What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[Hopeful]

?

If you tap on the circled arrow after a poster's underlined name, it will take you back to what they responded to.

 

[Runmyramble]

It wasn't sinless.

I don't know what version of the bible you are citing, but the word "mortify" in the KJV means "keep dead".
I don't need to keep killing myself, as it was done once already, at my "immersion" into Christ and into His death and burial.

Hey hopeful....
This is getting good- it may be what many need to understand....But Salvation as you may know...is not just about heaven when one dies....

It's about getting heaven into us now...
With that said ....
And...the symbolic representation of the earthly tabernacle helps us to understand How we can be in God's presence. The kingdom is not eating nor drinking but peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost...

It's about upholding God's commands. And How that is done is another post...

 

[Hopeful]

Hey hopeful....
This is getting good- it may be what many need to understand....But Salvation as you may know...is not just about heaven when one dies....

It's about getting heaven into us now...
With that said ....
And...the symbolic representation of the earthly tabernacle helps us to understand How we can be in God's presence. The kingdom is not eating nor drinking but peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost...

It's about upholding God's commands. And How that is done is another post...

It is about getting Christ in us now.
It is written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)

 

[JLB]

Do you ever not know?

Since the "knowing" or "intimate experiencing" is in my Spirit, where the Spirit of Life dwells, the Spirit of Christ abides, and not my mind or emotions, the answer is no.


Now my mind, the un-renewed part of my mind, or my emotions my be tossed around but my heart, my inner man, my spirit remains at peace with God; secure in hope.


Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:6-7

• and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Your allusion to the different parts of the OT temple juxtaposed with, in your words..."and typify us the human being in the New Testament."
What difference does it make of which part of the temple we are?
We are the temple.

Our body is the temple, our spirit is the dwelling place of the Spirit.

Sanctification is the process by which we are becoming holy, becoming transformed by the renewing process of our mind.

We still have the same physical body we were born with.

We will receive a new resurrected body at His coming.

Not until then.



JLB

 

[JLB]

It wasn't sinless.

I don't know what version of the bible you are citing, but the word "mortify" in the KJV means "keep dead".
I don't need to keep killing myself, as it was done once already, at my "immersion" into Christ and into His death and burial.

Symbolically, it was because that is what we are agreeing to when we are baptized in water, to publicly profess our commitment to be crucified to this world.

We walk this commitment out each and every day by the power of the Holy Spirit.


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:12-13


Thank God we have the scriptures to teach us the truth, to help and instruct us to live a life of victory that comes from the power of the Holy Spirit who leads us daily in crucifying our flesh, something that natural water can never do.


Take up our cross daily.




JLB

 

[Runmyramble]

Since the "knowing" or "intimate experiencing" is in my Spirit, where the Spirit of Life dwells, the Spirit of Christ abides, and not my mind or emotions, the answer is no.


Now my mind, the un-renewed part of my mind, or my emotions my be tossed around but my heart, my inner man, my spirit remains at peace with God; secure in hope.


Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:6-7

• and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

JLB

Thanks for answering....appreciate your honesty....

 

[Runmyramble]

It is about getting Christ in us now.
It is written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)

Christ is in us the hope of Glory, But God is in Christ. That is where the Picture of the tabernacle may be helpful.

Seeing that we want the whole body, soul, and Spirit preserved the day of the Lord.

So here is the passage I was referring to when I said it's about getting heaven in you now......For the contrast was...it's not
just about heaven when you die, vs. heaven in you now; speaking of the father and son coming in to make their abode with us...if we keep the commands.(teachings,words)

Another words as we live by the Spirit our hearts are changed, and in making the heart good, then what's in the heart come out of the mouth(meaning our deeds will be good too) ...when what we say and do add up...that's what I am referring to.


Scripture reference:

1 Thess 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 14
23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24Whoever does not love Me does not keep My words. The word that you hear is not My own, but it is from the Father who sent Me.

 

[pierac]

Hi everyone...and to all my fellow Christian's in Christ...
I love the passage in 1 peter 3
And I have an Ideal of what I believe..
But I want to know first your thoughts...

Your thread talks about Baptism... But is lacking in your post??? What gives???

Now.... Back to your topic which you failed to address.... "What is The Baptism that saves us now?"​

We now come to an important aspect of the teaching of "the Mystery." When did we first obtain all our spiritual blessings "in Christ"? Paul said: "According as he [God] hath chosen us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4). Our being "in Christ" was made legal in the eyes of the Father even before the physical cosmos which we see around us came into existence. We were then given the legal status of being reckoned as the very children of God Himself. "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of His will" (Ephesians 1:5). This divine position of being accounted as God’s own children was accomplished by Christ "according to the good pleasure of His will" -- not by our own wills. Indeed, we didn’t even exist at the time. But so certain was this divine status assured to us, that the apostle Paul even deemed that each of us was already saved in Christ long before Adam was ever created. "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ before the world began" (II Timothy 1:9). We were considered to be in Christ even at that distant time in the past. But it doesn’t end there.

When Christ came into this world and became a human baby we were also reckoned by the Father to have been "in Christ" at that time too. How can we know this? Because eight days after Christ’s birth he was circumcised in the Temple at Jerusalem. And what does Paul say of this act as far as our legal relationship to Christ was concerned? "In whom [in Christ] also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ" (Colossians 2:1). In other words, when Christ was circumcised as a baby of eight days, you and I (male or female makes no difference for this is a religious and legal principle being discussed) were also circumcised in the eyes of the Father at the same time! But it doesn’t end there.

We continued in a legal sense to be "in Christ" for about thirty years -- until the time of His baptism by John the Baptist. And then what happened according to Paul? That is when each of us was unitedly "buried with him in baptism" (Colossians 2:12). The truth is, Paul was telling the Colossians (and all of us) that when John the Baptist was baptizing Christ for sins, it was not Christ’s sins that were being washed away (because He had none personally). It was our sins that were legally being washed away. Since we were then "in Christ," we were vicariously accounted by the Father as being baptized when John baptized Christ. This means that legally each of you has been baptized in the River Jordan by no less than John the Baptist himself! This is the "one baptism" that now counts in your salvation (Ephesians 4:5), not the one (or ones) performed on you by some other humans here on earth. But it doesn’t end there.

When Christ died on the tree of crucifixion, you were still "in Christ" at that time too. Paul said even before the teaching of "the Mystery" that "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me" (Galatians 2:20). This means that when Christ died by crucifixion, the Father reckons that you died with Him because you were "in Christ" at the time. But it doesn’t end there.

When Christ was risen from the dead three days later, you were also risen up with Him! As Paul taught: "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Colossians 3:1). That’s right! When Christ was risen from the dead, the Father legally reckoned that you also were risen from the dead at the same time. Not only that, since after death all people are destined to be resurrected and go to the judgment (Hebrews 9:27,28), so likewise Christ went through a judgment after His death (as all humans must do), and He passed through triumphantly. And what did the Father do with Christ after He passed His judgment with no sins on His records (only perfect obedience was recorded)? The Father told Christ to come forward and sit on His right hand.

While this was all fine with Christ, what about you and me? What is wonderful is the teaching of "the Mystery" that you and I were also "in Christ" even at that time. In the eyes of the Father each of us went triumphantly with Christ through the judgment and sat down with Him on the right hand of the Father Himself That’s right, you and I are still "in Christ" and we are presently sitting (and I mean in a legal sense right at this very moment) on that very throne in heaven. Paul said: God "hath quickened us together [made us alive together] with Christ (by grace are ye saved), and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:5,6). We are considered to be in heaven "where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God" (Colossians 3:1). We have passed our judgment with Him and are legally sitting in Him and He in us at the right hand of the Father!

When the Father looks over to His right and sees Christ sitting there beside Him as His own firstborn of all creation, the Father also sees each of us (in a very personal way) legally sitting there with Him. That is what the teaching of "The Mystery" is all about. The Father has no second born children. He only has firstborn! Each of us (and soon the whole human race once they are redeemed) will be sitting in that same firstborn position "in Christ" in the very family of the living God! That’s why Paul said in the teaching of "the Mystery" that each of us makes up "the household of God." We are a part of the divine family of God that controls and governs the entirety of this universe. Our destiny (even before the creation of Adam) has been to become the very children of God! And each of us will perform that role because of the works of Christ on our behalf. We have been saved "in Christ" from before the foundation of the physical cosmos (II Timothy 1:9). And though the Father kept the understanding of this divine truth a secret from the beginning of the world, He saw fit to give that knowledge to the world in A.D.63 through His apostles.

Glad I could help...
Paul

 

[Runmyramble]

Your thread talks about Baptism... But is lacking in your post??? What gives???

You? Waiting for the Master teacher

Now.... Back to your topic which you failed to address.... "What is The Baptism that saves us now?"​

Well thanks so much for your kindness...that sure is encouraging
I'll have to read this later after I let go of your comments....

We now come to an important aspect of the teaching of "the Mystery." When did we first obtain all our spiritual blessings "in Christ"? Paul said: "According as he [God] hath chosen us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4). Our being "in Christ" was made legal in the eyes of the Father even before the physical cosmos which we see around us came into existence. We were then given the legal status of being reckoned as the very children of God Himself. "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of His will" (Ephesians 1:5). This divine position of being accounted as God’s own children was accomplished by Christ "according to the good pleasure of His will" -- not by our own wills. Indeed, we didn’t even exist at the time. But so certain was this divine status assured to us, that the apostle Paul even deemed that each of us was already saved in Christ long before Adam was ever created. "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ before the world began" (II Timothy 1:9). We were considered to be in Christ even at that distant time in the past. But it doesn’t end there.

When Christ came into this world and became a human baby we were also reckoned by the Father to have been "in Christ" at that time too. How can we know this? Because eight days after Christ’s birth he was circumcised in the Temple at Jerusalem. And what does Paul say of this act as far as our legal relationship to Christ was concerned? "In whom [in Christ] also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ" (Colossians 2:1). In other words, when Christ was circumcised as a baby of eight days, you and I (male or female makes no difference for this is a religious and legal principle being discussed) were also circumcised in the eyes of the Father at the same time! But it doesn’t end there.

We continued in a legal sense to be "in Christ" for about thirty years -- until the time of His baptism by John the Baptist. And then what happened according to Paul? That is when each of us was unitedly "buried with him in baptism" (Colossians 2:12). The truth is, Paul was telling the Colossians (and all of us) that when John the Baptist was baptizing Christ for sins, it was not Christ’s sins that were being washed away (because He had none personally). It was our sins that were legally being washed away. Since we were then "in Christ," we were vicariously accounted by the Father as being baptized when John baptized Christ. This means that legally each of you has been baptized in the River Jordan by no less than John the Baptist himself! This is the "one baptism" that now counts in your salvation (Ephesians 4:5), not the one (or ones) performed on you by some other humans here on earth. But it doesn’t end there.

When Christ died on the tree of crucifixion, you were still "in Christ" at that time too. Paul said even before the teaching of "the Mystery" that "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me" (Galatians 2:20). This means that when Christ died by crucifixion, the Father reckons that you died with Him because you were "in Christ" at the time. But it doesn’t end there.

When Christ was risen from the dead three days later, you were also risen up with Him! As Paul taught: "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Colossians 3:1). That’s right! When Christ was risen from the dead, the Father legally reckoned that you also were risen from the dead at the same time. Not only that, since after death all people are destined to be resurrected and go to the judgment (Hebrews 9:27,28), so likewise Christ went through a judgment after His death (as all humans must do), and He passed through triumphantly. And what did the Father do with Christ after He passed His judgment with no sins on His records (only perfect obedience was recorded)? The Father told Christ to come forward and sit on His right hand.

While this was all fine with Christ, what about you and me? What is wonderful is the teaching of "the Mystery" that you and I were also "in Christ" even at that time. In the eyes of the Father each of us went triumphantly with Christ through the judgment and sat down with Him on the right hand of the Father Himself That’s right, you and I are still "in Christ" and we are presently sitting (and I mean in a legal sense right at this very moment) on that very throne in heaven. Paul said: God "hath quickened us together [made us alive together] with Christ (by grace are ye saved), and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:5,6). We are considered to be in heaven "where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God" (Colossians 3:1). We have passed our judgment with Him and are legally sitting in Him and He in us at the right hand of the Father!

When the Father looks over to His right and sees Christ sitting there beside Him as His own firstborn of all creation, the Father also sees each of us (in a very personal way) legally sitting there with Him. That is what the teaching of "The Mystery" is all about. The Father has no second born children. He only has firstborn! Each of us (and soon the whole human race once they are redeemed) will be sitting in that same firstborn position "in Christ" in the very family of the living God! That’s why Paul said in the teaching of "the Mystery" that each of us makes up "the household of God." We are a part of the divine family of God that controls and governs the entirety of this universe. Our destiny (even before the creation of Adam) has been to become the very children of God! And each of us will perform that role because of the works of Christ on our behalf. We have been saved "in Christ" from before the foundation of the physical cosmos (II Timothy 1:9). And though the Father kept the understanding of this divine truth a secret from the beginning of the world, He saw fit to give that knowledge to the world in A.D.63 through His apostles.

Glad I could help...
Paul

 

[pierac]

You? Waiting for the Master teacher

Well thanks so much for your kindness...that sure is encouraging
I'll have to read this later after I let go of your comments....

I accept your apology...

It takes a REAL man .. to accept the spiritual spanking you ... just recieved... Your Welcome!!!

Stop crying...and know the truth... as anyone can see...

 

[Hopeful]

Our body is the temple, our spirit is the dwelling place of the Spirit.

Seeing as our spirit is in our body, it is pointless to separate the one from the other.

Sanctification is the process by which we are becoming holy, becoming transformed by the renewing process of our mind.

I call it water baptism, wherein the sanctifying blood of Christ is applied to our dying bodies.

We still have the same physical body we were born with.

That idea runs counter to Jesus' words in Mark 2:22..."And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles."
The new Spirit is put into a new vessel...our new body which has been reborn of God's seed.

We will receive a new resurrected body at His coming.
Not until then.

Agreed, but the bodies of the holy are sanctified:, consecrated, set apart, and atoned for, until their passing.

 

[Hopeful]

Symbolically, it was because that is what we are agreeing to when we are baptized in water, to publicly profess our commitment to be crucified to this world.

Got a scripture for that?
Why go with symbolism when reality is so much better.

We walk this commitment out each and every day by the power of the Holy Spirit.
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:1

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:1

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. Romans 6:12-13
Thank God we have the scriptures to teach us the truth, to help and instruct us to live a life of victory that comes from the power of the Holy Spirit who leads us daily in crucifying our flesh, something that natural water can never do
Take up our cross daily.

Why can't the Spirit use "natural water" for the killing of the old man...like Paul said it would in Rom 6:6?
"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

 

[Cnkw3]

When the Father looks over to His right and sees Christ sitting there beside Him as His own firstborn of all creation, the Father also sees each of us (in a very personal way) legally sitting there with Him. That is what the teaching of "The Mystery" is all about. The Father has no second born children. He only has firstborn! Each of us (and soon the whole human race once they are redeemed) will be sitting in that same firstborn position "in Christ" in the very family of the living God!

So the whole human race will be redeemed? This word means...to buy back which ultimately means saved. So the whole human race will be saved?

 

[Hopeful]

Christ is in us the hope of Glory, But God is in Christ. That is where the Picture of the tabernacle may be helpful.
Seeing that we want the whole body, soul, and Spirit preserved the day of the Lord.
So here is the passage I was referring to when I said it's about getting heaven in you now......For the contrast was...it's not
just about heaven when you die, vs. heaven in you now; speaking of the father and son coming in to make their abode with us...if we keep the commands.(teachings,words)
Another words as we live by the Spirit our hearts are changed, and in making the heart good, then what's in the heart come out of the mouth(meaning our deeds will be good too) ...when what we say and do add up...that's what I am referring to.

Scripture reference:
1 Thess 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 14
23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24Whoever does not love Me does not keep My words. The word that you hear is not My own, but it is from the Father who sent Me.

I see no mention of heaven in your scripture.
But I do agree that with God and His Son in us now, we are pretty close to being in heaven...or...heaven being in us.
It is just more "ammunition" to use in the fight against temptation.
Thanks.

 

[JLB]

Seeing as our spirit is in our body, it is pointless to separate the one from the other.

I'm sorry you don't approve of God's plan of salvation.

Nevertheless whether you approve or not, you still have the same physical body you had when you were born.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12




JLB

 

[pierac]

So the whole human race will be redeemed? This word means...to buy back which ultimately means saved. So the whole human race will be saved?

I don't know... You tell me... Is God Love???

Get ready....
NASB 2 Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

CEV 2Th 2:13 My friends, the Lord loves you, and it is only natural for us to thank God for you. God chose you to be the first ones to be saved. His Spirit made you holy, and you put your faith in the truth.

NASB 2Ti 2:10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory.

OR... it could be the Opposite...
NASB 1Pe 2:8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed. 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

CEV 1Pe 2:8 They disobeyed the message and stumbled and fell over that stone,because they were doomed. 9 But you are God's chosen and special people. You are a group of royal priests and a holy nation. God has brought you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Now you must tell all the wonderful things that he has done. The Scriptures say, 10 "Once you were nobody. Now you are God's people. At one time no one had pity on you. Now God has treated you with kindness.

Or not?
NASB Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. 31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?

CEV Rom 8:28 We know that God is always at work for the good of everyone who loves him. They are the ones God has chosen for his purpose, 29 and he has always known who his chosen ones would be. He had decided to let them become like his own Son, so that his Son would be the first of many children. 30 God then accepted the people he had already decided to choose, and he has shared his glory with them. 31 What can we say about all this? If God is on our side, can anyone be against us?

What... Do You see...
Rom 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

1Jo 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Propitiation

1. The act of appeasing wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person; the act of making propitious.

2. In theology, the atonement or atoning sacrifice offered to God to assuage his wrath and render him propitious to sinners. Christ is the propitiation for the sins of men. Rom 3. 1 John 2.

Do you see what I see?? LOL

Paul

 

[JLB]

Got a scripture for that?
Why go with symbolism when reality is so much better.

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection.
Romans 6:5


The reality will be when we are resurrected and receive sinless bodies that will never die. So yes the reality of actually receiving an immortal body that will never die, is better than water baptism.


I'm glad we can agree.



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

I'm sorry you don't approve of God's plan of salvation.

I approve of it whole heartedly.

Nevertheless whether you approve or not, you still have the same physical body you had when you were born.

It is a new body gendered by the seed of God.
It has been quickened by the Holy Spirit and deemed fit for use as the temple of God.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

That is right.
Just because the new vessel is still temporary, doesn't mean we can turn it over to sin.

 

[Hopeful]

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection.
Romans 6:5

The miswording of your citing notwithstanding..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"...

The reality will be when we are resurrected and receive sinless bodies that will never die. So yes the reality of actually receiving an immortal body that will never die, is better than water baptism.

The "reality" occurred when we were "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)
And your conclusion makes no sense.
It is like comparing apples and oranges.

I'm glad we can agree.

I am glad there is hope of that.