What is "GODS RIGHTEOUSNESS"

[Davies]

What some will find is that God has in fact fashioned us all to disobedience and that factual working 'always' resists the Ways of God and can NOT be changed to do otherwise.

Such is the base of the stiff necked. They will march PROUD to their END and can march no other way.

s

Hi smaller,

Maybe, this is the verse you're think of:
Romans 11:32

New King James Version (NKJV)

32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.


I hope by God's grace that I can progress in sanctification, but it is true, sin will be present with us until the end of our earthly lives. You can say that God will change our ability to obey perfectly when we are transformed completely into the image of Jesus when we meet Him face to face, never to sin anymore. :xmas



- Davies

 

[Robert Hern]

To be able to understand the righteousness of God, you must first understand what God thinks of man righteousness.​

The reason God separated himself from Adam was because of sin. The wages of sin is death. Blood sacrifices from animals were offered to cover their sin. God considers man’s righteousness as filthy rags (as recorded in KJV). The King James Bible description of filthy rags is a more palatable explanation. In searching the meaning of “filthy ragsâ€, in the Greek and Hebrew translation you will find the original words were menstrual rags. This gives you an idea of what God really thinks of sin, of man’s righteousness, of man. If I was to ask your, how much can you love a filthy rag, what would your answer be? Now you know what God thinks of man in his righteousness.​

 

[smaller]

Hi smaller,

Maybe, this is the verse you're think of:
Romans 11:32

New King James Version (NKJV)

32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

I hope by God's grace that I can progress in sanctification, but it is true, sin will be present with us until the end of our earthly lives. You can say that God will change our ability to obey perfectly when we are transformed completely into the image of Jesus when we meet Him face to face, never to sin anymore. :xmas

- Davies

It's perhaps more interesting than that:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

If this is a fact, go stand under the Law and see what happens.

Paul steps us through these matters quite intimately in Romans 7, and the working is quite beyond denial, resulting in Paul's Romans 7:21 conclusion in experience. And likewise his statement of fact and Gods intentions in 2 Cor. 12:7-9.

What applied to Paul was neither effective nor applicable for the 'red' above, period. Imputed righteousness does not extend to that working or worker.

And it does quite an excellent job of showing us all what we are factually dealing with, internally.

Now, find a believer in those Words. What you will find is a mountain of outright denials and deniers. That working is basically guaranteed to come up from the dust in response to Gods Words as sure as night follows day.

s

 

[Mitspa]

If Moses himself fell in unbelief in that matter, which he did and for which God did not allow him to enter the promised land, it might pay to ask 'why' that happened, rather than to think that understanding some 'doctrine' protects us.

What some will find is that God has in fact fashioned us all to disobedience and that factual working 'always' resists the Ways of God and can NOT be changed to do otherwise.

Such is the base of the stiff necked. They will march PROUD to their END and can march no other way.

s

That "some doctrine" is called THE GOSPEL!




Rom 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.



Now you can believe what ever you like, but I think I will stay with the GOSPEL and GODS RIGHTEOUSNESS ,not mine

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by smaller,

Paul put every one of us 'under the Law' in Romans 13:8-10.

It's not hard to see the matter. The law only has to be comprehended exactly as Paul stated. A child can follow the Law perfectly. Every jot and tittle of it.

Those who want to 'externalize' the Law to letters just don't understand it whatsoever. The law is spiritual, fully applicable to every N.T. believer exactly as it's stated in Romans 13:8-10.

Paul says quite clearly if there by any commandment it is comprehended as Paul states.

There is no other legitimate view of the Law.

We have been given the measure of what the law is, requires and we ARE obligated to it, period, exactly how Paul stated.

Where believers get lost is in trying to externalize understandings.

While the "law of commandments contained in ordinances" (Eph 2:15) is a "ministration of death" (2Co 3:7) and is indeed "abolished" (Gr.- katargeo) and "done away" (Gr. - katargeo), this is only so "after that faith is come" (Gal 3:25).

"The law" was not a "schoolmaster" just to bring Paul's generation to Christ and then disappear. "The law" was OUR schoolmaster to bring US unto Christ" (Gal 3:24). This statement can be made in its past tense only "after that faith is come". "Before faith comes" (vs. 23) we are all, generation by generation, concluded under sin. The law is "abolished" and "done away" only for those "in Christ."

• Galatians 3:22 "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
• Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed."

It is demonstrated "after faith is revealed" in each generation of believers.

• Romans 3:21 "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets"

It is only by the law that all the world may become guilty before God:

• Romans 3:19 "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

• 1 Timothy 1:8-9 "But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners."

"Lawful use of the law" is for the "lawless and disobedient".

Those who live by the law are not living by faith. The law is for the lawless. It was never intended to be the mind of Christ which is revealed in Christ's teachings and in the lives of those in whom Christ dwells.

• 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
• 1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine."

Originally posted by smaller,

Those who want to 'externalize' the Law to letters just don't understand it whatsoever. The law is spiritual, fully applicable to every N.T. believer exactly as it's stated in Romans 13:8-10.

There is no such thing as spiritually keeping a carnal law. Jesus wears a NEW garment and a NEW priestly robe. NOT according to that of Levi, but according to that of Melchizedek. Under the New Covenant we have a NEW priesthood, a NEW High Priest and NEW laws. NONE of them are reworkings or modifications of the old - they are NEW. They are the true High Priest and the true spiritual laws of God, not just the shadow.

 

[smaller]

There is no such thing as spiritually keeping a carnal law. Jesus wears a NEW garment and a NEW priestly robe. NOT according to that of Levi, but according to that of Melchizedek. Under the New Covenant we have a NEW priesthood, a NEW High Priest and NEW laws. NONE of them are reworkings or modifications of the old - they are NEW. They are the true High Priest and the true spiritual laws of God, not just the shadow.

Every commandment in the text was summed up by Paul in Romans 13:8-10, and yes, those who 'do that' fulfill every jot and tittle. It is His Spirit in their heart doing so.

The Law also arouses the power of darkness in the hearts of every handler and there all stumble.

Why?

s

 

[smaller]

That "some doctrine" is called THE GOSPEL!

Now you can believe what ever you like, but I think I will stay with the GOSPEL and GODS RIGHTEOUSNESS ,not mine

No 'doctrine' protects anyone's evil nor is evil or sin justified by Grace or Law.

We've done this exercise repeatedly. I only do it to prove it can't be seen, perceived or understood:

Fact:

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Fact:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Fact:

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Fact:

Romans 9:
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Fact:

Romans 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

Fact:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Fact:

2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Fact:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Fact:

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Fact:

2 Timothy 2:
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Listen, listen closely if you can or are able, to WORD FACT numero uno above.

Then connect that fact to fact numero dos above.

Then roll that fact right on down the line and see why not only the first FACT will be perpetually denied, but every fact from there on down will not, can NOT be seen or applied 'personally.'

enjoy the effort to understand, if nothing else. if not, it only serves to prove fact 2 and the NON ability to hear FACT 1.

smaller

 

[iLOVE]

I am the Righteousness of God in Christ and I walk in His Righteousness and Love Every Day!

 

[Mitspa]

No 'doctrine' protects anyone's evil nor is evil or sin justified by Grace or Law.

We've done this exercise repeatedly. I only do it to prove it can't be seen, perceived or understood:

Fact:

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Fact:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Fact:

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Fact:

Romans 9:
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Fact:

Romans 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

Fact:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Fact:

2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Fact:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Fact:

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Fact:

2 Timothy 2:
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Listen, listen closely if you can or are able, to WORD FACT numero uno above.

Then connect that fact to fact numero dos above.

Then roll that fact right on down the line and see why not only the first FACT will be perpetually denied, but every fact from there on down will not, can NOT be seen or applied 'personally.'

enjoy the effort to understand, if nothing else. if not, it only serves to prove fact 2 and the NON ability to hear FACT 1.

smaller

What is your point smaller? you speak in circles!
Know ye not that the Holy Spirit Of God dwells in you?

Well I do! and many others do!

Rom 8:15

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1Jn 4:13

Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Now you can try to shake someone else? with your empty points and twisting of scripture, but some of know "in Who" we believe and why!

Mitspa :onfire

 

[smaller]

What is your point smaller? you speak in circles!
Know ye not that the Holy Spirit Of God dwells in you?

I speak in circles? lol

Do you hear fact 1?

Do you hear fact 2?

Meet me on the ground of facts.

We 'all' like the good ones. That's the easy part. But maybe not so easy if you can't hear fact 1.

s

 

[Mitspa]

Isa 32:1

Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
Isa 32:2

And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land.
Isa 32:3

And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.
Isa 32:4

The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.


Rom 10:3

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


Jas 4:7

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


The strength of sin is the law? How unstable and double minded are those who seek to establish their own righteousness, they are as waves tossed to and fro, foaming up their own shame. Blown about by every wind of doctrine.

No man can overcome the "flesh" until he has submitted himself to God and "Gods righteousness", which is by faith alone!

Num 20:10

And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
Num 20:11

And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
Num 20:12

And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

We see that the great sin of Moses was to strike The Rock twice?
The Rock is a picture of Christ Jesus, Who died one time for sins forever!

Many today seek to earn salvation, by their own works. They like moses dishonor Christ and His Work!
They like Moses condemn Gods own people, and in anger they lash out and call unclean what Christ has sanctified by His Own Blood!
Heb 4:3


For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.


The wrath of man cannot work the Righteousness of God!

 

[smaller]

The wrath of man cannot work the Righteousness of God!

God Himself works wrath, and rightfully so.

Col. 3:
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

We should 'expect' the wrath of God upon every sower of sin and evil. I don't have a problem with that.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

How many died in the desert over the age of 20?

All but TWO!

Gotta love them odds huh?

s

 

[Mitspa]

God Himself works wrath, and rightfully so.

Col. 3:
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

We should 'expect' the wrath of God upon every sower of sin and evil. I don't have a problem with that.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

How many died in the desert over the age of 20?

All but TWO!

Gotta love them odds huh?

s

read it again smaller? the wrath of "MAN" cannot work Gods righteousness.

Jas 1:19

Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
Jas 1:20

For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

 

[Mitspa]

2Pe 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:


There was no confusion about what "righteousness" means, by those who wrote the epistles. All knew, in the the "True Church" that they was only ONE righteousness that was to every be accepted!

Just as satan deceived eve from this "simple truth", religion brought in all types of heresy. To deny the Righteousness of God by faith, is to deny the Lord Himself!


2Pe 2:1

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.



Peter himself spoke only of "Gods Righteousness" as the acceptable way and that by faith alone!
Who is called evil, but those of us who teach the "true way"?

I am not ashamed of the gospel, for in it Gods Righteousness is reveal from faith to faith! -Mitspa

 

[smaller]

read it again smaller? the wrath of "MAN" cannot work Gods righteousness.

It might be apparent that the Spirit of Truth will insert understandings of all of these matters to the heart:

John 16:8
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Wrath is from God
Righteousness is from God
Judgment is from God

To say we as believers avoid any of the above matters can be claimed. May not be all that accurate. And even in each of the courses of understandings above there are multiple workings. There is a judgment of life and a judgment of death for example.

As to righteousness in the here and now being the same as the final product? Nah. Not even close.

s

 

[Robert Hern]

GODS RIGHTEOUSNESS

how can a human understand the righteousness of God
if He has nothing to compare it with
we understand man’s so-called righteousness, thats a starting point
what does God say about man

 

[Mitspa]

GODS RIGHTEOUSNESS

how can a human understand the righteousness of God
if He has nothing to compare it with
we understand man’s so-called righteousness, thats a starting point
what does God say about man

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

 

[Robert Hern]

I agree
but still this doesn't answer the question of understanding God’s righteousness

 

[Mitspa]

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

I believe it does!

 

[Robert Hern]

God considers man’s righteousness as filthy rags
In searching the meaning of “filthy rags”, in the Greek and Hebrew translation you will find the original words were menstrual rags.
This gives you an idea of what God really thinks of sin, of man’s righteousness, of man.
If I was to ask you how much can you love a filthy rag, what would your answer be?
Now you know what God really thinks of man in his righteousness.
We cannot fathom what His righteousness must be
We don't understand what we are asking.