What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[gordon777]

They received the Spirit through faith, purifying hearts, nothing to do with water, it is all through faith.

Nobody is saved to receive the Holy Ghost without faith, faith in Jesus Christ is what saves, water baptism does not, neither does water baptism give faith nor give the Holy Spirit( it is gotten only through faith in Christ risen.)

Our conscience is cleaned from an evil conscience( an heart of unbelief) and pure water is what comes out of the belly of the Lord Jesus Christ( belief in it to wash our bodies TESTIFIED TO BE BY BELIEVING IN HIM.)



John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[gordon777]

I CANT STAY OFF FORUMS WHILE I SHOW WHAT YOU ARE.

 

[Runmyramble]

I mean that it implies that there is a baptism that saves us now. The assumption is that baptism saves us, which I don't believe is true. God saves us through faith.

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

I mean that it implies that there is a baptism that saves us now. The assumption is that baptism saves us, which I don't believe is true. God saves us through faith.

You'll have to contend with scripture and God....on your statement

 

[Runmyramble]

There aren’t 2 ways to become a christian. Either baptism is necessary which means you are not saved or its not. So, yes this is about winning and losing. You lose your soul or you win eternal life.
It was Jesus that said….he that believes and is baptized shall be saved. I did not say that so you can argue with God all you want but I can promise you will lose that debate at judgement.
It was Jesus that tells us that it is baptism that remits sins in acts 2:38.
It was Jesus that tells us that our sins are “washed away” in baptism.
It was Jesus that tells us…baptism doth also now save us.
I did not say any of that; God did. You can argue against God all you want.

For some reason you think the word “woks” means the same thing in every context. If that’s your understanding you have been taught horribly wrong.
It has to eat at you people that you cannot provide ONE passage that says….Just accept jesus and your sins will be washed away. Even Rom 10 ties salvation to baptism. You have Rom 10:9,10 and then you can add vs 13 which includes calling on the name of the Lord and then God specifically ties that to baptism washing away sins in acts 22:16. The Bible is such a clear and wonderful book I can’t believe you people love to argue against it all the time. Why? PRIDE! Jesus tells us what will judge us. His word! Jn 12:48. I would hate to think I had to tell Jesus that he was wrong when he said those phrases above. Jesus…dont you know that ”works” cant remove sins.

Hi,
I believe Matthew 28...Helps explain the view in Mark 16 seeing that they are the same event.

Let's look @ Matthew 28
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Baptize does not =water
Verse 20 emphasizes how they are to baptize-submerge or immersing them in the teachings...

For what happens when one keeps God's commands? John 14:23

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


So if you go back to Mark 16 the word believeth(aorist) is continually...it's like belief unto Salvation...recall they are making disciples, "apprentices". dw

 

[Runmyramble]

Hi,
I believe Matthew 28...Helps explain the view in Mark 16 seeing that they are the same event.

Let's look @ Matthew 28
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Baptize does not =water
Verse 20 emphasizes how they are to baptize-submerge or immersing them in the teachings...

For what happens when one keeps God's commands? John 14:23

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


So if you go back to Mark 16 the word believeth(aorist) is continually...it's like belief unto Salvation...recall they are making disciples, "apprentices". dw

What happens when we actually do His teachings....

Jesus said...after speaking of Eating His body and drinking His blood.....That the words He Spoke were Spirit and Life....

What was He saying....? In my view or opinion it's like this: the word is living..so live the word ...

So basically if you live the word (spirit becomes life)

That's my thoughts

 

[jaybo]

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

You'll have to contend with scripture and God....on your statement

You'll have to contend with God for taking a part of a single verse from an obsolete translation to try to prove a false doctrine.

 

[Runmyramble]

You'll have to contend with God for taking a part of a single verse from an obsolete translation to try to prove a false doctrine.

Okayeee

You'll have to contend with God for taking a part of a single verse from an obsolete translation to try to prove a false doctrine.

I did not mean...to say that rudely...if I did I apologize.....

But even if you put it in the whole of Chapter 3 it still says the same thing...

And all of these new version are not wrong...
So you, for you are the one that does not believe that scripture says what it says...have to strive with it....not I (that's just the truth)

Are all these wrong too:
NETBible: 1 Peter 3:21

NETBible: 1 Peter 3:21

 

[Runmyramble]

You'll have to contend with God for taking a part of a single verse from an obsolete translation to try to prove a false doctrine.

And here it is in the full version....And it does not change what it says:

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?

14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

 

[Runmyramble]

Wait a minute! Where does it say they were “saved“ at the point he believed? Why would you add that and make that up. That is deceitful. Did you read the rest of the passage? He is a gentile jailor, he doesn’t even know who the “lord Jesus Christ“ is. The text says they preached to him the word of the Lord, he then obviously believed, repented by washing their stripes and then they IMMEDIATELY in the middle of the night were baptized in water. The text only calls them a believer “saved” AFTER they were baptized. 16:34
Stop misleading people. If you are going to teach then use ALL the text not just the one verse you like.
Why would I concede to false nonsense. Give me truth and I‘ll listen.

Seems like everyone is getting brutal in here......

 

[Cnkw3]

Hi,
I believe Matthew 28...Helps explain the view in Mark 16 seeing that they are the same event.

Let's look @ Matthew 28
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Baptize does not =water
Verse 20 emphasizes how they are to baptize-submerge or immersing them in the teachings...

For what happens when one keeps God's commands? John 14:23

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


So if you go back to Mark 16 the word believeth(aorist) is continually...it's like belief unto Salvation...recall they are making disciples, "apprentices". dw

Yes. Baptism in Mk 16 and Matt 28 are water. He commanded man to administer It. Thats all it could be. You dont ”immerse” people in the word. Where is that taught? Plus once the gospel began to be preached we see them teaching and then immersing in water just as they were commanded.
Acts 2:38 is water. We know that because the exact same preacher commanded the same thing in acts 10 and he specifically mentions water.
We see Philip doing the same thing in acts 8. He preached Jesus then he immersed in water. Was he being disobedient to the Lord? Because IF he had been commanded to immerse in the word and not water and then he goes out and immerses in water he is adding to the word of the Lord which is strictly forbidden. I don’t know why people hate water so much?

 

[Cnkw3]

Seems like everyone is getting brutal in here......

If I asked you a basic question like….
When does the Bible say salvation occurs? Before or after baptism? All you now have to do is read word for word what the Bible plainly says in MK 16:16. Acts 2:38, acts 22:16. Thats not hard is it? But what people do is they dont give me a Bible answer they give me a bunch of made up junk that cant be found in the NT and when I ask for them to show me this stuff they double down on the made up junk so yea…that gets a little frustrating. This is supposed to be a Bible discussion. So lets use the Bible and not our opinions to answer Bible questions. jesus said….you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. Not your opinion.

 

[Runmyramble]

If I asked you a basic question like….
When does the Bible say salvation occurs? Before or after baptism? All you now have to do is read word for word what the Bible plainly says in MK 16:16. Acts 2:38, acts 22:16. Thats not hard is it? But what people do is they dont give me a Bible answer they give me a bunch of made up junk that cant be found in the NT and when I ask for them to show me this stuff they double down on the made up junk so yea…that gets a little frustrating. This is supposed to be a Bible discussion. So lets use the Bible and not our opinions to answer Bible questions. jesus said….you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. Not your opinion.

That's where I stand...And that's my opinion....God Bless

 

[Runmyramble]

If I asked you a basic question like….
When does the Bible say salvation occurs? Before or after baptism? All you now have to do is read word for word what the Bible plainly says in MK 16:16. Acts 2:38, acts 22:16. Thats not hard is it? But what people do is they dont give me a Bible answer they give me a bunch of made up junk that cant be found in the NT and when I ask for them to show me this stuff they double down on the made up junk so yea…that gets a little frustrating. This is supposed to be a Bible discussion. So lets use the Bible and not our opinions to answer Bible questions. jesus said….you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. Not your opinion.

I like immerse in the presence of God..through teaching them to do better...tks

 

[Runmyramble]

Yes. Baptism in Mk 16 and Matt 28 are water. He commanded man to administer It. Thats all it could be. You dont ”immerse” people in the word. Where is that taught? Plus once the gospel began to be preached we see them teaching and then immersing in water just as they were commanded.
Acts 2:38 is water. We know that because the exact same preacher commanded the same thing in acts 10 and he specifically mentions water.
We see Philip doing the same thing in acts 8. He preached Jesus then he immersed in water. Was he being disobedient to the Lord? Because IF he had been commanded to immerse in the word and not water and then he goes out and immerses in water he is adding to the word of the Lord which is strictly forbidden. I don’t know why people hate water so much?

Opinion-view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Therefore it doesn't mean its without facts and knowledge.

As one can see..from the scripture I used..

 

[Runmyramble]

Yes. Baptism in Mk 16 and Matt 28 are water. He commanded man to administer It. Thats all it could be. You dont ”immerse” people in the word. Where is that taught? Plus once the gospel began to be preached we see them teaching and then immersing in water just as they were commanded.
Acts 2:38 is water. We know that because the exact same preacher commanded the same thing in acts 10 and he specifically mentions water.
We see Philip doing the same thing in acts 8. He preached Jesus then he immersed in water. Was he being disobedient to the Lord? Because IF he had been commanded to immerse in the word and not water and then he goes out and immerses in water he is adding to the word of the Lord which is strictly forbidden. I don’t know why people hate water so much?

In my opinion...based on scripture you do immerse people in the word.....by teaching them to do it...

Close references: John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Meaning of Sanctify-
A) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
B) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
@consecrate things to God
@dedicate people to God
@to purify
@ to cleanse externally
@ to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
@to purify internally by renewing of the soul

 

[Runmyramble]

Yes. Baptism in Mk 16 and Matt 28 are water. He commanded man to administer It. Thats all it could be. You dont ”immerse” people in the word. Where is that taught? Plus once the gospel began to be preached we see them teaching and then immersing in water just as they were commanded.
Acts 2:38 is water. We know that because the exact same preacher commanded the same thing in acts 10 and he specifically mentions water.
We see Philip doing the same thing in acts 8. He preached Jesus then he immersed in water. Was he being disobedient to the Lord? Because IF he had been commanded to immerse in the word and not water and then he goes out and immerses in water he is adding to the word of the Lord which is strictly forbidden. I don’t know why people hate water so much?

I have been water Baptized..
I don't hate it...
It just doesn't mean water there...in 1 Peter 3:21 ..

Did circumcision on the outside save any one if they did not keep the Law?


The Baptism that saves...in my opinion based on the knowledge and facts I have about scriptures...is not a one time act of Baptism....yet the agency and action done by Jesus and God are. (The Spirit)

Ritual cleansing were not done once by the people....under the Law..

And seeing that the law was a school master..and had foreshadows..

Then yes one could have been Hence saved....but how do they continually stay in a saved state...

Well this is not my opinion, scripture states:

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Henceforth, the act of Baptism seems to me, to be an ungoing action....taken place in the "Christ," Risen Lord..who became a quickening Spirit.....Does He only quicken once?

I like to say opinion...because I am learning myself....through studying...So while somethings I may see clearer..other things are not always in my face ad come together...that is why I say in my opinionation, or opinion..

Also, It's not that the truths have not set me free...many have, but many truths still need to come together for a complete picture of what I may be trying to understand at that time.....so that's why I say in my opinion....I'm not trying to win..but to learn..and if others haven't came to what I've received I'm ok..because that's between them and God....

 

[Cnkw3]

In my opinion...based on scripture you do immerse people in the word.....by teaching them to do it...

Close references: John 17:17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Meaning of Sanctify-
A) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
B) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
@consecrate things to God
@dedicate people to God
@to purify
@ to cleanse externally
@ to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
@to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Can you be sanctified and still be in your sins? No. So at what point does the Bible say your sins are removed which is also when you would be sanctified. If you like the Bible you should easily be able to produce one of the many passages that say EXACTLY, without ambiguity, needing no interpretation, what this very point in time is.

 

[Runmyramble]

Now if someone ask me about the meaning of Baptism....I could not say Baptism always means immersing someone in water...

But to immerse someone in the word, the teachings of God....what would that look like...If you taught someone to turn the other cheek, get rid of anger, or go the extra mile..etc...Starts with hiding words in the heart so as to do them...naturally if someone Hit you...you may want to Hit them back...but If you hid the word of God in your heart and He Lords over you, your second thought...may be to turn the other cheek.

Therefore one is being transformed by the renewing of the mind..... because they renewed their mind with the teachings of Jesus...And when the mind is renewed then the deed on the outside will be in alignment....
Surely this seems to me how to be sanctified with the truth....set apart in holiness and purity so as to be used by God to bring others under His rule, into His Kingdom....

Good example of one aspect of immersing then in the teachings under God.

As a matter of fact what was the Baptism in the red sea about? How is it they were all Baptized into Moses under the cloud and in the red Sea...and drank from the same rock???

Whose voice did the heed to?...Anyway enough for today...this all has been very exciting...

 

[Runmyramble]

Can you be sanctified and still be in your sins? No. So at what point does the Bible say your sins are removed which is also when you would be sanctified. If you like the Bible you should easily be able to produce one of the many passages that say EXACTLY, without ambiguity, needing no interpretation, what this very point in time is.

You lost me...Not sure of the point you are trying to make....maybe you can elaborate..you do not have to be sarcastic or mean when discussing with me...I know you believe what you believe...but with that in mind...you can have all the knowledge in the world and without love it does not avail for anything...just discuss without the extra comments...makes it more pleasant....at least in my opinionation...and not that my opinion is not without facts...because Corinthians 13 says it....❤

 

[Walpole]

I have been water Baptized..
I don't hate it...
It just doesn't mean water there...in 1 Peter 3:21 ..

Is this a joke? The word WATER is explicitly stated. Lest there be any doubt, here again are the Apostle's words...

"...because they formerly did not obey, rwhen God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but vas an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." (1 Peter 3:20-21)

The Apostle links the deluge to baptism. The water saved Noah and his family and the waters of baptism now saves you. We know he means actual water because he says baptism is not for the removal of dirt from one's body, but is instead salvific. If the baptism he was speaking about was symbolic, that is one sans water, it would not even be capable of removing dirt from the body. So clearly baptism requires water.

In Christianity, matter...matters.

Water in salvation history brings both death and life. It represents the destruction of the old (former ways) and recreates something new. The waters of the deluge washed the sinners away, and through it something new was created. Thus Noah and his family were saved from sin through the waters of the deluge. St. Peter draws the parallel between the saving waters of the deluge for Noah and that of the saving waters of baptism for you and I. However, he goes through the trouble of the exclusion, "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God" to demonstrate the effects of the waters of baptism act not on the exterior (washing the flesh), but rather interiorly, on the conscience and soul of man.

If you want to cleanse your flesh, you simply take a bath. If you want to cleanse your soul, you get baptized. Baptism, by definition, necessitates water.