What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[Runmyramble]

Ok. If you believe that then prove it! Lets start with Mk 16:16. at what point does this passage say we are saved? Before or After baptism? Lets start here and we can go through the others one at a time. You will have ample opportunity to prove that I am teaching false doctrine.

This is exactly what I do. And when you give me nonsense like…..1 pet 3:20,21 has nothing to do with water I may laugh or get sarcastic because youve gone too far off the reservation.. Did Elijah mock those in 1 kgs 18 who were teaching false doctrine? Yes. pretty harsh too. Where was all the love flowing out of a man of God? sometimes sarcasm and harsh truth is warranted.

I agree.

Just start with my passage above and we can go from passage to passage and it we are honest we will come to the truth.

Im around them all day every day.

So i hope this means you are not going to ignore my passage above? You cant call me a false teacher and then run! I may just have to get sarcastic and follow in Elijahs footsteps.

You are not Elijah..no you are not a prophet...and what Elijah did was not even in this context..

...in here I may think you have false teaching....but why Is it I don't tell you that and laugh? Because It's wrong. You go back an attack the person and get off the subject for one...2 everything in my head don't need to come out my mouth..What did you gain in the end? Who did you help? Who did you lift up by it? No one....Because what you are bringing to the table has not changed minds, nor hearts.

And it's not that I'm not trying to see things from all sides....

But I have been truly forgiven of my sins..and it's a reality...not something just talked up.....So to tell me..what I need to do (water Baptism for Salvation)...knowing what God has already done for me-your giving of scriptures without context or direction does not help to add meaning to difficult concepts.

Calling someone a false teacher does not make them one...
It just shows who you are.
Learn to debate with scripture.
You are not God, you do not know what is in my heart..and you can't make me stand...Let God be true....

I have nothing else to say in this...But woe unto the man that knows to do right and does not do it.

 

[Runmyramble]

For me this is a place to learn..
And the negative comments are the reason many are afraid to asked questions, present their understanding and participate, because before they can someone strikes at them for their knowledge. Now why would they continue to even listen? Paul said He became all things to all people so as to win them for Christ.

 

[Cnkw3]

Let's see what scripture states:
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Was he baptized? Yes or no.
It was Jesus that commanded that Saul be baptized. Did Jesus command water baptism in Mk and Matt. Of course. We know it’s water because he commanded men to do it. Then what did men go out and do? They immersed people in water. Your little article below admits this very fact. Why would Jesus command water baptism in his great commission then command Saul to do something totally different? He wouldn’t. We know Sauls baptism was in water because a man commanded him to “be baptized”. No man was ever commanded......”be spirit baptized”. Spirit baptism was promised but never commanded.
In this passage above.....at what point were Sauls sins washed away?

 

[Cnkw3]

I already shared but here is something you can read...at least I received what I agreed with....
was paul baptized by immersion

was paul baptized by immersion

I quit reading at this point...
“The apostle Paul also compared baptism to burial (Romans 6:3-4). but again any reference to water immersion for the remission of sins was omitted.”
NO IT WASNT!!!
Can a person be “raised to walk in newness of life” and still be in their sins? NO! This is the crazy stuff you have been listening to. At what point does Paul say, in Rom 6, that a person has a “new life”. AFTER raising out of the water. A person is buried in water and then raised out of the water. This is IMMERSION.
The beautiful thing about Rom 6 is Paul new people would not believe his preaching about water baptism so he drew them a picture here in Rom 6. And guess what? People don’t even believe it when he drew them a picture.
BUT
Paul was not through describing water baptism in Rom 6. When a careful Bible student reads the whole context they would find this....
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:17-18
What form of doctrine had they obeyed? The form he has been describing! Water Baptism. What happened AFTER they obeyed this doctrine? They were, at that point, made FREE FROM SIN. Your article is full of nonsense.
This is what water baptism does.....it removes sin. Acts 2:38. (And everybody knows acts 2 is immersion in water. It’s proven through acts 10).

 

[Runmyramble]

Was he baptized? Yes or no.

It's not was He baptized, He was....... but it does not mention water as the agency

It was Jesus that commanded that Saul be baptized. Did Jesus command water baptism in Mk and Matt. Of course.

He commanded who to Baptize?

And I already went over this...baptism means immerse..

What is one immersed in?.....is God's presence by being immersed in His teachings/words..[Christ is faithful to us and we should be Loyal too](teaching them to do is what it says)

We know it’s water because he commanded men to do it. Then what did men go out and do? They immersed people in water. Your little article below admits this very fact.

Yes, but He says it like all the rest, it's and outward expression of an inward conviction....Peter even says who can forbid water to those who have received the Spirit just as we.....Who did He asked that to? The people....For He does not have to ask God...because God did the work....

Why would Jesus command water baptism in his great commission then command Saul to do something totally different?

Again you are only seeing water Baptism
because you are interpreting, just maybe from what your church teaches, and not just accepting what the word says.

He wouldn’t. We know Sauls baptism was in water because a man commanded him to “be baptized”.

I do not see that as logical because God speaks through men, Even Peter, God was teaching as God showed up in outward signs. The whole Bible is said to be inspired by God...But men wrote it. We are to be made whole and equipped for every good work by it.
God spoke through the prophets.
It is the preached "word" and the word that quickens.

No man was ever commanded......”be spirit baptized”. Spirit baptism was promised but never commanded.

I think the point is...if you teach them to do all that He commanded THEN YOU GET THIS PASSAGE-
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

So maybe you can see why one of the disciples asked those who heard ONLY ABOUT JOHN'S BAPTISM have you received the Spirit sense you believed....because it's a reality...It will change you.

In this passage above.....at what point were Sauls sins washed away?

What does the scripture say..."calling on the name of the Lord"

In Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
.......
What are you waiting for? Get up and be baptized. Have your sins washed away by calling on the name of the Lord.’

 

[Runmyramble]

I quit reading at this point...
“The apostle Paul also compared baptism to burial (Romans 6:3-4). but again any reference to water immersion for the remission of sins was omitted.”
NO IT WASNT!!!
Can a person be “raised to walk in newness of life” and still be in their sins? NO! This is the crazy stuff you have been listening to. At what point does Paul say, in Rom 6, that a person has a “new life”. AFTER raising out of the water. A person is buried in water and then raised out of the water. This is IMMERSION.
The beautiful thing about Rom 6 is Paul new people would not believe his preaching about water baptism so he drew them a picture here in Rom 6. And guess what? People don’t even believe it when he drew them a picture.
BUT
Paul was not through describing water baptism in Rom 6. When a careful Bible student reads the whole context they would find this....
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:17-18
What form of doctrine had they obeyed? The form he has been describing! Water Baptism. What happened AFTER they obeyed this doctrine? They were, at that point, made FREE FROM SIN. Your article is full of nonsense.
This is what water baptism does.....it removes sin. Acts 2:38. (And everybody knows acts 2 is immersion in water. It’s proven through acts 10).

Lol I found that on the internet...and what I was hoping you'd see was what He said about Paul.....Now here you go again with your negativeness...It's hard to respond to you..."what have you been reading" you say..

Take the facts...everything that one reads they do not accept...take the fact from it...and stop bullying(your extra comments)

Peace and blessing..I did respond to the other post you wrote that should be enough to think on right now....

 

[Cnkw3]

Again you are only seeing water Baptism
because you are interpreting, just maybe from what your church teaches, and not just accepting what the word says.

Maybe you can help me..
Mk 16:16. Is this water?
Matt 28: 19. Water?
Acts 2:38. Water?
Acts 8: 12,13. Water?
Acts 8:38,39. Water?
Acts 10: 48 Water?
Acts 16:15. Water?
Acts 16:33. Water?
Acts 18:8. Water?
Acts 19:5. Water?
Acts 22:16. Water?
If any of these are water then please tell me why they are water and why the others are not water? I want you to teach me so I don’t have to listen to some church people.

 

[gordon777]

Belief alone is what washes away our sins, water does not.

Belief in the water out of the belly of the Lord, what other water do you believe in that is pure ?



John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[Cnkw3]

Belief alone is what washes away our sins, water does not.

Scripture please.

 

[Walpole]

Belief alone is what washes away our sins, water does not.

Belief in the water out of the belly of the Lord, what other water do you believe in that is pure ?



John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

"...Even the demons believe—and shudder!" (James 2:19)

...Nice to know the sins of demons have been washed away.

 

[gordon777]

Demons and the ungodly profess they believe in God, and deny Him in works.


Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?



Unto the pure ( believing sincerely in Jesus Christ) all things are pure, and their hearts are not purified by water baptism but by faith.


Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.




Then our conscience is sprinkled( baptized with the blood of Jesus Christ) in the pure water that came from Christ( who is pure in our pure faith) to believe that Jesus Christ rose form the dead, no longer in an evil heart of unbelief in a defiled conscience.




Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[Runmyramble]

"...Even the demons believe—and shudder!" (James 2:19)

...Nice to know the sins of demons have been washed away.

But the belief he Is talking about is with the intent to follow.

The faith of Jesus ...Jesus obeyed the father and the father never left Him alone

James speaks of that type of faith
Faith that works by love

 

[Runmyramble]

Maybe you can help me..
Mk 16:16. Is this water?
Matt 28: 19. Water?
Acts 2:38. Water?
Acts 8: 12,13. Water?
Acts 8:38,39. Water?
Acts 10: 48 Water?
Acts 16:15. Water?
Acts 16:33. Water?
Acts 18:8. Water?
Acts 19:5. Water?
Acts 22:16. Water?
If any of these are water then please tell me why they are water and why the others are not water? I want you to teach me so I don’t have to listen to some church people.

Water Baptism is an outward expression of an inward conviction. What did Peter say......"who can forbid them water to those who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have....


God Justifies ....
So what and How are we Justified by? men...(outwardly)

Something else I see...if we did not live in that time....and we are looking in(back to their present)...you could not see into the Spiritual happenings.. But signs help us to understand what was happening Spiritually.

God is the beginning and the end
It's what we do in the middle with Him that is our salvation(deliverence, hiding place, protection, life)as we live upon the earth...

So when I see this Baptism in 1Peter 3....I see that
Jesus is faithful...Just as the ark was a secure source of Protection.

Anyway I'll leave with this passage:

Psalms 119:9-16 NKJV​

How can a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed according to Your word. With my whole heart I have sought You; Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments! Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You. Blessed are You, O LORD! Teach me Your statutes. With my lips I have declared All the judgments of Your mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies, As much as in all riches. I will meditate on Your precepts, And contemplate Your ways. I will delight myself in Your statutes; I will not forget Your word.

 

[Cnkw3]

Water Baptism is an outward expression of an inward conviction. What did Peter say......"who can forbid them water to those who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have....


God Justifies ....
So what and How are we Justified by? men...(outwardly)

Something else I see...if we did not live in that time....and we are looking in(back to their present)...you could not see into the Spiritual happenings.. But signs help us to understand what was happening Spiritually.

God is the beginning and the end
It's what we do in the middle with Him that is our salvation(deliverence, hiding place, protection, life)as we live upon the earth...

So when I see this Baptism in 1Peter 3....I see that
Jesus is faithful...Just as the ark was a secure source of Protection.

Anyway I'll leave with this passage:

Psalms 119:9-16 NKJV​

How can a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed according to Your word. With my whole heart I have sought You; Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments! Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You. Blessed are You, O LORD! Teach me Your statutes. With my lips I have declared All the judgments of Your mouth. I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies, As much as in all riches. I will meditate on Your precepts, And contemplate Your ways. I will delight myself in Your statutes; I will not forget Your word.

You don’t care to have a study of those examples I listed? They are the foundation for new covenant conversion. We need to know exactly what happened so we can do the same. They are our examples.
If these people were “baptized in the word” then I need to know which ones were word and which ones were water and why the difference? But if you don’t care to get to the truth then ok? Doesn’t surprise me. Most people just want there pet doctrine and don’t care to be challenged.
The difference is....I want people to challenge everything I teach from the Bible. If it’s truth it will stand up under any such challenge. I can go through each and every one of those examples and give you a detailed Bible answer for why they played out as they did because the Bible is in complete harmony with NO valid doctrinal contradictions.

 

[JLB]

Of course he does. Look at Rom 6..

Man does not cause us to be born again, as I said before, salvation, being born of the Spirit is the work of the Spirit, not man.


We are baptized in water by man, as a symbolic reference to identifying with the death and resurrection of Christ.

Water baptism takes place after we believe and are saved.

Believing (obeying) is how we are saved.

We are baptized into Christ by the Spirit, not man.

We are baptized in water, in the name of Jesus by man.

We are baptized by Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit.

Three different baptizms with three different baptisers.


JLB







.

 

[jaybo]

Why is this thread still going? The OP premise, that there is a baptism that save us now, is unScriptural. One is saved by believing in Jesus Christ as the savior and that He paid the price for the forgiveness of one's sin. Water baptism is a ritual. If it saved anyone, then everyone who John baptized in the Jordan River was saved and had no need for a savior.

John 3:16, " For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."

Even the out-of-context verse that some use (1 Peter 3:21):"And this prefigured baptism, which now saves you—not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience to God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." clearly shows that it is the pledge of a good conscience to God and the symbolic resurrection of the believer, not the immersion in water, that saves a person.

Looking at it from another angle, if all that was necessary to be saved was water baptism, then an unbeliever could be submerged in water and come out saved even if they were still an unbeliever. All you gotta' do is get wet and you will live forever! Neat, huh?

 

[Runmyramble]

You don’t care to have a study of those examples I listed? They are the foundation for new covenant conversion. We need to know exactly what happened so we can do the same. They are our examples.
If these people were “baptized in the word” then I need to know which ones were word and which ones were water and why the difference? But if you don’t care to get to the truth then ok? Doesn’t surprise me. Most people just want there pet doctrine and don’t care to be challenged.
The difference is....I want people to challenge everything I teach from the Bible. If it’s truth it will stand up under any such challenge. I can go through each and every one of those examples and give you a detailed Bible answer for why they played out as they did because the Bible is in complete harmony with NO valid doctrinal contradictions.

I don't mind looking at the scriptures..
But...the stance is water Baptism is an outward sign...

I have showed many scriptures...and I have yet to get responses...

So please use how you address me to yourself.......

 

[Runmyramble]

Interesting verse 18 of 1 Peter 3
Christ also suffered that He might bring us to?

" God "

How? Being put to death in the flesh...

But it doesn't stop there......

But quickened by the Spirit


What is interesting is it carries on with

By that same (alive).....quickened Spirit- he preached in the day of Noah

Interestingly...who believed?
1. Those who obeyed, who were saved(delivered through the water) those who were made alive by the word they believed?

So they were saved...way before they were saved..
Meaning they received the preached word which means they received His Spirit...and then they obeyed the Spirit by building the ark..etc..

Therefore what it mean "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

A. God is not dead, He is alive

B.what happens by the resurrection
a. We can live by His Spirit
1. over and over again
2. That's it ! we can live by His life...
@He basicallyexchanged(offered
His body for our lives, and
That's what we are to do for
others.

b. He lives forever to intercede on behalf
of those who come to Him
c. He is the eternal king
d. He is faithful

So end the end the Baptism that saves us is being immersed in real Life (God)through the preaching, teaching, of the word..

And there goes the Saying I am that I am..
God is His actions...His name is His actions...God acts...(these are my thoughts though)

God is the beginning and the end..
And if we want to be cleansed and at peace we need to get caught up with what God has already done, in the middle with Christ.

If you want to be a part of the living get caught up in what God is doing now..

 

[Runmyramble]

Interesting verse 18 of 1 Peter 3
Christ also suffered that He might bring us to?

" God "

How? Being put to death in the flesh...

But it doesn't stop there......

But quickened by the Spirit


What is interesting is it carries on with

By that same (alive).....quickened Spirit- he preached in the day of Noah

Interestingly...who believed?
1. Those who obeyed, who were saved(delivered through the water) those who were made alive by the word they believed?

So they were saved...way before they were saved..
Meaning they received the preached word which means they received His Spirit...and then they obeyed the Spirit by building the ark..etc..

Therefore what it mean "by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"

A. God is not dead, He is alive

B.what happens by the resurrection
a. We can live by His Spirit
1. over and over again
2. That's it ! we can live by His life...
@He basicallyexchanged(offered
His body for our lives, and
That's what we are to do for
others.

b. He lives forever to intercede on behalf
of those who come to Him
c. He is the eternal king
d. He is faithful

So end the end the Baptism that saves us is being immersed in real Life (God)through the preaching, teaching, of the word..

And there goes the Saying I am that I am..
God is His actions...His name is His actions...God acts...(these are my thoughts though)

God is the beginning and the end..
And if we want to be cleansed and at peace we need to get caught up with what God has already done, in the middle with Christ.

If you want to be a part of the living get caught up in what God is doing now..

Shoot this was deep...tks Spirit

 

[Runmyramble]

Why is this thread still going? The OP premise, that there is a baptism that save us now, is unScriptural. One is saved by believing in Jesus Christ as the savior and that He paid the price for the forgiveness of one's sin. Water baptism is a ritual. If it saved anyone, then everyone who John baptized in the Jordan River was saved and had no need for a savior.

John 3:16, " For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."

Even the out-of-context verse that some use (1 Peter 3:21):"And this prefigured baptism, which now saves you—not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience to God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." clearly shows that it is the pledge of a good conscience to God and the symbolic resurrection of the believer, not the immersion in water, that saves a person.

Looking at it from another angle, if all that was necessary to be saved was water baptism, then an unbeliever could be submerged in water and come out saved even if they were still an unbeliever. All you gotta' do is get wet and you will live forever! Neat, huh?

Baptism can mean immersion....

Correct me if I am wrong...it seems you are only thinking of one type....immersed into water...

However one can be immersed in many things..

Do you immerse yourself in your Job?
Do you immerse yourself in the teachings of Christ

Do you immerse yourself into your family..

If you do then what would they look like.

So there is a Baptism that saves us now..
Immersed into Life..(the presence of God)by the quickening of the Spirit by the preached word that is received and lived out.

Christ suffered that He might bring us to God....

CHRIST QUICKENED IN THE SPIRIT PREACHED THROUGH NOAH SALVATION.

Now How would they have had a clear conscience before God that they would not be destroyed in the flood?

They were making preparations (obedience to God) and God is Spirit.

So we can also say obedience to the Spirit...through the preached word....


One comes alive by the Spirit......to relate(have fellowship) with God who is Spirit