Runmyramble
Member
For God is not the God of the dead but the living...
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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What is The Baptism that saves us now?
- Thread starter Runmyramble
- Start date
I think you are stretching things. Baptism in the Bible means either of two things: baptism in water or baptism in the Holy Spirit.
But how does the Spirit “work”? He does it through his word. The Spirit does not work on us directly. That is even proven in the NT.
Did he work on the Jews in acts 2? No. The HS was not even promised until AFTER water baptism, which that proves acts 2 is not HS baptism.
Did he work on the Eunuch in acts 8? No he sent a preacher to preach the word and that is what saved the Eunuch.
Did he work on Cornelius? No he told him to send for a preacher that would tell him “words by which he would be saved”. The Spirit did not work on them directly for salvation.
If the Spirit works on man directly then why did Paul have to baptize the Ephesians for a second time and THEN lay hands on them to impart unto them spiritual gifts?
The Spirit works and leads through the word he has given us.
Another Bible example to prove this point. Look at these two parallel verses....
Eph 5:18,19 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
How are they to be “filled with the Spirit”? Directly? No!
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Parallel passage to Ephesians 5 but this time he says....let the word dwell in you!
How is one filled with Spirit? The Bible tells us how this happens and it is when you let word work in you.
Isn’t the Bible a wonderful book when you let IT do the talking instead of you changing the message.
TBC
See. You just changed the message. You say one thing the Bible says this....
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
When does the Bible say salvation occurs? AFTER baptism.
So salvation occurs before you “obey” the command to be water baptized? You just said....obeying is how we are saved! I guess you can obey everything BUT water baptism and still be saved. How convenient.
That’s not what Paul describes in Rom 6. You think Rom 6 is a description of Spirit baptism? Haha.
Buried and raised? Huh. Never new the Spirit baptism of the apostles in acts 2 looked like a burial and resurrection? That’s because it doesn’t.
It was described as rushing wind and cloven tongues of fire on their head. No burial or resurrection there.
Yes. Man cannot be saved without a man. Do you realize that God had to become a man in order to save mankind? Think about that for a moment. Maybe you need to change your understanding of the important role of man in salvation.
God the father. I’m assuming by “quickened” you mean resurrected.
We are all (mankind) made of flesh and Spirit. The Spirit as in the case of Jesus will live forever.
Walpole
Member
Great job here defending one of the core tenets of Christianity: the necessity of baptism.
It's astonishing to see people not only attacking it, but actually trying to argue against it.
Yes which is why I posted scripture for to validate all the different baptizms with three different baptisers.
We are baptized into Christ by the Spirit, not man.
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13
We are baptized in water, in the name of Jesus by man.
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5
We are baptized by Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit.
Three different baptizms with three different baptisers.
JLB
Salvation occurs when we are baptized by the Spirit into Christ: ie born again
Then after we are saved, born again, we are baptized in water by man.
Elijah falls in the context of your complaining about my sarcasm. Within that context he is completely relevant. he mocked those who were false teachers. When you tell me that 1 pet 3:21 has nothing to do with water you are going to get mocked and there may be much sarcasm because your answer is that off the reservation. It deserves sarcasm.
That’s all you’ve done. When you tell me I’m wrong you are telling me I’m teaching false doctrine which makes me a false teacher. But feel free to laugh at me all you want. It does not matter what you say to me or how. It won’t bother me.
Where have I gotten off subject?
Maybe not yours.
I don’t think you are. You have a belief system that will never change no matter what you are shown. Like this....
Jesus said...
He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
You say that we are saved before baptism. Or we are saved by “immersion in the word”. Definitely not water. Everybody, most everybody, acknowledges that the great commission baptism is in water. It was commanded for men to perform (which rules out HS baptism) but you say it’s not. I asked you in post 487 to go through that little list and tell me what was water and what wasn’t but you haven’t done it, nor will you. Why? I think it’s because you know what answer you will have to give and that is not a position you want to be caught in. So you dodge. Like most others.
You have had ample time to show me where I have taken anything out of context. I’ll be happy to go over that with you.
You are correct.
Really? Did Jesus ever call anyone a false teacher? If so then I guess that truly shows who he really was.
Hahahaha! That’s all I can say to that one.
You are correct nor have I ever claimed to be.
I might argue this point with you. I do think you can know what’s in a persons heart by what they do and what they say and how they treat Gods word..
It’s actually....let God be true but every man a liar.
Gods word is truth. Jn 17:17.
When man comes up and speaks his own man made doctrine like....water has nothing to do with salvation when the Bible clearly says it does it makes man out to be a liar. We are commanded......”if any man speak let him speak as the oracles of God”. This means spiritual teaching needs to come from book, chapter, and verse. Anything else is made up. You saying that great commission baptism has nothing to do with water is made up and can be proven many times over.
I get it....I’m now gonna get banned because I used the words
“Made up”.
Amen! I have never said anything about you personally. I’m sure you are a very nice and caring person you are just wrong by what you have been taught. That’s not my fault.
Thank you and yes I am always surprised at the lengths people will go to do away with water.
Water Baptism is symbolic of death and resurrection.
Water Baptism is done by man.
Being born again is about birth, not death, and is a work of the Spirit, not man.
The Spirit baptizes us into Christ.
Very simple.
Three distinct baptisms, with three distinct baptizers.
Again, these are foreshowed in the old Testament.
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1 Corinthians 10:1-2
-- all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
This typifies being baptized into Christ, in water, and in the Spirit.
If you chose to ignore the scriptures pertaining to this subject, you will continue to be in the dark.
JLB
Runmyramble
Member
Lol I read the last part...and it's your opinion that I am wrong...and I have no more to add to this...Peace
Runmyramble
Member
That's not true...If you do not agree with people you do not have to make lies up.
You been here long enough to see what is being debated....not water Baptism as an outward sign....but the Baptism that saves us now....many Catholics believe water baptism saves you....While others believe it is an outward sign...
I don’t believe it is my opinion. We can go a long way to clearing this up if you will just go down my list in post 487. You say that everybody is immersed in the word. Just show me which examples of conversion are word immersion and which ones are actually water and why the difference. That shouldn’t be very hard. This is how you debate with scripture, right?
You run from a debate by telling me I’m wrong and then refuse to answer my above question.
Did you just copy and paste your previous post? It seems very familiar. All I did was ask you to answer a very simple question about Rom 6. Is it that difficult? If Rom 6 is not describing water baptism then please explain it to us all how Spirit baptism looks like a burial and resurrection?
Because.....whatever baptism he is describing in those verses is the baptism that places us into Christ. We know this because he uses the word “therefore” in vs 4 to tie what he said to what he is about to say.
Taking part of one verse out of context to prove doctrine shows that you are misinterpreting the Bible.
Here is how we are saved...
Ephesians 2:8-9, " For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works [including baptism], so that no one can boast.
John 3:16-17, "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him."
Water baptism is a ritual statement identifying the person with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If water baptism saved people, then all the people whom John baptized in the Jordan river had no need for a savior (which is of course absurd).
Your understanding of water baptism is entirely wrong.
Walpole
Member
Scripture explicitly states baptism, which by definition necessitates water, saves...
1 Peter 3:20-21 ---> "...because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but vas an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
The Apostle links the deluge to baptism. The water saved Noah and his family and the waters of baptism now saves you. We know he means actual water because he says baptism is not for the removal of dirt from one's body, but is instead salvific. If the baptism he was speaking about was symbolic, that is one sans water, it would not even be capable of removing dirt from the body.
In Christianity, matter...matters.
Runmyramble
Member
Hi ..We already been through this...I doubt that what is written is actually read here..so...If you choose to believe Water Baptism saves you so be it to your own understanding.
"But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."
Key note: as I have wrote before: the Gentiles were considered dogs and recall the Jews were the chosen....So how would you manifest openly to the world
What God was teaching Peter.....(that scripture above) He taught Peter in that vision that what God has made clean let no man say is unclean.
So Baptism is that way to openly manifest that we are all under the same faith...
Dallas Willard speaks on this..I'll share the url when I find it again.
It is being caught up in distinction that Mark ourselves out from others that create division in the church....
I have been there as a Baptist in my immature understanding and I learned I was The pharasee spoken of...because if people did not believe like me I felt I did not have to consider them....Muslims wear their clothing...and many believe because you do not wear what they wear..they have a right to despise you...
Anyway..I hope you see this if nothing else...peace and blessings
Romans 2:28
28A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God.
Runmyramble
Member
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
If in your heart you boast because you "do" something that someone else doesn't that saves you..and its not like that scripture above I think it's reevaluation time.
That is why its based on what He has done...it gets rid of all boasting that causes division...