-
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
C
Catholic Crusader
Guest
- Thread starter
- #542
duval said:
Thats just a name we use for dying as a martyr. If someone is murdered for their Christian faith, we say they underwent a baptism of blood. In other words, their martyrdom is a sort of proof of faith and a rebirth: "...he who has lost his life for My sake will find it" (Matthew 10:39).
C
Catholic Crusader
Guest
- Thread starter
- #544
duval said:
All I can do is quote the Catechism here, so I don't mis-speak:
You might find the whole section on Baptism interesting: I'll bet you've never read it:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... s2c1a1.htm
francisdesales
Member
- Aug 10, 2006
- 7,793
- 4
duval said:
So how does an uninspired man like yourself determine that the uninspired authors of the Cathechism are correct?
Hmmm....
C
Catholic Crusader
Guest
- Thread starter
- #547
duval said:
This whole FORUM is uninspired but you're reading IT !! Now what?
You're POST is uninspired but we're all reading it.
Sheeese !!!
With due respect to Francisdesales, we can know the difference between the non-inspired and the inspired. Scriptures are ( in part ) for that purpose, 11 Tim.2:13-19; 3:14-17 and 11Pet.1:3.
With due respect for Catholic Crusader, of course what you and I and all others write in this forum is UNINSPIRED and I for one have much to learn. BUT scripture has been introduced into this forum and I believe IT TO BE INSPIRED!!. So lets just do as Isa.1:18 says "come now and lets reason together". Again, I have much to learn and such as "Hmmmmm" and "Sheeeeese" are not teachable tools.
With due respect for Catholic Crusader, of course what you and I and all others write in this forum is UNINSPIRED and I for one have much to learn. BUT scripture has been introduced into this forum and I believe IT TO BE INSPIRED!!. So lets just do as Isa.1:18 says "come now and lets reason together". Again, I have much to learn and such as "Hmmmmm" and "Sheeeeese" are not teachable tools.
francisdesales
Member
- Aug 10, 2006
- 7,793
- 4
duval said:
My friend,
I am not addressing how we can know what Scriptures are. I presume we equally believe that the New Testament is inspired by God.
My concern is how you, rather than the writers of the Catholic Catechism, are the duly-appointed person that judges proper interpretation of inspired literature? Where is your authority?
In other words, why is your interpretation correct and the entire Catholic Church's wrong? And where do you find this "ability" given to you in the Bible?
The Bible is the book of the Church, and she interprets it authoritatively. See Matthew 18:16-17.
egards
I
Imagican
Guest
- Thread starter
- #550
Catholic Crusader said:
wow CC,
So you believe that WE are simply here 'talking' without inspiration?
What a sad commentary you would offer in such a statement.
I, for one, would offer that MUCH of what I offer IS inspired. That the ONLY reason that I have EVER participated in THIS forum was THROUGH inpiration. I do NOT simply speak to hear myself talk.
Sheese!!!!
MEC
I
Imagican
Guest
- Thread starter
- #551
duval said:
How about the FACT that 'faith comes FIRST'? For who would even THINK of Baptism without FIRST coming into faith? And from ALL that I have read and studied, faith IS enough. For THROUGH faith we can come into the knowledge and guidance of The Spirit. With or WITHOUT 'water Baptism'.
Spiritual 'mumbo jumbo' and 'voodoo' type ritual do NOT please our TRUE God. He is MUCH more concerned with us offering love Himward and to EACH OTHER than ANY pagentry or ritual that we are able to offer. MOST of the ritual is pagan pagentry that 'churches' introduced for the sake of their PREVIOUS positions in LEADING others. You MUST do this, or you MUST do that...........this is 'man-made' ritual that is ONLY able to appease MEN in their arrogant attempts at LEADING others.
The Bible PLAINLY offers that NONE are above OTHERS. That HE who would be GREATEST would be HE who SERVES the MOST. Jesus HIMSELF bowed at the feet of His followers and WASHED THEIR FEET in order to SHOW that He WAS willing to serve those that He LOVED.
Once again, please show me where Christ stated that one MUST be 'Baptized in water' in order to receive Salvation. Or ANY of the gifts that He offers.
Blessings,
MEC
I
Imagican
Guest
- Thread starter
- #552
Considering that MOST Bible scholars will OPENLY offer that it it utter foolishness to create or form doctrine from ONE line of scripture, not only do you folks insist upon this but even to the extent that you take particular scripture that MOST Bible scholars do not even accept as being written by Mark and USE THIS to prove your point.
NO WHERE else is it mentioned, NOT EVEN in the scripture that you use, that 'water Baptism' is MANDATORY for ANYTHING. The scripture mentions BELIEF being the PARAMONT factor involved, NOT 'water Baptism'. For it states that them that believe and are Baptized will be saved, but them that believe NOT will be lost. NO mention of Baptism in the SECOND part of this statement. You have simply ASSUMED that it is there to perpetuate your BELIEFS in what you have been TAUGHT. Which, by the way, have NO bearing whatsoever on the TRUTH so far as I'm concerned.
Your church, somebody else's church. This matters LITTLE if ANY to me so far as instruction in TRUTH. For the churches are PROVEN liars and cheats since their inception. For the apostles warned us that there were ALREADY those gone out from AMONG THEM that were 'selling men out' to Satan for the simple sake of filthy lucre. It was like that then and it's even WORSE now.
So, spare me the rhetorical comments about how 'great' one church is or another. ALL fall short, there is NOT ONE righteous NO NOT ONE. And if not one righteous, then not one WORTHY. I'll take my chances in following where I am led through Spirit rather than the bogus teachings of men that may or may not have ANY relationship with God or His Son. Saying so does not MAKE IT so. Jim Jones, David Koresh, these swore that they were Christ in the flesh. Do you THINK that I 'believe that'?
I trust in the Spirit's ability to LEAD me through the Word. If some of it was altered or misdirection was created, The Spirit is able to PROVE or DISPROVE it in my mind and heart. So long as I am obedient in my offering of love to God and my neighbors I have little to fear from those that would have me condemn myself by WORSHIPING THEM. I worship NO MAN. I worship God through His Son and that is ENOUGH according to scipture. I do not NEED another to TELL me how to interpret the Word for IF the Spirit WISHES for me to understand it it WLL BE revealed.
And what GOOD could it possibly do to ACCEPT that which you don't EVEN UNDERSTAND? That is UTTER foolishness. God is not some mysterious three headed beast that simply says FOLLOW without ANY understanding. He is a LOVING Father and creator who wants for NOTHING more than a relationship with His creation. His CHILDREN. And NOT A SINGLE one of those that He loves NEEDS to follow OTHERS in order to receive the LOVE that He has to offer.
That churche have taught that WE are unworthy of God's love only shows how BOGUS their teachings to truly be. That we MUST have THEM as mediators to Know God is TOTALLY contradictory to the Word. For there is BUT ONE MEDIATOR and that IS Jesus Christ. and I CAN know Christ TOTALLY outside the limitations of 'water Baptism'. For IF I could NOT, then there would be no need for Baptism to begin with. For WHO would be Baptized into something that they didn't even KNOW? That would be UTTER foolishness.
The church has NO monopoly on the truth. I wonder if it even recognizes MOST truth. For it has veered so far from the scriptures that they don't even recognized THEM any more. They have manipulated them into their OWN meanings in utter contradiction to themselves. For the original doctrines and theology doesn't even resemble itself anymore. Read the ancient writtings and they wouldn't dare speak of the things that are spoken of today in the WAY that they are. They had moe sense than to believe that THEY were the one's that KNEW it ALL. They simply abided by what was offered up in scipture and took THAT for what it was worth. Only later did those come into the faith, (or lack thereof), and altered things to where the truth isn't even recognizable to them any more.
So beware of WHO you choose to worship and follow. Beware of what you CHOOSE to believe. There is but ONE God and One Son and these two are ONE in Spirit. And The Spirit IS able to guide us in TRUTH WITHOUT the NEED for men to lead us into temptation.
Blessings,
MEC
NO WHERE else is it mentioned, NOT EVEN in the scripture that you use, that 'water Baptism' is MANDATORY for ANYTHING. The scripture mentions BELIEF being the PARAMONT factor involved, NOT 'water Baptism'. For it states that them that believe and are Baptized will be saved, but them that believe NOT will be lost. NO mention of Baptism in the SECOND part of this statement. You have simply ASSUMED that it is there to perpetuate your BELIEFS in what you have been TAUGHT. Which, by the way, have NO bearing whatsoever on the TRUTH so far as I'm concerned.
Your church, somebody else's church. This matters LITTLE if ANY to me so far as instruction in TRUTH. For the churches are PROVEN liars and cheats since their inception. For the apostles warned us that there were ALREADY those gone out from AMONG THEM that were 'selling men out' to Satan for the simple sake of filthy lucre. It was like that then and it's even WORSE now.
So, spare me the rhetorical comments about how 'great' one church is or another. ALL fall short, there is NOT ONE righteous NO NOT ONE. And if not one righteous, then not one WORTHY. I'll take my chances in following where I am led through Spirit rather than the bogus teachings of men that may or may not have ANY relationship with God or His Son. Saying so does not MAKE IT so. Jim Jones, David Koresh, these swore that they were Christ in the flesh. Do you THINK that I 'believe that'?
I trust in the Spirit's ability to LEAD me through the Word. If some of it was altered or misdirection was created, The Spirit is able to PROVE or DISPROVE it in my mind and heart. So long as I am obedient in my offering of love to God and my neighbors I have little to fear from those that would have me condemn myself by WORSHIPING THEM. I worship NO MAN. I worship God through His Son and that is ENOUGH according to scipture. I do not NEED another to TELL me how to interpret the Word for IF the Spirit WISHES for me to understand it it WLL BE revealed.
And what GOOD could it possibly do to ACCEPT that which you don't EVEN UNDERSTAND? That is UTTER foolishness. God is not some mysterious three headed beast that simply says FOLLOW without ANY understanding. He is a LOVING Father and creator who wants for NOTHING more than a relationship with His creation. His CHILDREN. And NOT A SINGLE one of those that He loves NEEDS to follow OTHERS in order to receive the LOVE that He has to offer.
That churche have taught that WE are unworthy of God's love only shows how BOGUS their teachings to truly be. That we MUST have THEM as mediators to Know God is TOTALLY contradictory to the Word. For there is BUT ONE MEDIATOR and that IS Jesus Christ. and I CAN know Christ TOTALLY outside the limitations of 'water Baptism'. For IF I could NOT, then there would be no need for Baptism to begin with. For WHO would be Baptized into something that they didn't even KNOW? That would be UTTER foolishness.
The church has NO monopoly on the truth. I wonder if it even recognizes MOST truth. For it has veered so far from the scriptures that they don't even recognized THEM any more. They have manipulated them into their OWN meanings in utter contradiction to themselves. For the original doctrines and theology doesn't even resemble itself anymore. Read the ancient writtings and they wouldn't dare speak of the things that are spoken of today in the WAY that they are. They had moe sense than to believe that THEY were the one's that KNEW it ALL. They simply abided by what was offered up in scipture and took THAT for what it was worth. Only later did those come into the faith, (or lack thereof), and altered things to where the truth isn't even recognizable to them any more.
So beware of WHO you choose to worship and follow. Beware of what you CHOOSE to believe. There is but ONE God and One Son and these two are ONE in Spirit. And The Spirit IS able to guide us in TRUTH WITHOUT the NEED for men to lead us into temptation.
Blessings,
MEC
dadof10
Member
- Nov 5, 2006
- 2,718
- 0
Imagican said:
Well I guess this issue is settled, then. Thou hast written. Let me help you out, MEC. I'll go ahead and organize your writing into Chapter and verse, then we can start quoting it and you can prove your point.
A reading from the posting of Imagician:
Chapter 3091
1"Considering that MOST Bible scholars will OPENLY offer that it it utter foolishness to create or form doctrine from ONE line of scripture, not only do you folks insist upon this but even to the extent that you take particular scripture that MOST Bible scholars do not even accept as being written by Mark and USE THIS to prove your point.
2 NO WHERE else is it mentioned, NOT EVEN in the scripture that you use, that 'water Baptism' is MANDATORY for ANYTHING. 3 The scripture mentions BELIEF being the PARAMONT factor involved, NOT 'water Baptism'. For it states that them that believe and are Baptized will be saved, but them that believe NOT will be lost. 4 NO mention of Baptism in the SECOND part of this statement. You have simply ASSUMED that it is there to perpetuate your BELIEFS in what you have been TAUGHT. Which, by the way, have NO bearing whatsoever on the TRUTH so far as I'm concerned.
5 Your church, somebody else's church. This matters LITTLE if ANY to me so far as instruction in TRUTH. For the churches are PROVEN liars and cheats since their inception. For the apostles warned us that there were ALREADY those gone out from AMONG THEM that were 'selling men out' to Satan for the simple sake of filthy lucre. 6 It was like that then and it's even WORSE now.
7 So, spare me the rhetorical comments about how 'great' one church is or another. ALL fall short, there is NOT ONE righteous NO NOT ONE. And if not one righteous, then not one WORTHY. 8 I'll take my chances in following where I am led through Spirit rather than the bogus teachings of men that may or may not have ANY relationship with God or His Son. 9 Saying so does not MAKE IT so. Jim Jones, David Koresh, these swore that they were Christ in the flesh. Do you THINK that I 'believe that'?
10 I trust in the Spirit's ability to LEAD me through the Word. If some of it was altered or misdirection was created, The Spirit is able to PROVE or DISPROVE it in my mind and heart. So long as I am obedient in my offering of love to God and my neighbors I have little to fear from those that would have me condemn myself by WORSHIPING THEM.11 I worship NO MAN. I worship God through His Son and that is ENOUGH according to scipture. I do not NEED another to TELL me how to interpret the Word for IF the Spirit WISHES for me to understand it it WLL BE revealed.
12 And what GOOD could it possibly do to ACCEPT that which you don't EVEN UNDERSTAND? That is UTTER foolishness. God is not some mysterious three headed beast that simply says FOLLOW without ANY understanding. 13 He is a LOVING Father and creator who wants for NOTHING more than a relationship with His creation. His CHILDREN. And NOT A SINGLE one of those that He loves NEEDS to follow OTHERS in order to receive the LOVE that He has to offer.
14 That churche have taught that WE are unworthy of God's love only shows how BOGUS their teachings to truly be. That we MUST have THEM as mediators to Know God is TOTALLY contradictory to the Word. 15 For there is BUT ONE MEDIATOR and that IS Jesus Christ. and I CAN know Christ TOTALLY outside the limitations of 'water Baptism'. For IF I could NOT, then there would be no need for Baptism to begin with.16 For WHO would be Baptized into something that they didn't even KNOW? That would be UTTER foolishness.
17 The church has NO monopoly on the truth. I wonder if it even recognizes MOST truth. For it has veered so far from the scriptures that they don't even recognized THEM any more. They have manipulated them into their OWN meanings in utter contradiction to themselves. For the original doctrines and theology doesn't even resemble itself anymore.18 Read the ancient writtings and they wouldn't dare speak of the things that are spoken of today in the WAY that they are. They had moe sense than to believe that THEY were the one's that KNEW it ALL. 19 They simply abided by what was offered up in scipture and took THAT for what it was worth. Only later did those come into the faith, (or lack thereof), and altered things to where the truth isn't even recognizable to them any more.
20 So beware of WHO you choose to worship and follow. Beware of what you CHOOSE to believe. There is but ONE God and One Son and these two are ONE in Spirit. And The Spirit IS able to guide us in TRUTH WITHOUT the NEED for men to lead us into temptation."
So, you were right, according to IMGN: 3091:5 "For the churches are PROVEN liars and cheats since their inception." And verse 17 "The church has NO monopoly on the truth". Scripture says, so I will leave my Church immediately.
You were also right about salvific baptism being a ruse, for IMGN: 3091:2 plainly offers "NO WHERE else is it mentioned, NOT EVEN in the scripture that you use, that 'water Baptism' is MANDATORY for ANYTHING."
The only thing we have left to discuss is do the Postings (which is how these will come to be known) go before or after the Gospels.
OK, I'm out.
Response to Francisdesales post of 8-13-8
Are you saying the Catholic Cat. is inspired?? IF so I await proof, inspired proof. I made absolutely no affirmation of any authority appointed me to discern inspiration ( go back and read ) other than what the scriptures give all men who read it. I do not regard Catholic writers or other religious parties writings as inspired, only the Bible, the Old and New Testaments. Return to my post and the scriptures offered therein as to how any man can identify false teaching, and yet I shall give you one more passage. "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" I Jn.4:1. The only way I know to do that is to compare what we ( including mysel f ) write with what the scriptures teach. Its not about what any "church" says, it about what the "Bible" says. No, the Bible is not the book of the church rather ITim.3:15 says the church is the "pillar and ground of the truth", the church supports the truth.
Your friend, Duval
Are you saying the Catholic Cat. is inspired?? IF so I await proof, inspired proof. I made absolutely no affirmation of any authority appointed me to discern inspiration ( go back and read ) other than what the scriptures give all men who read it. I do not regard Catholic writers or other religious parties writings as inspired, only the Bible, the Old and New Testaments. Return to my post and the scriptures offered therein as to how any man can identify false teaching, and yet I shall give you one more passage. "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" I Jn.4:1. The only way I know to do that is to compare what we ( including mysel f ) write with what the scriptures teach. Its not about what any "church" says, it about what the "Bible" says. No, the Bible is not the book of the church rather ITim.3:15 says the church is the "pillar and ground of the truth", the church supports the truth.
Your friend, Duval
Reply to Imagican's post of 8-14-8 at 11:05
Correct! Faith comes before baptism. Something comes even before faith and that is "hearing". Rom.1017. I can only offer what Jesus Himself said in Mk.16:16:"---he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved---" And, yes, belief there too is before baptism. We hear a lot of talk about "love" yet this same Jesus who spoke the above also said In Jn.14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments" and I think Mk.16:15-16 was one of His commands!! The best way I can show my Saviour how MUCH I love His is to Do what He says DO in the WAY He says DO it and for the REASON he says to do It.
In kind regards, Duval
Correct! Faith comes before baptism. Something comes even before faith and that is "hearing". Rom.1017. I can only offer what Jesus Himself said in Mk.16:16:"---he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved---" And, yes, belief there too is before baptism. We hear a lot of talk about "love" yet this same Jesus who spoke the above also said In Jn.14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments" and I think Mk.16:15-16 was one of His commands!! The best way I can show my Saviour how MUCH I love His is to Do what He says DO in the WAY He says DO it and for the REASON he says to do It.
In kind regards, Duval
dadof10
Member
- Nov 5, 2006
- 2,718
- 0
duval said:
Where do you find this in Scripture?
Notice Paul doesn't say the Bible is the "pillar and ground of truth". It seems Paul is saying that it IS about what the Church says, since the Church teaches the truth.
Duval, you can hit the "Quote" button in the upper right hand corner of the post you want to respond to. You will get a new screen where you can delete the irrelevant points, like in any word processor program. You can also click the "quote" button (across the top on the second screen), then cut and paste INSIDE the two INSIDE brackets to quote either yourself or someone else.
I
Imagican
Guest
- Thread starter
- #557
duval said:
Amen, my brother.
Wish I had been able to follow your offerings more closely. Time has been the enemy as of late and I have only been able to slip in and out.
Absolutely; THE Church and what are 'called churches' today are NOT of necessity the SAME 'thing'. For many have simply chosen to follow their OWN understanding REGARDLESS of the Word.
So often our Catholic brothers FORGET that the Bible is NOT 'their creation', they were just the one's chosen at the time to 'put it together'. The Bible is the inspired 'Word of God' and ANYONE that has ever come into communion with The Spirit is able to clearly SEE that this is SO.
The CC in the beginning STARTED a 'good work'. But they, like all others of the past, allowed their OWN understanding to cloud up the TRUTH. And so we find them in their present state. Caught up between the Word and what their previous leaders have 'created'.
But what our TRUE 'father's in Christ' taught was that we are to follow NO MEN but follow instead the truth as revealed through Word and Spirit. That is WHY the Word was 'given to us' to begin with. And that is WHY the Spirit was given to us as well.
You offer sound words that many will refuse to heed for the simple sake of 'their churches'. They will not hear nor understand ANYTHING that is not given them by those that they have CHOSEN to follow with 'itching ears'. The wisdom of this world in exchange for 'the truth'.
Keep up the 'faith' my brother, and nothing is able to distract you from the path that you were MEANT to follow.
Blessings,
MEC
I
Imagican
Guest
- Thread starter
- #558
duval said:
duval,
Don't ever forget that we have MUCH that was offered in the words of Christ HIMSELF. MOST had NOTHING to do with RITUAL but the LOVE that He came to offer example OF. Very little if ANY of HIS true statements concerned 'water Baptism'. The woman at the well. The centurion. These were those that He could SEE had their HEARTS and faith in the proper perspective yet NEITHER of these were told to BE Baptized in water. And such faith He offered He had not witnessed in all of Israel.
the LAST eight verses of Mark are 'believed' to have been added by someone OTHER THAN someone who actually WITNESSED Christ's return. For Matthew AND John were BOTH present durring the LAST 'last supper' and NEITHER of these recorded what is written in the last eight verses of Mark. NOTHING about serpents or healing or casting out demons etc......or even the words offered concerning 'them that believe and are Baptized'. So the consensus being, SOMEONE, (most likely involved with the compiling of the works that became the Bible), ADDED these words offered in the last eight verses in order to complete an INCOMPLETE work so that it could be added. And it's quite obvious that WHOEVER did so, did so with PRE-CONCIEVED notions formed by BELIEF that came along WELL AFTER the original work itself. All one NEED do is read the chapter and they can CLEARLY SEE the break between verses eight and nine. For in the later the author goes BACK to explain who Mary is after already introducing her in the first verses of the chapter. Like NOTHING existed after verse eight and SOMEONE came along later and 'added what we now have in'. Read it yourself and SEE if what I am offering doesn't FIT precisely.
Mark was NOT an apostle. His information was handed down to him long after the death of Christ. The story of Paul bitten by the surpent is most likely the REASON that the 'handle serpents' was added to the end of Mark. And what was witnessed of the apostles works by MANY was most likely the inspiration for the rest of the miracles that are 'supposedly' to follow 'them that believe'. Yet NEITHER Matthew OR John wrote these words when recording the last visitation of Christ with the apostles. And THEY were THERE. Take it for what it's worth but I believe everyone knows that the books of the Bible have been altered in MANY places from their original intent. And by those that allowed their BELIEFS to make this possible, (or perhaps even doing so upon ORDERS, who knows?).
But what we DO KNOW is that Christ came to die for our sins. We know that the ONLY 'reason' that this was done was through LOVE. For it was the will of God that we be ABLE to come BACK to Him through FORGIVENESS. The example was offered in that 'while we were yet ENEMIES of God, He so loved the world that He sent His ONLY Begotten SON to die for US. And this was done WILLINGLY and LOVINGLY. No force was used or needed for God to show us His love USWARD through His Son.
Think about it. It's ALL about Love. For ANYTHING that we DO without LOVE being the guiding force behind it means NOTHING so far as pleasing to God.
Blessings,
MEC
In response to dadof10
Thank you for your kind advice about how this thing operates. I am computer dumb and not worth anything when it comes to typing either. I did try to follow your instructions and messed up. I will continue to try but may have to get someone to come and teach how to "cut & past" Till then I'll try this. Bear with me please!!
But to your question. If the church interprets the inspired scriptures, then which church? There are 300+. Most are radically different. So different they cannot assemble together for the Lord's Supper, baptize for one another, serve as ministers for each others churches, cannot fellowship together (except some in rare occasions). So different that this church has this discipline book to be goverened by, another has a "standard manuel" still another has their cate., another has this creed book etc.,etc. So radically different that their headquarters are in different places and on and on!!! So which church, again I ask shall interpret the Bible for us? The all important question is what does the Bible teach? I Tim.3:15 states that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth. The church is not the truth, it supports the truth. The church did not originate the truth, the truth thru the Holy Spirit guided certain men in revealing truth and the church came into existence in Acts 2. I have much more to say, but I shall refrain for now.
Again dad0f10 I thank you for your help and kindness and I shall try to learn better the computer skills.---Duval
Thank you for your kind advice about how this thing operates. I am computer dumb and not worth anything when it comes to typing either. I did try to follow your instructions and messed up. I will continue to try but may have to get someone to come and teach how to "cut & past" Till then I'll try this. Bear with me please!!
But to your question. If the church interprets the inspired scriptures, then which church? There are 300+. Most are radically different. So different they cannot assemble together for the Lord's Supper, baptize for one another, serve as ministers for each others churches, cannot fellowship together (except some in rare occasions). So different that this church has this discipline book to be goverened by, another has a "standard manuel" still another has their cate., another has this creed book etc.,etc. So radically different that their headquarters are in different places and on and on!!! So which church, again I ask shall interpret the Bible for us? The all important question is what does the Bible teach? I Tim.3:15 states that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth. The church is not the truth, it supports the truth. The church did not originate the truth, the truth thru the Holy Spirit guided certain men in revealing truth and the church came into existence in Acts 2. I have much more to say, but I shall refrain for now.
Again dad0f10 I thank you for your help and kindness and I shall try to learn better the computer skills.---Duval
Response to Imagican:
Yes I know some question the last verses of Mk.16. One can read however in the scripture a fullfillment of all the signs which were to follow ( vs 17 ) with the exception of drinking any deadly thing and the text says "if" they drink. Also one can find inspired men commanding baptism and that for the purpose of removing sin. I shall be happy to offer some. Shortly before His death Jesus said to His disciples who shortly would have inspiration "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" Jn.14:26.This is either true or not. I believe it true, and if true what ever an inspired man said under inspiration is true. They commanded baptism, and that for forgiveness. Again, if I love my Lord I will do what He and his apostles place upon me, and that without quibble. I shall be happy to study further the controversy over Mark 16. My best wishes for you. Duval
Yes I know some question the last verses of Mk.16. One can read however in the scripture a fullfillment of all the signs which were to follow ( vs 17 ) with the exception of drinking any deadly thing and the text says "if" they drink. Also one can find inspired men commanding baptism and that for the purpose of removing sin. I shall be happy to offer some. Shortly before His death Jesus said to His disciples who shortly would have inspiration "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" Jn.14:26.This is either true or not. I believe it true, and if true what ever an inspired man said under inspiration is true. They commanded baptism, and that for forgiveness. Again, if I love my Lord I will do what He and his apostles place upon me, and that without quibble. I shall be happy to study further the controversy over Mark 16. My best wishes for you. Duval
