Was Paul Heretical in Teaching Sinless Perfection?

[Iconoclast]

Just because you are writing it doesn't make it true.
Tell us what the sin is.

It is written..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:" (Rom 3:21-22)
Got faith ?

One refuge of those who try and make the bogus claim that they do not sin, is to change, modify, and obscure the meaning of sin. You are going to try and do that, but you can spare us.You sin everyday, we all know it because the word of God let's us know.

 

[electedbyHim]

We do still sin, however, are we practicing sin or practicing righteousness?

Anyone can put on a bandage but does that mean they are a practicing physician?

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


Paul had to learn, like all of us, to walk according to the Spirit, rather than walking according to the flesh.

You can read his testimony about this in Romans 7 and how he instructs us to walk in Romans 8.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1



JLB

We will stop sinning when we are in glory with the Lord.

 

[Hopeful 2]

They were regenerated Christians.

The regenerated Christians no longer bring forth the fruit of the devil.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I am a regenerated Christian who struggles with sin and falls into sin at times.

What say you?

I hope one day you will repent of sin, be washed of them by the blood of Christ at your water baptism into Him and into His death and resurrection.
Then you will be able to walk in the Spirit and in the light.

 

[Hopeful 2]

We will stop sinning when we are in glory with the Lord.

That can occur here and now.
We in Him and Him in us.

 

[Hopeful 2]

One refuge of those who try and make the bogus claim that they do not sin, is to change, modify, and obscure the meaning of sin. You are going to try and do that, but you can spare us.You sin everyday, we all know it because the word of God let's us know.

All unrighteousness is sin. (1 John 5:17)
No modification needed.
As it is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)

 

[electedbyHim]

That can occur here and now.
We in Him and Him in us.

So am I saved or not?

 

[Hopeful 2]

So am I saved or not?

Salvation will be determined on the day of judgement.
What you are now may change in 5 or 10 years.
Or tomorrow !

 

[electedbyHim]

Salvation will be determined on the day of judgement.
What you are now may change in 5 or 10 years.
Or tomorrow !

Your funny.

I will be in the Kingdom, I have assurance of my salvation. The Holy Spirit confirms this in my life.

Romans 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

And I will never lose mt salvation.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Besides all that I was chosen before the foundations of the world.

Rom 8:28-30 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

 

[Iconoclast]

I hope one day you will repent of sin, be washed of them by the blood of Christ at your water baptism into Him and into His death and resurrection.
Then you will be able to walk in the Spirit and in the light.

water baptism does not put anyone into Christ.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Your funny.

I will be in the Kingdom, I have assurance of my salvation. The Holy Spirit confirms this in my life.
Romans 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Are they that commit sin being led by the Holy Spirit ?

And I will never lose mt salvation.
Romans 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do those in God's hands commit sin ?

Besides all that I was chosen before the foundations of the world.

Did you witness that ?

Rom 8:28-30 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God,

Do sinners love God ?
According to Jesus, servants of sin hate God.
It is written..."No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other." (Matt 6:24)
Those who commit sin are the servants of sin.
It is written..."Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)

to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son,

Are sinners conformed to the image of His Son ?

so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Are sinners the brethren of Christ ?

By clinging to sin, you forfeit all the above honors afforded the obedient.

 

[Hopeful 2]

water baptism does not put anyone into Christ.

I'll trust Paul's Rom 6:3-4 words over yours.
It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

 

[Hopeful 2]

Another post that is clueless on biblical salvation/

The actions of man show their allegiances.
Sinners show their allegiance to whom they serve.
Jesus said..."Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)

 

[Iconoclast]

I'll trust Paul's Rom 6:3-4 words over yours.
It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

no water in romans 6....It is the Spirit at work, not the water,

 

[Hidden In Him]

Posts that denigrate the character or intelligence of other members are not tolerated on this forum. Any further remarks like the above from ANYONE involved in this thread will result in a thread ban, and stronger disciplinary action if they continue.

If there are any problems with that, take it up with staff.

Two members just got banned from this thread for not heeding the above warning.

Continued violations and we will simply have to close this thread altogether, so I advise those who remain to take it seriously.
Hidden in Him

 

[electedbyHim]

Are they that commit sin being led by the Holy Spirit ?

Do those in God's hands commit sin ?

Did you witness that ?

Do sinners love God ?
According to Jesus, servants of sin hate God.
It is written..."No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other." (Matt 6:24)
Those who commit sin are the servants of sin.
It is written..."Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)

Are sinners conformed to the image of His Son ?

Are sinners the brethren of Christ ?

By clinging to sin, you forfeit all the above honors afforded the obedien

Are they that commit sin being led by the Holy Spirit ?

Do those in God's hands commit sin ?

Did you witness that ?

Do sinners love God ?
According to Jesus, servants of sin hate God.
It is written..."No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other." (Matt 6:24)
Those who commit sin are the servants of sin.
It is written..."Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)

Are sinners conformed to the image of His Son ?

Are sinners the brethren of Christ ?

By clinging to sin, you forfeit all the above honors afforded the obedient.

The verse I quotes in Romans 8 are for the regenerate. You missed the point. Romans 8 is not for the unregenerate.

 

[Hopeful 2]

no water in romans 6....It is the Spirit at work, not the water,

As your way without water hasn't worked to destroy the old man, and my baptism with water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins has, wouldn't it be prudent of you to get baptized the way it was intended ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

The verse I quotes in Romans 8 are for the regenerate. You missed the point. Romans 8 is not for the unregenerate.

Verses 38 and 39 do describe the regenerated.
They have crucified the old man with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
Their old man has been destroyed (Rom 6:6) and a new creature has been raise with Christ (Rom 6:4) to be the vessel of the Holy Ghost.
They don't sin anymore.
The verses don't described those who have not repented of sin.
They were never in the Lord's hands.

 

[electedbyHim]

Verses 38 and 39 do describe the regenerated.
They have crucified the old man with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
Their old man has been destroyed (Rom 6:6) and a new creature has been raise with Christ (Rom 6:4) to be the vessel of the Holy Ghost.
They don't sin anymore.
The verses don't described those who have not repented of sin.
They were never in the Lord's hands.

We are not making any progress here.

 

[electedbyHim]

The only person the Bible describes as sinless is Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1 Peter 2:22). Every other major character in the Bible is flawed. At times, the Bible seems to go out of its way to point out the sins of significant people in the Bible. One would think that if sinlessness is possible, the Bible would give us an example of someone who achieved it.

And then there are verses such as the following:

“Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins” (Ecclesiastes 7:20).

“…and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors” (Matthew 6:12).

“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8).

I could perhaps dismiss Ecclesiastes 7:20 since it is old covenant. Matthew 6:12, though, is Jesus instructing us how to pray. If Jesus told us to ask God for forgiveness, it would seem we will always need forgiveness. And, in 1 John 1:8, John, when he says “we” and “us,” is referring to himself and other believers. The apostle whom Jesus loved recognized that he was not sinless, and apparently did not even consider the idea that someone to whom he was writing might be sinless.

Some point to Jesus’ instructions to “go and sin no more” in John 5:14 and 8:11 as evidence for the possibility of sinlessness. But there is a difference between what is supposed to be our goal and what the reality of our existence tells us. Of course, sinlessness is supposed to be our goal. In Matthew 5:48 Jesus says, “You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Sinless perfection is the goal we should all be striving towards.

Until we are glorified in God’s presence in heaven, though, we will still inhabit a sin-infected body. The struggle against our flesh is constant, even for the most mature Christian (Romans 7:15–24). In the Christian life, we should progressively achieve greater and greater victory over sin, but our battle against sin will not end this side of eternity.

Some want to hold on to the possibility of sinlessness for a more practical reason. They claim, “If you tell people sinlessness is impossible, they won’t strive for it.” This claim fails for two primary reasons. First, the Bible does not teach that sinlessness is possible, so it doesn’t matter if people would be discouraged at the impossibility. We can’t lie to people in order to motivate them.

Second, we strive for perfection in many aspects of life all the while knowing we will never achieve it. Every athletic team tries to win every game, but only those suffering from delusion truly believe they will always and forever win every game. They try to win every game even though they know it ultimately is not possible. The same is true in the Christian life.

The people in my life whom I would describe as the most spiritually mature would never claim sinlessness. In fact, part of true spiritual maturity is being cognizant of the subtle sins in your life. True progress in the Christian life is honestly and humbly recognizing how much further you must go.

If you think you have arrived at sinlessness, think again. Unless you have arrived in heaven at the feet of Jesus, you still have work to do.

“Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when He appears we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him as He is.” (1 John 3:2)

S. Michael Houdmann