken to by the Lord more than a time or two:
Heb 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Your weakness is not one that Satan was able to exploit in Paul.
But he has certainly identified it in you .

 

[electedbyHim]

Paul was well aware of his present corrupt human nature , just like mine and yours.
Minus the condemnation.
Read up !

Rom 7:19
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.



Paul was nowhere near as easily deceived as yourself regarding his sinful nature of the flesh which he says remained with him after the condemnation is gone, until the day he left his sinful body behind.

Rom 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


And as you can see in his confessing to present sin in Romans that he sometimes committed & had to confess of, he was very vigilant to that fact.
Only through vigilant awareness of sin as demonstrated by Paul as you read here can we apply Christ's perfect solution for our sometimes transgression against Him.
Immediate confession of our transgressions being the perfect solution for the problem. A solution given to Paul by Jesus Christ .
The less desirable alternative given by Christ for foolishly pretending we have not sinned being a trip to His Father's woodshed.
The woodshed which Paul, being loved & uncondemned by God, had been taken to by the Lord more than a time or two:
Heb 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Your weakness is not one that Satan was able to exploit in Paul.
But he has certainly identified it in you .

These scriptures have been given to Hopeful2 before.

Hopeful 2 will tell you Romans 7 was written before Paul was saved. However the unregenerate does not concur with the law of the Lord.

The unregenerate does not struggle with sin as believers do in Romans 7:14-25

Hopeful2 does not believe that in his false doctrine.

Romans 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man

 

[Grailhunter]

The word "sin" is used 276 times in the NT.
"Iniquity", 15 times.
"Wickedness", 9 times.

"Righteousness" is used 91 times.

Good thing it isn't a basketball game. LOL
As God is the author of righteousness, it will pay great dividends to heed everything exhorting us to live Godly lives.

I think you misunderstood something along the way....see post 35

 

[Iconoclast]

No. it doesn't.
Neither does the word "perfect" mean complete in 2 Tim 3:16-17..."All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Tim 3:16-17)

This makes it possible to obey Jesus' two commandments...love God with all your heart, mind, and soul...and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

in 2nd tim 2...the word means symetrical. fully limbed, complete, like a body builder

Perfect (Adjective and Verb), Perfectly - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words​

Perfect (Adjective and Verb), Perfectly

signifies having reached its end" (telos), "finished, complete, perfect." It is used
(I) of persons,
(a) primarily of physical development, then, with ethical import, "fully grown, mature," 1 Corinthians 2:6; 1 Corinthians 14:20 ("men;" marg., "of full age"); Ephesians 4:13; Philippians 3:15; Colossians 1:28; Colossians 4:12; in Hebrews 5:14, RV, "fullgrown" (marg., "perfect"), AV, "of full age" (marg., "perfect");
(b) "complete," conveying the idea of goodness without necessary reference to maturity or what is expressed under
(a), Matthew 5:48; Matthew 19:21; James 1:4 (2nd part); James 3:2. It is used thus of God in Matthew 5:48; (II) of "things, complete, perfect," Romans 12:2; 1 Corinthians 13:10 (referring to the complete revelation of God's will and ways, whether in the completed Scriptures or in the hereafter); James 1:4 (of the work of patience); James 1:25; 1 John 4:18.


[ A-3,Adjective,G739, artios ]
is translated "perfect" in 2 Timothy 3:17,
[ B-1,Verb,G5048, teleioo ]
"to bring to an end by completing or perfecting," is used
(I) of "accomplishing" ; (II) of "bringing to completeness,"
(a) of persons: of Christ's assured completion of His earthly course, in the accomplishment of the Father's will, the successive stages culminating in His death, Luke 13:32; Hebrews 2:10, to make Him "perfect," legally and officially, for all that He would be to His people on the ground of His sacrifice; cp. Hebrews 5:9; Hebrews 7:28, RV, "perfected" (AV, "consecrated"); of His saints, John 17:23, RV, "perfected" (AV, "made perfect"); Philippians 3:12; Hebrews 10:14; Hebrews 11:40 (of resurrection glory); Hebrews 12:23 (of the departed saints); 1 John 4:18; of former priests (negatively), Hebrews 9:9; similarly of Israelites under the Aaronic priesthood, Hebrews 10:1;
(b) of things, Hebrews 7:19 (of the ineffectiveness of the Law); James 2:22 (of faith made "perfect" by works); 1 John 2:5, of the love of God operating through him who keeps His word; 1 John 4:12, of the love of God in the case of those who love one another; 1 John 4:17, of the love of God as "made perfect with" (RV) those who abide in God, giving them to be possessed of the very character of God, by reason of which "as He is, even so are they in this world."

[ B-2,Verb,G2005, epiteleo ]
"to bring through to the end" (epi, intensive, in the sense of "fully," and teleo, "to complete"), is used in the Middle Voice in Galatians 3:3, "are ye (now) perfected," continuous present tense, indicating a process, lit., "are ye now perfecting yourselves;" in 2 Corinthians 7:1, "perfecting (holiness);" in Philippians 1:6, RV, "will perfect (it)," AV, "will perform."
[ B-3,Verb,G2675, katartizo ]
"to render fit, complete" (artios), "is used of mending nets, Matthew 4:21; Mark 1:19, and is translated 'restore' in Galatians 6:1.

the comparative degree of No. 1, Acts 18:26; 1 Peter 23:15,
, teleios ]
"perfectly," is so translated in 1 Peter 1:13, , of setting one's hope on coming grace. See END.

 

[Consecrated Life]

These scriptures have been given to Hopeful2 before.

Hopeful 2 will tell you Romans 7 was written before Paul was saved.

Paul has that covered to .
He said that before he was saved he was oblivious to his sin.
Never lost a wink of sleep over it.

1 Timothy 1:13​

13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.

 

[electedbyHim]

Paul has that covered to .
He said that before he was saved he was oblivious to his sin.
Never lost a wink of sleep over it.

1 Timothy 1:13​

13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.

Are you saying Paul was an unbeliever in Romans 7:14-25?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Paul was well aware of his present corrupt human nature , just like mine and yours.
Minus the condemnation.
Read up !

The new creature doesn't have the old "human nature".
It has the divine nature of its Genderer.

Rom 7:19
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Paul's narrative about his preconversion life trying, unsuccessfully, to fulfil the Law.
And ?

Paul was nowhere near as easily deceived as yourself regarding his sinful nature of the flesh which he says remained with him after the condemnation is gone, until the day he left his sinful body behind.

No, he doesn't.

Rom 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Already answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

And as you can see in his confessing to present sin in Romans that he sometimes committed & had to confess of, he was very vigilant to that fact.
Only through vigilant awareness of sin as demonstrated by Paul as you read here can we apply Christ's perfect solution for our sometimes transgression against Him.
Immediate confession of our transgressions being the perfect solution for the problem. A solution given to Paul by Jesus Christ .
The less desirable alternative given by Christ for foolishly pretending we have not sinned being a trip to His Father's woodshed.
The woodshed which Paul, being loved & uncondemned by God, had been taken to by the Lord more than a time or two:

Your perfect solution glosses over the real problem of the unrepentant.
Their continued service to sin.

Heb 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Your weakness is not one that Satan was able to exploit in Paul.
But he has certainly identified it in you .

As neither Paul nor I are/were still captive to satan, we can live with the remaining problems.
Paul said..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
I see no hints of continued hate for God, (Matt 6:24), in those words.

 

[Hopeful 2]

These scriptures have been given to Hopeful2 before.
Hopeful 2 will tell you Romans 7 was written before Paul was saved. However the unregenerate does not concur with the law of the Lord.

No, I wouldn't.
Some of Rom 7 is a narrative of Paul's past.

The unregenerate does not struggle with sin as believers do in Romans 7:14-25

Verses 14-24 are part of Paul's narrative of his past.

Hopeful2 does not believe that in his false doctrine.
Romans 7:22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man

Yes, he did concur with the Law of God in his inner man, even though he couldn't manifest it because of the law of sin he felt was in his members.
I am glad Paul wrote the cure for the "law of sin" in Rom 8:2, proving again that it was from his preconversion experience.
Rom 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

It can make you free of it too.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I think you misunderstood something along the way....see post 35

Post 35 was right on the mark, until you misinterpreted 1 John 1:8, and 10.

 

[Hopeful 2]

in 2nd tim 2...the word means symetrical. fully limbed, complete, like a body builder

Perfect (Adjective and Verb), Perfectly - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words​

Perfect (Adjective and Verb), Perfectly

signifies having reached its end" (telos), "finished, complete, perfect." It is used
(I) of persons,
(a) primarily of physical development, then, with ethical import, "fully grown, mature," 1 Corinthians 2:6; 1 Corinthians 14:20 ("men;" marg., "of full age"); Ephesians 4:13; Philippians 3:15; Colossians 1:28; Colossians 4:12; in Hebrews 5:14, RV, "fullgrown" (marg., "perfect"), AV, "of full age" (marg., "perfect");
(b) "complete," conveying the idea of goodness without necessary reference to maturity or what is expressed under
(a), Matthew 5:48; Matthew 19:21; James 1:4 (2nd part); James 3:2. It is used thus of God in Matthew 5:48; (II) of "things, complete, perfect," Romans 12:2; 1 Corinthians 13:10 (referring to the complete revelation of God's will and ways, whether in the completed Scriptures or in the hereafter); James 1:4 (of the work of patience); James 1:25; 1 John 4:18.


[ A-3,Adjective,G739, artios ]
is translated "perfect" in 2 Timothy 3:17,
[ B-1,Verb,G5048, teleioo ]
"to bring to an end by completing or perfecting," is used
(I) of "accomplishing" ; (II) of "bringing to completeness,"
(a) of persons: of Christ's assured completion of His earthly course, in the accomplishment of the Father's will, the successive stages culminating in His death, Luke 13:32; Hebrews 2:10, to make Him "perfect," legally and officially, for all that He would be to His people on the ground of His sacrifice; cp. Hebrews 5:9; Hebrews 7:28, RV, "perfected" (AV, "consecrated"); of His saints, John 17:23, RV, "perfected" (AV, "made perfect"); Philippians 3:12; Hebrews 10:14; Hebrews 11:40 (of resurrection glory); Hebrews 12:23 (of the departed saints); 1 John 4:18; of former priests (negatively), Hebrews 9:9; similarly of Israelites under the Aaronic priesthood, Hebrews 10:1;
(b) of things, Hebrews 7:19 (of the ineffectiveness of the Law); James 2:22 (of faith made "perfect" by works); 1 John 2:5, of the love of God operating through him who keeps His word; 1 John 4:12, of the love of God in the case of those who love one another; 1 John 4:17, of the love of God as "made perfect with" (RV) those who abide in God, giving them to be possessed of the very character of God, by reason of which "as He is, even so are they in this world."

[ B-2,Verb,G2005, epiteleo ]
"to bring through to the end" (epi, intensive, in the sense of "fully," and teleo, "to complete"), is used in the Middle Voice in Galatians 3:3, "are ye (now) perfected," continuous present tense, indicating a process, lit., "are ye now perfecting yourselves;" in 2 Corinthians 7:1, "perfecting (holiness);" in Philippians 1:6, RV, "will perfect (it)," AV, "will perform."
[ B-3,Verb,G2675, katartizo ]
"to render fit, complete" (artios), "is used of mending nets, Matthew 4:21; Mark 1:19, and is translated 'restore' in Galatians 6:1.

the comparative degree of No. 1, Acts 18:26; 1 Peter 23:15,
, teleios ]
"perfectly," is so translated in 1 Peter 1:13, , of setting one's hope on coming grace. See END.

My Strong's Concordance has the same definitions, but it also has this one for the word "perfect".
"PERFECT".
Does it bother you at all that the interpretation you chose accommodates sin in the supposed believer ?