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What is The Baptism that saves us now?

jaybo said:
Baptism doesn't remove past sins.
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Yikes, you mean Mark was lying about John the Baptist when he said..."John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 1:4)
Was Luke also lying when he wrote..."And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" (Luke 3:3)
I will believe what is written in the bible instead of what an unbaptized man taught you.
jaybo said:
The blood of Christ is the full penalty for all sins. It is only belief in Him as one's Savior that causes sins to be "removed". Baptism in water is simply a ritual stating that one repents of past sins (but it doesn't remove them) and one is symbolically emerging as a new creation.
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It is not a "penalty", but it is the payment for our past sins.
And it is applied to us when we are baptized into Christ and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3-6)
jaybo said:
If water baptism achieved remission for past sins then all those who came to John to be symbolically cleansed in the Jordan River had no need for Christ.
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They still needed the One who John got them ready for, by their cleansing and turn from sin.
In the NT, we do the same, but in the name of Jesus Christ, in whom we are provided our own death and burial...and most importantly our being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
John's baptism couldn't provide the new birth Jesus said was necessary for eternal life.
 
Mungo said:
I'm not wrong.
Perhaps you could provide the scriptural evidence to show I'm wrong.
But you won't - because there is none.
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I'm putting you on ignore. You are constantly wrong and provide no evidence to proceed otherwise. You ban me so I "ban" you.
 
Walpole said:
Enlighten me. Where do you receive this baptism Jesus instructed? Again, Jesus' last instructions are to teach and baptize. He then gives the proper form: "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

Question #1 ---> Can you demonstrate where someone is baptized dry, that is, using the form given by Jesus where someone is baptized without a single drop of water?

a. Yes
b. No


Question #2 ---> If I went to your church and asked for a dry baptism with just the Spirit and no water - as you and others are arguing - would your pastor simply say over me, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" and would I therefore be considered baptized?

a. Yes
b. No


Scripture says there is only ONE baptism. If Jesus said you must be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and if this is the ONE dry baptism you are advocating, you should be able to demonstrate this form being used for the dry baptism. If not, then you would have no way of knowing if you are even baptized. So, have you ever seen someone baptized using the form given by Jesus without any water?

We are witnessing in near real time the folly of trying to start a new belief based on another religion's (Christianity) beliefs. In Christianity, matter...matters.
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Well honestly I do say you are right..
But not new beliefs, in the sense they have not been there but old beliefs distorted through language.

God is real...it's not about talking things up...It's about living out His Life...

One has to taste and see that the Lord is good...seek first the kingdom and it's righteousness...

God is real..And He came that we may have Life and have it more abundantly...

There has so much that has already been written. Go back and read and asked God for revelation. As a Baptist I had to be humbled. We can't go in thinking we know it all.. You can...but good luck..
There is a point in time when one has to be open to the truth...

If you believe everything your church teaches... no one can change your mind against your will...but presenting truths can make you think.
My talent in life according to my dad was that I have the ability to make people think.

So my friend in Christ I may post for others...as I am studying...but one has to be open to the truth...

Things that you are asking have already been answered...

Peace and blessings
 
Walpole said:
Enlighten me. Where do you receive this baptism Jesus instructed? Again, Jesus' last instructions are to teach and baptize. He then gives the proper form: "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

Question #1 ---> Can you demonstrate where someone is baptized dry, that is, using the form given by Jesus where someone is baptized without a single drop of water?

a. Yes
b. No


Question #2 ---> If I went to your church and asked for a dry baptism with just the Spirit and no water - as you and others are arguing - would your pastor simply say over me, "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" and would I therefore be considered baptized?

a. Yes
b. No


Scripture says there is only ONE baptism. If Jesus said you must be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and if this is the ONE dry baptism you are advocating, you should be able to demonstrate this form being used for the dry baptism. If not, then you would have no way of knowing if you are even baptized. So, have you ever seen someone baptized using the form given by Jesus without any water?

We are witnessing in near real time the folly of trying to start a new belief based on another religion's (Christianity) beliefs. In Christianity, matter...matters.
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Quote from Dallas Willard

"Immerse them together in the presence of the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yes, baptize them in the name, but, dear friends, that doesn't just mean getting them wet while you say those names. It means to immerse them in the Reality.”
 
jaybo said:
I'm putting you on ignore. You are constantly wrong and provide no evidence to proceed otherwise. You ban me so I "ban" you.
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So although you claim to be Sola Scriptura you don't actually have any scriptures to back up your opinions in post #538.

And I note you have failed to respond to Hopeful's post #542 which debuked your claims.
 
Runmyramble said:
Quote from Dallas Willard

"Immerse them together in the presence of the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Yes, baptize them in the name, but, dear friends, that doesn't just mean getting them wet while you say those names. It means to immerse them in the Reality.”
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Now if you asked me about this I could do my best to explain...

But first one has to see that Salvation is not just about you going to heaven when You die..."And trying to seal the deal"

It's also about life Now and the reason He saved us...

If you go back to what is written in the old testament books...you will see that God is the Same....

He showed us through the Chosen Israel under the Law...that we could not obey through the flesh because the flesh was weak.

But the Flesh, what we do in our own power needed to be guided by a new heart

God wanted to be known and around His people..So therefore the earthly Tent ..so the system of priestly sacrifices etc, which were shadows of what came later


Understanding how one came in fellowship with God is key..

The issue with the old covenant is in this passage Hebrews 10...

Sorry cut short I'll finish later..
 
Walpole said:
Exactly.

Notice not one person has answered my simple questions. These "baptism does not involve water" folks not only cannot answer how to receive this baptism sans water, but have no way of knowing whether or not they have even been baptized via their own "dry" baptism.
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Life....real life
 
Walpole said:
There is only one baptism. (Eph 4:5)

Baptism, by definition, necessitates water. Yet water by itself is not a baptism and it exercises no power on its own; for it is but a material sign of what is communicated spiritually. It is only with the Holy Spirit does it become baptism. Christian baptism requires water and the Holy Spirit. (cf. John 3:5)


Water in salvation history brings both death and life. It represents the destruction of the old (former ways) and recreates something new. The waters of the deluge washed the sinners away, and through it something new was created. Thus St. Peter tells us Noah and the other seven were saved through water. St. Paul tells us Moses and the Israelites were baptized "...in the cloud and in the sea" (cf. 1 Cor 10:2). As with the deluge, water brought forth death and life. What the Jews call the miracle of the parting of the Sea, St. Paul calls a baptism. This is a type of Christian baptism, with the cloud representing the spirit and the sea representing the living waters of baptism.

We also have the example of our Blessed Lord in his own baptism. St. Matthew tells us He went into the water and the Spirit depended upon him. (cf. Matthew 3:16) This is what it means to be baptized.

Lastly, going back to 1 Peter 3:20-21, where the Apostle explicitly states baptism is salvific, he dispels any notion that baptism can be done sans water. Here again are his words...

"...to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." (1 Peter 3:20-21)

The Apostle links the deluge to baptism. The water saved Noah and his family and the waters of baptism now saves you. We know he means actual water because he says baptism is not for the removal of dirt from one's body, but is instead salvific. If the baptism he was speaking about was symbolic, that is one sans water, it would not even be capable of removing dirt from the body. So clearly WATER is involved in this baptism that is salvific. Baptism is the anti-type of the waters of the deluge. The waters of baptism now cleanse not our flesh, but our sin. (cf. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Titus 3:5) Hence its effect is not on our flesh (i.e. removal of dirt), but rather on our interior.

This is why you, nor anyone else, can answer my simple questions. For if there were such a thing as a salvific dry baptism, you would be able to easily answer my questions, which you and others have all dodged.

In Christianity, matter...matters.
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One thing I do on this Forum and I'm not trying to boast...but I have to do it....Even If there are many Catholics here..

Is I do not limit myself nor trap myself in limiting God to a doctrine... I don't understand everything but as I meditate
and study I been seeing things revealed that I never saw.

As said earlier you know what you want to believe and are sticking to your Chatholicism...and your mind will not be open until you let truth in...Your understanding, and I'm not trying to agitate, is limited to your Catholic doctrines.

So if you really want to see...you have to open your eyes. You are fighting against understanding.

Your questions in a sense Have been answered but your eyes are not open.

If I said God is not dead He is alive...would you see that Baptism, the one spoken of as a reality "life"

If I said life breeds life..? No you would not understand....God is not limited to our boxes we try to place Him in and interpret from.

I had to learn this as a Baptist.....
Boxes are things you must believe to fit into peoples groups so that they can judge if you are hell and heaven bound.

But salvation and deliverence are not in boxes man's doctrines. It's in a Person who is to be believed on for who He is.

That is why there is no boasting In Christ...

No one is changing the truth here...The fact that many people are not like those we witness in the Bible is because of those boxes we try to limit God in. And of course the way language and word meaning has been distorted over time.

So someone can answer your question but you will not see until your eyes are opened...(I'm not saying that negatively)

In here I am learning, I am always learning. The only thing I need pin pointed down is that the revelation of Christ is the foundation. Everything else will grow from the foundation of Christ.

While your foundation seems to be on men....which is why you see what you see so differently. So for right now it is what it is....Peace and blessing
 
Runmyramble said:
So wouldn't He already be Baptized Into Christ at this point..
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Yes. We are baptized into Christ by the Spirit.


Paul teaches us we must present the members of our body as members of righteousness, thereby no longer presenting our members as slaves to sin. The sin that continues to dwell in our flesh.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


We are not to walk according to our flesh. Why?


Why are we to not walk according to our flesh if it is sinless?


Our flesh still contains sin.




JLB
 
JLB said:
Brother, the reason I repeated part of my post is, you have completely ignored the scriptures that I posted, and the points I made from those scriptures.

I know it may be hard for you to grasp, but Romans 6 is not the only passage that teaches us about baptisms.
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There is only one verse in post 512. I’ve dealt with it.
You are correct. There are many passages that deal with baptism. Rom 6 is a great description of exactly what baptism is and what is for. He is drawing a picture so there is no confusion.
Here are a few that mention baptism.
Maybe you can help me..
Mk 16:16. Is this water?
Matt 28: 19. Water?
Acts 2:38. Water?
Acts 8: 12,13. Water?
Acts 8:38,39. Water?
Acts 10: 48 Water?
Acts 16:15. Water?
Acts 16:33. Water?
Acts 18:8. Water?
Acts 19:5. Water?
Acts 22:16. Water?
Please tell me which ones are water and which ones are not. This is very important and nobody wants to go down the list. These converts are examples for us. We are not saved in a different way from the very first converts. It is called a “common salvation” for a reason. Did these people above just accept Jesus as savior without being immersed in water? If so we need to know. If not then we can quit teaching that doctrine because we’ll know it’s false.
JLB said:
Please acknowledge that you read the different Scriptures I quoted, and that you understand that there are three different baptisms, that involve three different baptizers.


JLB
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There is Johns baptism that is no longer in effect.
There is HS baptism that is no longer in effect. If it is then show me the examples where the Spirit was baptizing all of these converts in the book of acts.
There is great commission baptism in water that is still in effect today. This is the “one baptism” of Eph 4. We know this is the one baptism because Jesus commanded it to be done AFTER preaching the gospel in order to save sinners. Mk 16:16. Acts 2:38. Please show me where Jesus EVER commanded HS baptism! He never did. There is actually more then 3 baptisms, like the baptism unto Moses, baptism of suffering, baptism of fire which is yet to come. So if you want to talk baptisms plural I am more then happy to do that.
 
JLB said:
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Acts 1:8



JLB
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Wow! How tricky! Are you doing this on purpose? You know good and well this promise above WAS NOT made to you and me. Let’s post some of the other passages of the context to show the truth.
Acts 1:2,4,5,8 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

He gave commandments unto the APOSTLES! This was not to any of us.
JLB. If this is for you, then you must have received your HS baptism in Jerusalem because this is where the promise was to be received. How long did you have to wait in Jerusalem? Just curious. The apostles had to wait 10 days.
 
What a crock .
Notice how the water Baptizers claim that being baptized by an unbelieving Satan worshiping mass murderer would have the same saving impact as being baptized by Billy Grahm .
No difference whatsoever!
Not because they have scripture to back it up, but because human nature gives them no choice but to say so.
Anytime you are forced to endorse another's salvation as being dependent upon the lowest common denominator of human evil above the power of God to save unto the uttermost you operating according to the weights and measurements of the flesh rather than the Spirit.
It's all about the observable ritual for them.


Heb 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him....
 
Consecrated Life said:
What a crock .
Notice how the water Baptizers claim that being baptized by an unbelieving Satan worshiping mass murderer would have the same saving impact as being baptized by Billy Grahm .
No difference whatsoever!
Not because they have scripture to back it up, but because human nature gives them no choice but to say so.
Anytime you are forced to endorse another's salvation as being dependent upon the lowest common denominator of human evil above the power of God to save unto the uttermost you operating according to the weights and measurements of the flesh rather than the Spirit.
It's all about the observable ritual for them.


Heb 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him....
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Haha...
1 cor 1:27,28 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
So you have to be baptized by a “saint” for it to be effective? I do not believe that Billy Graham taught the truth. Would it matter if someone taught false doctrine? A sinner is a sinner.

We all should realize it is the belief of the person being baptized that matters.
Not the spiritual state of the one doing the immersing.
 
Many things I say may be pieces until they come together...

Which brings me to what I think I'm seeing....and what I see can be corrected by scripture....But I'm putting it out there...

What I think I see through scripture is that....
Believing who Jesus is with intent to follow is how we receive the Spirit

Question do you know you received it at this point...?

Now start continually obeying the Spirit.....

So now what is inside is where? Manifested On the outside .

Therefore yes there is one Baptism... the trinity... it's God, and God is Spirit that must be worshipped in Spirit and truth.

And in my opinion that may mean, with the right attitude or heart.

But back to seeing something that came to me.....the word you received is Spirit when acted on becomes life..

And so this is How it came to me. Rather It's right has to be backed up in scripture.
But definitely can see being immersed here. (From the inside out)

If one looks at the case of the disciples Jesus breathed on them and said receive ye the Spirit.

He said wait in Jerusalem until you receive power from on high.

What were they doing when they received power? Tarrying; Praying (acting on the word)

Real Life is real power to me.
It's life that moves people...and Life that sustains people therefore you must be born from above. Or, as told to Nicademus you cant see the kingdom.
So the water is the water of the word poured out on believers that rereceived Jesus as their king...
For out of Jesus side came pure water
And His blood will give life, because without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin. HIS HUMAN LIFE (BLOOD) FOR OUR LIFE


Now go to what is said to Titus
JLB said:
Yes. We are baptized into Christ by the Spirit.


Paul teaches us we must present the members of our body as members of righteousness, thereby no longer presenting our members as slaves to sin. The sin that continues to dwell in our flesh.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


We are not to walk according to our flesh. Why?


Why are we to not walk according to our flesh if it is sinless?


Our flesh still contains sin.




JLB
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Hi thanks for your response😁
But I am not sure you understood where I was coming from...or maybe you do and are just advanced in your understanding.

Because when I think of Baptized into Christ...We are all under the same Spiritual teachings..

And I have always seen it as "a one time deal" as you are put in with the body of believers......(yet I may be wrong somewhere in that thought)

With that said, in 1st Peter 3:21, "even Baptism doth also now save us"...

I was thinking...He says now save us....oh, being in Christ...ok I see..

Which is still ongoing for sanctification...
Cool tks...I got it
 
Runmyramble said:
Many things I say may be pieces until they come together...

Which brings me to what I think I'm seeing....and what I see can be corrected by scripture....But I'm putting it out there...

What I think I see through scripture is that....
Believing who Jesus is with intent to follow is how we receive the Spirit

Question do you know you received it at this point...?

Now start continually obeying the Spirit.....

So now what is inside is where? Manifested On the outside .

Therefore yes there is one Baptism... the trinity... it's God, and God is Spirit that must be worshipped in Spirit and truth.

And in my opinion that may mean, with the right attitude or heart.

But back to seeing something that came to me.....the word you received is Spirit when acted on becomes life..

And so this is How it came to me. Rather It's right has to be backed up in scripture.
But definitely can see being immersed here. (From the inside out)

If one looks at the case of the disciples Jesus breathed on them and said receive ye the Spirit.

He said wait in Jerusalem until you receive power from on high.

What were they doing when they received power? Tarrying; Praying (acting on the word)

Real Life is real power to me.
It's life that moves people...and Life that sustains people therefore you must be born from above. Or, as told to Nicademus you cant see the kingdom.
So the water is the water of the word poured out on believers that rereceived Jesus as their king...
For out of Jesus side came pure water
And His blood will give life, because without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin. HIS HUMAN LIFE (BLOOD) FOR OUR LIFE


Now go to what is said to Titus

Hi thanks for your response😁
But I am not sure you understood where I was coming from...or maybe you do and are just advanced in your understanding.

Because when I think of Baptized into Christ...We are all under the same Spiritual teachings..

And I have always seen it as "a one time deal" as you are put in with the body of believers......(yet I may be wrong somewhere in that thought)

With that said, in 1st Peter 3:21, "even Baptism doth also now save us"...

I was thinking...He says now save us....oh, being in Christ...ok I see..

Which is still ongoing for sanctification...
Cool tks...I got it
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Opps I hate when I do that..I was typing earlier fell asleep didnt finish...and then a post I didn't finish appears.....before responding to yours..opps
 
A while back I started a post what does it mean to be in Christ...not sure it was this site though....

So Christ is in us....but are we in Him
Key is if any man be in Christ He is a new creation. So what does it mean...my guess would be to live by the Spirit, teachings, word..

There is a difference between being in the light and walking in the light.

Another words you know the way...now walk in the way....

The difference is in the action...that clearly puts away the deeds of the flesh as we walk in the Spirit..

Is it a good intentional act of the mind...yes...for one aspect has to be the justification from God and the other before Men.......
 
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