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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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M
Mitspa
Guest
No waffles on my side! your the one who believes some scripture and not others!
Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
It dont change smaller!
One who walks in the Spirit will serve God more by accident than any who trys to keep the law, and serve God in their own ability!
What a funny thing that man might think himself able to meet God standards!
smaller
Member
Believers are still sinners but believers are not sinners?
This works for you?
Paul was pretty upfront about being a sinner after salvation:
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
So was John:
1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Do you think being truthful somehow puts our salvation in jeopardy? Or does lying?
s
M
Mitspa
Guest
Look we have been around this one many times! You know my veiw according to scripture. So When you get some new questions I will be glad to answer those!
Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
It dont change smaller!
One who walks in the Spirit will serve God more by accident than any who trys to keep the law, and serve God in their own ability!
What a funny thing that man might think himself able to meet God standards!
smaller
Member
One might think believers could at a minimum speak in accord with what the Apostles measured to themselves as a fact.
If Paul said he was a sinner, what are you or I by comparison?
I like only and all the good words of Paul too, but that is NOT ALL Paul showed us as a fact is it???
Sooner or later any serious student will find both sides of these matters are fully true and fully applicable, and they will also find why and how that is.
Paul did NOT say 'my evil flesh is a sinner, but I am not' but that is pretty much where you somehow oddly landed.
I hope you sense a disturbance in the force Luke...:eeeekkk
s
M
Mitspa
Guest
Here is the Word of God, I did not write it but I know it is true!
Rom 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
smaller your problem is not with me, but the Word of God!
Davies
Member
Darthvader: 'I am your father, Luke.'
Luke: 'NNNOOOOOOOOO!'
Sorry, It's late, and I've watched Star Wars too many times.
- Davies
M
Mitspa
Guest
Rom 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Only by receiving the gift of righteousness can one have power to reign in life.
God gets to make the rules, He made man for His own purpose. Now He says we must accept righteousness as a gift! Who is it then that rejects this?
I tell you that only a man in pride, will reject this gift, because in their PRIDE they think themselves able to earn it by their own works!
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Only by receiving the gift of righteousness can one have power to reign in life.
God gets to make the rules, He made man for His own purpose. Now He says we must accept righteousness as a gift! Who is it then that rejects this?
I tell you that only a man in pride, will reject this gift, because in their PRIDE they think themselves able to earn it by their own works!
smaller
Member
Yes, much Gospel hidden there.
smaller
Member
Here is the Word of God, I did not write it but I know it is true!
smaller your problem is not with me, but the Word of God!
There are interesting variations on 'what believers think they see' in the scriptures, or what they believe.
Some will look at all those 'nice and fine' things and say, yeah, I am perfect in the here and now.
And some will say how can I reflect better and why is it that I don't reflect better.
I came to understand that the Law does indeed do a find job on the show and tell of 'why' our reflections vary and are presently imperfect.
And that same Law that shows us 'this present reality' is also the same Word through His Spirit that lifts us to reflect Love contained in the same Law.
So, as it pertains to 'mutual reflections' you also seem to know that the Law does prove you to be a sinner and therefore avoid it. Yet you agree that by understanding the dictates of Paul in Romans 13:8-10 we are in fact adhering to that same Law, spiritually.
It's really not that difficult to be truthful to both sides of the ledgers of Law, to put down our proven carnal views, understanding our own sin, and to overcome same in and by His Spirit in us.
The need to deny His Words is not now or is it ever a legitimate voice.
I understand though why a lot of believers end up landing there. It is 'natural.' In fact it is impossible:
Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
s
M
Mitspa
Guest
I was thinking maybe you got your bible training watching TV? :toofunny
Sorry smaller, I could not resist!
Rom 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Only by receiving the gift of righteousness can one have power to reign in life.
God gets to make the rules, He made man for His own purpose. Now He says we must accept righteousness as a gift! Who is it then that rejects this?
I tell you that only a man in pride, will reject this gift, because in their PRIDE they think themselves able to earn it by their own works!
smaller
Member
There is zero wrong with Gods Word of Law proving all including ourselves are factually sinners.
That is a truthful application of Law and those who 'accept' and 'know' that to be a fact are truthful and truth is in them.
God assuredly does not bless sin or evil under Law or Grace in anyone.
Some are just not interested in lying to themselves or God 'in faith' and using scriptures to excuse the obvious conclusion.
s
M
Mitspa
Guest
Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. :biglol
Php 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
smaller
Member
Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect:
All depends on what The Spirit shows our own eyes. Some are meant not to see.
s
M
Mitspa
Guest
My friend smaller
Good to hear from you!
No one is claiming perfection!
So lets look at the rest of the point Paul was making here?
Php 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16
Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Php 3:19
Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Php 3:20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Some look at the things of this world, (things that are seen)
Some of us look at (unseen things) of heaven!:yes
Php 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
:amen -Mitspa
M
Mitspa
Guest
Isa 51:4
Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.
Isa 51:5
My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.
Isa 51:6
Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
Isa 51:7
Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
Rom 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Do not be deceived! Only His Righteousness, by faith, will be accepted at the "Great Judgment"!
"For the Just shall live by faith":amen
Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.
Isa 51:5
My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.
Isa 51:6
Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
Isa 51:7
Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
Rom 10:8
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Do not be deceived! Only His Righteousness, by faith, will be accepted at the "Great Judgment"!
"For the Just shall live by faith":amen
M
Mitspa
Guest
Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
It seems unfair, that by Adams sin, I became a "sinner"?
God in His wisdom has declared that By Christ and His obedience I have been made righteous!
Man fell by believing a "lie"
Man is restored to his rightful place by believeing the "Truth"
Joh 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Isa 32:1
Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
Isa 32:2
And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land.
Isa 32:3
And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.
Isa 32:4
The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.
Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Jas 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
The strength of sin is the law? How unstable and double minded are those who seek to establish their own righteousness, they are as waves tossed to and fro, foaming up their own shame. Blown about by every wind of doctrine.
No man can overcome the "flesh" until he has submitted himself to God and "Gods righteousness", which is by faith alone!
M
Mitspa
Guest
Num 20:10
And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
Num 20:11
And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
Num 20:12
And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.
We see that the great sin of Moses was to strike The Rock twice?
The Rock is a picture of Christ Jesus, Who died one time for sins forever!
Many today seek to earn salvation, by their own works. They like moses dishonor Christ and His Work!
They like Moses condemn Gods own people, and in anger they lash out and call unclean what Christ has sanctified by His Own Blood!
Heb 4:3
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
The wrath of man cannot work the Righteousness of God!
smaller
Member
If Moses himself fell in unbelief in that matter, which he did and for which God did not allow him to enter the promised land, it might pay to ask 'why' that happened, rather than to think that understanding some 'doctrine' protects us.
What some will find is that God has in fact fashioned us all to disobedience and that factual working 'always' resists the Ways of God and can NOT be changed to do otherwise.
Such is the base of the stiff necked. They will march PROUD to their END and can march no other way.
s