Was Paul Heretical in Teaching Sinless Perfection?

[electedbyHim]

Paul is saying he is the chief of all the sinners Christ came to save.

Of all the sinners Christ came to save Paul was at the top, he was the chief.


Of course when a person becomes saved, they are no longer a sinner, but a saint; a holy one.

A sinner by definition is a person who is separated from Christ.

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;
Hebrews 7:26


A saint, a child of God is joined to Christ and are one spirit with Him.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17



When we become saved and are joined to Christ we are no longer a sinner.






JLB

However, we still sin.

 

[Grailhunter]

Did I not rebut every notion brought against the Lord's doctrine which is according to Godliness ?

"Classic humanity" walked after the flesh.
The newly reborn walk after the Spirit.
Are you different ?

Man can only bring forth the fruit of its progenitor.
The repentant are reborn from God's seed.
It cannot bear liars, thieves, murderers, or adulterers.
Are you different ?

If you want to know the real source of their doctrines and lives, ask them if the commit sin.
Are you different ?

Godless leaders leading Godless people.
Are you different ?

Are you different ?

So you agree with the above.
OK, but I warned you.

Had Jesus, Paul, John, Peter, or James ever spoken of the Klondike, it would be wise to follow along.
But they only spoke and wrote of the great victory the Lord Jesus Christ won over the devil and over sin.
It would be wise to follow along.

Not exactly.

Not that I am aware of.

If you are trying to illustrate your feeling for God and His Son, just say it.

Entertainment won't free man from destruction.
Only repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and the gift of the Holy Ghost can,
Thanks be to God !

Besides a little humor (because what you are saying is laughable) my point is that even the most odd religions out there do not proclaim themselves sinless or the possibility of human perfection or sinlessness.

Besides that what you are saying as a concept makes no sense. It is completely false.

But also what I am saying is, no matter how wrong or weird a false belief is you can usually find some scripture to support it. The twist is to take it out of context. But when you do that it shows your character, when you study the Word of God with the intent of twisting its meaning that is something that you will have to settle up with Christ on Judgment Day.

Fortunately for you very few will believe your malarkey so it won’t have much affect on the salvation of others. Which means you will only have to answer for a few lost souls. And the penilty for that....is it Hell?....Paul said those that preach a different gospel, let them be accursed!

The true message of the New Testament is not about perfect or sinless Christians. Sure we should do our best to be good and do good and when we fail if we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1st John 1:9
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth

 

[electedbyHim]

@Hopeful 2

You claim sinners are not regenerated. how do you interpret Galatians 6:1?

Paula dressed them as Christians (Brethren).

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

 

[Hopeful 2]

However, we still sin.

Then "we" didn't repent of sin.
The non-repentant won't receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
"They" are on fighting temptations on their own.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Besides a little humor (because what you are saying is laughable) my point is that even the most odd religions out there do not proclaim themselves sinless or the possibility of human perfection or sinlessness.

Your "most religious" are unrepentant.
They are not "in Christ".

Besides that what you are saying as a concept makes no sense. It is completely false.

But also what I am saying is, no matter how wrong or weird a false belief is you can usually find some scripture to support it. The twist is to take it out of context. But when you do that it shows your character, when you study the Word of God with the intent of twisting its meaning that is something that you will have to settle up with Christ on Judgment Day.

Have the folks you assume have NOT twisted scripture shown you how to quit sinning ?
You have been listening to the servants of the devil.
They are accommodators of sin.
They love sin more than they love God.

Fortunately for you very few will believe your malarkey so it won’t have much affect on the salvation of others. Which means you will only have to answer for a few lost souls. And the penilty for that....is it Hell?....Paul said those that preach a different gospel, let them be accursed!

Where did Paul preach that men could keep on slapping Jesus and still be saved ?
The author of Hebrews said..."For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Heb 6:4-6)
Do you know why it is impossible ?
Because they were never "enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,"
They kept on sinning.
They kept on walking in and after the "flesh", and not in and after the Spirit.

The true message of the New Testament is not about perfect or sinless Christians. Sure we should do our best to be good and do good and when we fail if we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1st John 1:9
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth

God heareth not sinners. (John 9:31, 1 Peter 3:12)
Your frequent repentings go unheard...until you have a real. true, "turn from" sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

@Hopeful 2
You claim sinners are not regenerated. how do you interpret Galatians 6:1?

"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
The verse itself tell us that the man/sinner wasn't "spiritual".

Paula dressed them as Christians (Brethren).

The sinner of Gal 6;1 is addressed as "man"

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

Servants of sin are not "spiritual".
They are still walking in and after the "flesh".

 

[Iconoclast]

My Strong's Concordance has the same definitions, but it also has this one for the word "perfect".
"PERFECT".
Does it bother you at all that the interpretation you chose accommodates sin in the supposed believer ?

We are meant to rightly divide the word of truth. You are missing the meaning 90 % of the time.

 

[Grailhunter]

Your "most religious" are unrepentant.
They are not "in Christ".

Have the folks you assume have NOT twisted scripture shown you how to quit sinning ?
You have been listening to the servants of the devil.
They are accommodators of sin.
They love sin more than they love God.

Where did Paul preach that men could keep on slapping Jesus and still be saved ?
The author of Hebrews said..."For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Heb 6:4-6)
Do you know why it is impossible ?
Because they were never "enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,"
They kept on sinning.
They kept on walking in and after the "flesh", and not in and after the Spirit.

God heareth not sinners. (John 9:31, 1 Peter 3:12)
Your frequent repentings go unheard...until you have a real. true, "turn from" sin.

Like I said you speak against the whole Gospel of the New Testament. Yes you can twist the meaning of the scriptures but in end you will pay for it.

I turn you over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 1st Corinthians 5:5

 

[Hopeful 2]

We are meant to rightly divide the word of truth. You are missing the meaning 90 % of the time.

You are using the word of God to accommodate sin.
It is written..."In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Like I said you speak against the whole Gospel of the New Testament. Yes you can twist the meaning of the scriptures but in end you will pay for it.

The root of the scriptures is LOVE.
How can my return to sinfulness accomplish LOVE ?

I turn you over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 1st Corinthians 5:5

My "flesh" was destroyed at my "immersion" into Christ and into His death and burial.
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

Wasn't yours?

 

[Grailhunter]

The root of the scriptures is LOVE.
How can my return to sinfulness accomplish LOVE ?

My "flesh" was destroyed at my "immersion" into Christ and into His death and burial.
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)

Wasn't yours?

You have been corrected by me and others and you are obdurate to the truth so your path is set, now it is between you and Satan. Enough warnings you are intent on twisting the scriptures so your fate is set and you will be awarded your punishment because you worked for it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You have been corrected by me and others and you are obdurate to the truth so your path is set, now it is between you and Satan. Enough warnings you are intent on twisting the scriptures so your fate is set and you will be awarded your punishment because you worked for it.

You are also obdurate.
Clinging to the supposed "right" to commit sin while claiming allegiance to Christ.
A "right" that is the antithesis of LOVE.

The Advocate is still available to you, if you ever really want to repent of sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

You are using the word of God to accommodate sin.
It is written..."In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10)

you are sinning right now

 

[JLB]

You would be right, if I walked in darkness-sin.
But I walk in thelight-God...in Whom is no darkness-sin.
So could you if you would repent of sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission fo your past sins.
God will then give you the gift of the Holy Ghost to guide and teach you.
You don't need to remain in darkness defending sin.

You say that you have no sin, and that you have no need to confess your sins.


That’s all we need to know.

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10





JLB

 

[JLB]

However, we still sin.

We do still sin, however, are we practicing sin or practicing righteousness?

Anyone can put on a bandage but does that mean they are a practicing physician?

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


Paul had to learn, like all of us, to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walking according to the flesh.

You can read his testimony about this in Romans 7 and how he instructs us to walk in Romans 8.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1



JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

you are sinning right now

Just because you are writing it doesn't make it true.
Tell us what the sin is.

It is written..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:" (Rom 3:21-22)
Got faith ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

You say that you have no sin, and that you have no need to confess your sins.

That is corresct.
I have confessed them and been washed of them by the blood of Christ.
Now I walk in God, in whom is no darkness-sin.

That’s all we need to know.

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

That verse, and verses 6 and 10 address those walking in darkness-sin.
It doesn't address those who walk in God-the light.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10

Addressed above.

Do you know God ?

Here is how to tell....
" And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

 

[Hopeful 2]

We do still sin, however, are we practicing sin or practicing righteousness?

Then according to 1 John 2:3-6, your "we" don't even know God.

Anyone can put on a bandage but does that mean they are a practicing physician?
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

There are no righteous sinners.
And the word "practice" has been added by those who accommodate sinfulness.
It is not of God.

Paul had to learn, like all of us, to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walking according to the flesh.

But it is possible...right ?
And if we are walking in the Spirit we will not fulfil the lusts of the new dead "flesh". (Gal 5:16)

You can read his testimony about this in Romans 7 and how he instructs us to walk in Romans 8.

Rom 7 is indeed a before and after narrative of Paul's life.
One with a happy ending !

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Amen to that.
Walking in the flesh denies men the right to say they have no sin.
Walking in the Spirit makes it possible.
Thanks be to God !

 

[electedbyHim]

"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
The verse itself tell us that the man/sinner wasn't "spiritual".

The sinner of Gal 6;1 is addressed as "man"

Servants of sin are not "spiritual".
They are still walking in and after the "flesh".

They were regenerated Christians.

 

[electedbyHim]

Then "we" didn't repent of sin.
The non-repentant won't receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
"They" are on fighting temptations on their own.

I am a regenerated Christian who struggles with sin and falls into sin at times.

What say you?