What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[Runmyramble]

I accept your apology...

It takes a REAL man .. to accept the spiritual spanking you ... just recieved... Your Welcome!!!

Stop crying...and know the truth... as anyone can see...

Thanks to the ignore button [click]

 

[JLB]

It is a new body gendered by the seed of God.
It has been quickened by the Holy Spirit and deemed fit for use as the temple of God.

Please post the scripture that says our physical body is born again by the Spirit, as you have claimed.

I see what your opinion is, now please pist scripture.

 

[JLB]

The miswording of your citing notwithstanding..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"...

I cited scripture, plain and simple.


For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, Romans 6:5


In the same context Paul goes on to say in verse 12 --


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.






JLB

 

[JLB]

Your thread talks about Baptism... But is lacking in your post??? What gives???

Now.... Back to your topic which you failed to address.... "What is The Baptism that saves us now?"​

We now come to an important aspect of the teaching of "the Mystery." When did we first obtain all our spiritual blessings "in Christ"? Paul said: "According as he [God] hath chosen us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians 1:4). Our being "in Christ" was made legal in the eyes of the Father even before the physical cosmos which we see around us came into existence. We were then given the legal status of being reckoned as the very children of God Himself. "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of His will" (Ephesians 1:5). This divine position of being accounted as God’s own children was accomplished by Christ "according to the good pleasure of His will" -- not by our own wills. Indeed, we didn’t even exist at the time. But so certain was this divine status assured to us, that the apostle Paul even deemed that each of us was already saved in Christ long before Adam was ever created. "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ before the world began" (II Timothy 1:9). We were considered to be in Christ even at that distant time in the past. But it doesn’t end there.

When Christ came into this world and became a human baby we were also reckoned by the Father to have been "in Christ" at that time too. How can we know this? Because eight days after Christ’s birth he was circumcised in the Temple at Jerusalem. And what does Paul say of this act as far as our legal relationship to Christ was concerned? "In whom [in Christ] also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ" (Colossians 2:1). In other words, when Christ was circumcised as a baby of eight days, you and I (male or female makes no difference for this is a religious and legal principle being discussed) were also circumcised in the eyes of the Father at the same time! But it doesn’t end there.

We continued in a legal sense to be "in Christ" for about thirty years -- until the time of His baptism by John the Baptist. And then what happened according to Paul? That is when each of us was unitedly "buried with him in baptism" (Colossians 2:12). The truth is, Paul was telling the Colossians (and all of us) that when John the Baptist was baptizing Christ for sins, it was not Christ’s sins that were being washed away (because He had none personally). It was our sins that were legally being washed away. Since we were then "in Christ," we were vicariously accounted by the Father as being baptized when John baptized Christ. This means that legally each of you has been baptized in the River Jordan by no less than John the Baptist himself! This is the "one baptism" that now counts in your salvation (Ephesians 4:5), not the one (or ones) performed on you by some other humans here on earth. But it doesn’t end there.

When Christ died on the tree of crucifixion, you were still "in Christ" at that time too. Paul said even before the teaching of "the Mystery" that "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me" (Galatians 2:20). This means that when Christ died by crucifixion, the Father reckons that you died with Him because you were "in Christ" at the time. But it doesn’t end there.

When Christ was risen from the dead three days later, you were also risen up with Him! As Paul taught: "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Colossians 3:1). That’s right! When Christ was risen from the dead, the Father legally reckoned that you also were risen from the dead at the same time. Not only that, since after death all people are destined to be resurrected and go to the judgment (Hebrews 9:27,28), so likewise Christ went through a judgment after His death (as all humans must do), and He passed through triumphantly. And what did the Father do with Christ after He passed His judgment with no sins on His records (only perfect obedience was recorded)? The Father told Christ to come forward and sit on His right hand.

While this was all fine with Christ, what about you and me? What is wonderful is the teaching of "the Mystery" that you and I were also "in Christ" even at that time. In the eyes of the Father each of us went triumphantly with Christ through the judgment and sat down with Him on the right hand of the Father Himself That’s right, you and I are still "in Christ" and we are presently sitting (and I mean in a legal sense right at this very moment) on that very throne in heaven. Paul said: God "hath quickened us together [made us alive together] with Christ (by grace are ye saved), and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:5,6). We are considered to be in heaven "where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God" (Colossians 3:1). We have passed our judgment with Him and are legally sitting in Him and He in us at the right hand of the Father!

When the Father looks over to His right and sees Christ sitting there beside Him as His own firstborn of all creation, the Father also sees each of us (in a very personal way) legally sitting there with Him. That is what the teaching of "The Mystery" is all about. The Father has no second born children. He only has firstborn! Each of us (and soon the whole human race once they are redeemed) will be sitting in that same firstborn position "in Christ" in the very family of the living God! That’s why Paul said in the teaching of "the Mystery" that each of us makes up "the household of God." We are a part of the divine family of God that controls and governs the entirety of this universe. Our destiny (even before the creation of Adam) has been to become the very children of God! And each of us will perform that role because of the works of Christ on our behalf. We have been saved "in Christ" from before the foundation of the physical cosmos (II Timothy 1:9). And though the Father kept the understanding of this divine truth a secret from the beginning of the world, He saw fit to give that knowledge to the world in A.D.63 through His apostles.

Glad I could help...
Paul

This is the baptism by which we are saved, joined to Christ whereby we are one spirit with Him, having been baptized into Christ by the Spirit.


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13


This is the first of three different baptizms, done by three different baptisers.

All of which are uniquely important... if our motive is to obey Jesus Christ as our Lord.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9



JLB

 

[Runmyramble]

This is the baptism by which we are saved, joined to Christ whereby we are one spirit with Him, having been baptized into Christ by the Spirit.


For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13


This is the first of three different baptizms, done by three different baptisers.

All of which are uniquely important... if our motive is to obey Jesus Christ as our Lord.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9



JLB

Would you say that when one is Baptized into Christ that that is when they are quickened with the Spirit, born from above? Yes or no

 

[Cnkw3]

I don't know... You tell me... Is God Love???

Get ready....
NASB 2 Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

CEV 2Th 2:13 My friends, the Lord loves you, and it is only natural for us to thank God for you. God chose you to be the first ones to be saved. His Spirit made you holy, and you put your faith in the truth.

NASB 2Ti 2:10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory.

OR... it could be the Opposite...
NASB 1Pe 2:8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed. 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

CEV 1Pe 2:8 They disobeyed the message and stumbled and fell over that stone,because they were doomed. 9 But you are God's chosen and special people. You are a group of royal priests and a holy nation. God has brought you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Now you must tell all the wonderful things that he has done. The Scriptures say, 10 "Once you were nobody. Now you are God's people. At one time no one had pity on you. Now God has treated you with kindness.

Or not?
NASB Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. 31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?

CEV Rom 8:28 We know that God is always at work for the good of everyone who loves him. They are the ones God has chosen for his purpose, 29 and he has always known who his chosen ones would be. He had decided to let them become like his own Son, so that his Son would be the first of many children. 30 God then accepted the people he had already decided to choose, and he has shared his glory with them. 31 What can we say about all this? If God is on our side, can anyone be against us?

What... Do You see...
Rom 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

1Jo 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Propitiation

1. The act of appeasing wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person; the act of making propitious.

2. In theology, the atonement or atoning sacrifice offered to God to assuage his wrath and render him propitious to sinners. Christ is the propitiation for the sins of men. Rom 3. 1 John 2.

Do you see what I see?? LOL

Paul

No I don’t think I do.
All these “chosen” passages you use were written to Christians. People that had obeyed the gospel. He’s not writing to the whole world.

 

[Hopeful]

Please post the scripture that says our physical body is born again by the Spirit, as you have claimed.

I see what your opinion is, now please list scripture.

Happy to, as it is one you like...
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)
As my second birth was of the Spirit, God's seed, it necessitated the removal of the prior fleshly me.
That is accomplished at our baptism into Christ and into His death.
Thanks be to God.
My favorite scripture pronouncing a new creature is..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
Jesus' best reference to it is..."And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles." (Mark 2:22)
I am a new "bottle".

 

[Hopeful]

I cited scripture, plain and simple.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, Romans 6:5
In the same context Paul goes on to say in verse 12 --
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Is there a new question there?

 

[JLB]

Would you say that when one is Baptized into Christ that that is when they are quickened with the Spirit, born from above? Yes or no

No. "Quickened" by the Spirit refers to the resurrection.

"Quickened" means made alive.


But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:11 KJV


But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Romans 8:11 NKJV



JLB

 

[JLB]

Happy to, as it is one you like...
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)

Yes the Spirit gives birth to our spirit. There our spirit is born of the Spirit.


Your claim is our physical body, our flesh is born of the Spirit.


Please post the scripture that validates your claim of our flesh being born of the Spirit.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Is there a new question there?

No question, just a statement of the truth.


Paul plainly exhorts the Church, specifically baptized Christians, ... do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.


So much for your "sinless perfection" doctrine.




JLB

 

[Runmyramble]

No. "Quickened" by the Spirit refers to the resurrection.

"Quickened" means made alive.


But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:11 KJV


But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Romans 8:11 NKJV



JLB

Yes but those passages are not about our Spirit being quickened.....

No. "Quickened" by the Spirit refers to the resurrection.

"Quickened" means made alive.


But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:11 KJV


But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Romans 8:11 NKJV



JLB

I see you have scripture about quickening the Body, but I am thinking of the quicking of our spirit.

"The body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness”, because or on the account of sin, the body of mankind who has already accepted Christ in them, has become the [body of death] Romans 7:24 his spirit is quickened because of being justified by believing Christ Romans5:18. Therefore, is he not "a man of spirit."

¬d¸g¸ê®Æ¤j¥þ

 

[Hopeful]

Yes the Spirit gives birth to our spirit. There (sic) our spirit is born of the Spirit.

Did the flesh give birth to our original spirit?

Your claim is our physical body, our flesh is born of the Spirit.

The new creature's flesh has been reborn from the seed of God.
Is God "flesh"?
Can He not do any thing He wants...including regenerating a man?

Please post the scripture that validates your claim of our flesh being born of the Spirit.

Happily...
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)
My first birth was of the flesh, but my second birth was of the Spirit, God's seed, and it necessitated the removal of the prior fleshly me.
That is accomplished at our baptism into Christ and into His death.
Thanks be to God.

My favorite scripture pronouncing a new creature is..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." (James 1:18)

Jesus' best reference to it is..."And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles." (Mark 2:22)
I am a new "bottle", with new "wine" inside.
Thanks be to God.

 

[Hopeful]

No question, just a statement of the truth.
Paul plainly exhorts the Church, specifically baptized Christians, ... do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
So much for your "sinless perfection" doctrine.

Why do you assume everyone will disobey not only God, but Paul too?
Some do love God with all their heart, strength, and will.

 

[jaybo]

No question, just a statement of the truth.


Paul plainly exhorts the Church, specifically baptized Christians, ... do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.


So much for your "sinless perfection" doctrine.




JLB

It always helps to quote Scripture in context. Here is the section from which you lifted your quote (with my emphasis)...

"So you too consider yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires, and do not present your members to sin as instruments to be used for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead and your members to God as instruments to be used for righteousness." Romans 6:11-13, NET

Clearly Paul was addressing Christians who have been "born again" and should therefore regard themselves as living with a new nature that has power over sin.

 

[Runmyramble]

Yes but those passages are not about our Spirit being quickened.....

I see you have scripture about quickening the Body, but I am thinking of the quicking of our spirit.

"The body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness”, because or on the account of sin, the body of mankind who has already accepted Christ in them, has become the [body of death] Romans 7:24 his spirit is quickened because of being justified by believing Christ Romans5:18. Therefore, is he not "a man of spirit."

¬d¸g¸ê®Æ¤j¥þ

...

Did the flesh give birth to our original spirit?

The new creature's flesh has been reborn from the seed of God.
Is God "flesh"?
Can He not do any thing He wants...including regenerating a man?

Happily...
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)
My first birth was of the flesh, but my second birth was of the Spirit, God's seed, and it necessitated the removal of the prior fleshly me.
That is accomplished at our baptism into Christ and into His death.
Thanks be to God.

My favorite scripture pronouncing a new creature is..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." (James 1:18)

Jesus' best reference to it is..."And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles." (Mark 2:22)
I am a new "bottle", with new "wine" inside.
Thanks be to God.

I think I know where He is coming from
Hopeful . I think it was another person and Him in another thread saying that we were not born with a spirit..So correct me if I'm wrong JLB . Therefore what I think He is saying is in the scripture: "flesh gives birth to flesh" that is what is man gives birth to mankind. Another words man produce flesh.

And a person then is Given a spirit by the Spirit...
Which is a good study I must say...because spirit can take on other meanings...like heart and such. Not saying I agree because I've yet to study the meaning in all the contextes.

And also Man was created in the image of God.. (past tense) Somethings are not always made from nothing. Somethings are caused to be desolate made empty;without meaning. Yet they are being formed out of what already exist;the desolation itself.

How did Adam relate to God before the fall? GOD IS SPIRIT AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH?

Ps.
The earth was said to have no form...or was in ruin or desolate. And it was formed out of what existed?

What changed when Adam ate off the tree? What happened to spirit if He had one?? For one, He obeyed the spirit of satan (the word of satan) and that which you obey you become a slave to.
What did He obey with?

Yet and stll it is written to give us a new heart and put His Spirit within us...

Roman's 8v10 translates 2 ways..
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

The other is With Big 'S" for The Spirit...as the Spirit is your life because of righteousness....don't quote me..look it up...

 

[Runmyramble]

...

I think I know where He is coming from
Hopeful . I think it was another person and Him in another thread saying that we were not born with a spirit..So correct me if I'm wrong JLB . Therefore what I think He is saying is in the scripture: "flesh gives birth to flesh" that is what is man gives birth to mankind. Another words man produce flesh.

And a person then is Given a spirit by the Spirit...
Which is a good study I must say...because spirit can take on other meanings...like heart and such. Not saying I agree because I've yet to study the meaning in all the contextes.

And also Man was created in the image of God.. (past tense) Somethings are not always made from nothing. Somethings are caused to be desolate made empty;without meaning. Yet they are being formed out of what already exist;the desolation itself.

How did Adam relate to God before the fall? GOD IS SPIRIT AND THEY THAT WORSHIP HIM MUST WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH?

Ps.
The earth was said to have no form...or was in ruin or desolate. And it was formed out of what existed?

What changed when Adam ate off the tree? What happened to spirit if He had one?? For one, He obeyed the spirit of satan (the word of satan) and that which you obey you become a slave to.
What did He obey with?

Yet and stll it is written to give us a new heart and put His Spirit within us...

Roman's 8v10 translates 2 ways..
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

The other is With Big 'S" for The Spirit...as the Spirit is your life because of righteousness....don't quote me..look it up...

Here is a scripture with both:
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.

Now How does Flesh give birth to flesh...

I know 2 ways...one, God formed men from the dust of ground.

2nd, man and woman giving birth...to flesh

And maybe a third, Genetically using what already exist to clone....

Who birthed mankind...Did God create man without a spirit or did man's spirit need to be formed?

This will be a fun study and meditation for another thread...

 

[Runmyramble]

Here is a scripture with both:
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.

Now How does Flesh give birth to flesh...

I know 2 ways...one, God formed men from the dust of ground.

2nd, man and woman giving birth...to flesh

And maybe a third, Genetically using what already exist to clone....

Who birthed mankind...Did God create man without a spirit or did man's spirit need to be formed?

This will be a fun study and meditation for another thread...

Well one of my favorite Authors outside of Cornell West is Dallas Willard. Philosopher &Theologian...And in His book Renovation of heart on page 13 He states that, "

The human spirit is an inescapable, fundamental aspect of every human being and it takes on whichever character it has from the experiences and the choices that we have lived through or made in our past that is what it means for it to be "formed."

He also States: "our life and how we find the world now and in the future is almost totally a simple result of what we have become in the depths of our being and our spirit, will, or heart from there we see our world and interpret reality from there we will make our choices. Break forth into action, try to change our world we live from our depths most of which we do not understand"

On page 14 he stated, " accordingly, the greatest need you and I have- the greatest need of collective humanity- is renovation of our heart. That spiritual place within us from which outlook, choices, and actions come has been formed by a world away from God. Now it must be transformed."

 

[Runmyramble]

Well one of my favorite Authors outside of Cornell West is Dallas Willard. Philosopher &Theologian...And in His book Renovation of heart on page 13 He states that, "

The human spirit is an inescapable, fundamental aspect of every human being and it takes on whichever character it has from the experiences and the choices that we have lived through or made in our past that is what it means for it to be "formed."

He also States: "our life and how we find the world now and in the future is almost totally a simple result of what we have become in the depths of our being and our spirit, will, or heart from there we see our world and interpret reality from there we will make our choices. Break forth into action, try to change our world we live from our depths most of which we do not understand"

On page 14 he stated, " accordingly, the greatest need you and I have- the greatest need of collective humanity- is renovation of our heart. That spiritual place within us from which outlook, choices, and actions come has been formed by a world away from God. Now it must be transformed."

Another note when it comes to "Spirit gives Birth to Spirit" is in how this possibly could be. This is why I asked my question about being in Christ and therefore is that when one's Spirit is quickened. Because, Two Spirits, ours and Christ make a new Spirit.
Just as a man and woman make a child of the flesh....Just a thought ...

How is it man and woman become one is said to be mystery right? Of Christ and the Church...

 

[Hopeful]

I think I know where He is coming fromHopeful . I think it was another person and Him in another thread saying that we were not born with a spirit. So correct me if I'm wrong JLB . Therefore what I think He is saying is in the scripture: "flesh gives birth to flesh" that is what is man gives birth to mankind. Another words man produce flesh.

JBL and my difference of opinion is this...JBL doesn't think the skin and bones are reborn when we are reborn of Go's seed.
I say they are reborn.
All of the new creature is new...As it is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
JBL sees..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new...except the skin and bones."