What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[JLB]

Yes but those passages are not about our Spirit being quickened.....

This passage is about our mortal body, being “made alive” or being “clothed with immortality“ at His coming; at the resurrection of the dead in Christ.


If we are “in Christ” and are joined to Him, being one spirit with Him, then we (our spirit) certainly is seated with Him in heavenly places, at the right hand of God.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places
in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:4-6

Having been raised with Him.

If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Colossians 3:1




JLB

 

[JLB]

It always helps to quote Scripture in context. Here is the section from which you lifted your quote (with my emphasis)...

"So you too consider yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires, and do not present your members to sin as instruments to be used for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead and your members to God as instruments to be used for righteousness." Romans 6:11-13, NET

Clearly Paul was addressing Christians who have been "born again" and should therefore regard themselves as living with a new nature that has power over sin.

Do you believe a born again Christian who does happen to sin, was never truly born again?


Do you believe if a born again Christian does sin, that they can confess there sin and be forgiven, or do you like Hopeful, believe they were never born again; never truly saved?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Why do you assume everyone will disobey not only God, but Paul too?
Some do love God with all their heart, strength, and will.

I assume nothing.

I only post the scriptures that teach us the truth.

In this case, the truth shows us that Paul, exhorted baptized Christians to not let sin in their body reign and rule over them.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Romans 6:12-13

We have the Holy Spirit in our spirit, and have the power to live in dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh.

This power enables us to present the members of our physical body as members of righteousness rather than fulfilling the sinful desires of our flesh.

It's up to each person to choose whether to obey or not.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Why do you assume everyone will disobey not only God, but Paul too?
Some do love God with all their heart, strength, and will.

I assume nothing.

I only post the scriptures that teach us the truth.

In this case, the truth shows us that Paul, exhorted baptized Christians to not let sin in their body reign and rule over them.

this...JBL doesn't think the skin and bones are reborn when we are reborn of Go's seed.
I say they are reborn.

No where in scripture do we find that The Spirit gives birth to our flesh; our physical body.

We have the same physical body we were born with.

We will receive a new immortal body at the resurrection, that will never die again.



JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

I was trying to find scripture in 1 Peter 3 that has the saving relevance.

Towards the end of the chapter it talks about Noah and only a few people were saved because of the ark. Then it relates that to Jesus and his body (ark of the covenant) John 20:12

What you believe about Jesus and his body seals your conscience. Meaning, days of Noah there were people who obviously didn't believe what was coming.......those people perished.

Today we have God saying Matthew 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Get on the ark and be raised with Christ to sit in heavenly realms with him.

 

[Runmyramble]

JBL and my difference of opinion is this...JBL doesn't think the skin and bones are reborn when we are reborn of Go's seed.
I say they are reborn.

You say they are reborn because "the new creature is new"

All of the new creature is new...As it is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

But what is the new that has come from context?

And don't get me wrong I'm learning and asking myself...

Well we are no longer to identify any longer to man after the flesh. We were all under sin.....

JBL sees..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new...except the skin and bones."

What are the old things....? Old relationships..."identifying with Adam the world system" McGee

"Now we Identify with Christ. "

"We have now been Baptized into the body of believers. "Mcgee

"The new things now had a new relationship to Jesus Christ" Vernon M.

 

[Hopeful]

I assume nothing.
I only post the scriptures that teach us the truth.
In this case, the truth shows us that Paul, exhorted baptized Christians to not let sin in their body reign and rule over them.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
Romans 6:12-13

Those whose repentance from sin is true, obey.

We have the Holy Spirit in our spirit, and have the power to live in dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh.

If we don't commit sin, how can there be sin in our skin and bones?

This power enables us to present the members of our physical body as members of righteousness rather than fulfilling the sinful desires of our flesh.
It's up to each person to choose whether to obey or not.

So true, and with God's help is completely possible.
I like this scripture..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Sin can't exist where the "flesh" has been killed.

 

[Hopeful]

I assume nothing.

I only post the scriptures that teach us the truth.

In this case, the truth shows us that Paul, exhorted baptized Christians to not let sin in their body reign and rule over them.


No where in scripture do we find that The Spirit gives birth to our flesh; our physical body.

We have the same physical body we were born with.

We will receive a new immortal body at the resurrection, that will never die again.

That POV doesn't fit with 2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
And yes, we will receive a new vessel at our resurrection on the final day.

 

[Hopeful]

I was trying to find scripture in 1 Peter 3 that has the saving relevance.

Towards the end of the chapter it talks about Noah and only a few people were saved because of the ark. Then it relates that to Jesus and his body (ark of the covenant) John 20:12

What you believe about Jesus and his body seals your conscience. Meaning, days of Noah there were people who obviously didn't believe what was coming.......those people perished.

Today we have God saying Matthew 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Get on the ark and be raised with Christ to sit in heavenly realms with him.

The "saving reference" is 1 Peter 3:21.
It is the scripture that compelled me to get water baptized and become a Christian.
I wanted that "good conscience towards God" more than anything on earth !

Water baptism is the baptism by which we are saved, as per the OP.
It is the first step after our "turn from" sin.

 

[Hopeful]

You say they are reborn because "the new creature is new"

Doesn't that make sense?
If one part of the old man remained, he would NOT be a NEW creature.

But what is the new that has come from context?

Can you elaborate?

And don't get me wrong I'm learning and asking myself...
Well we are no longer to identify any longer to man after the flesh. We were all under sin.....

We no longer ARE the man of the flesh who was "under sin".
We no longer walk in the flesh or after the flesh.
We walk in the Spirit and after the Spirit.

What are the old things....? Old relationships..."identifying with Adam the world system" McG
"Now we Identify with Christ. "
"We have now been Baptized into the body of believers. "Mcgee

We have been baptized into Christ, (Rom 6:3), and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:4-6)

"The new things now had a new relationship to Jesus Christ" Vernon M.

The old creature had no relationship with Jesus Christ.
The new creature does, thanks be to God.

 

[Runmyramble]

Doesn't that make sense?
If one part of the old man remained, he would NOT be a NEW creature.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently.

In my opinion Hopeful
We get a taste of what will be, when we live like what will be.

The Spirit is the down payment, and yes when we live by it we get a foretaste of what is coming later.

The key to me is to live like the Kingdom that is coming.

So if we come under His rule now on earth..
I see the passage His kingdom come, His will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..

Therefore what to me is going on...Is as we are in these bodies on earth...We live as resurrected ones when we live in terms of the Spirit...

Therefore "if" we put away the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit we have life(zoe).

The Bible says be careful that we think we stand or we may fall....

In my opinion one can past from death to life many times...because we are growing and thanks be to God who gave us Jesus who lives forever to INTERCEED on the behalf of those who come to Him.(I could be wrong)



If you can say that you will never sin again...and you know this...Then you don't need Jesus....But "if" you sin you have an advocate with the father; Christ Jesus.

The outer man is what is seen...and it is perishing....If it were already a new creation would it Perish?

But in the Outterman we can learn how relate to God and have fellowship by the Spirit.
2 Cor 4:16
Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

1 Corinthians 10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

I already suggested Vernon's thoughts...that is? what is the new? What we relate to now...

If it helps start His video in the middle..but best to listen to whole thing.

 

[Runmyramble]

Doesn't that make sense?
If one part of the old man remained, he would NOT be a NEW creature.

Can you elaborate?

We no longer ARE the man of the flesh who was "under sin".
We no longer walk in the flesh or after the flesh.
We walk in the Spirit and after the Spirit.

We have been baptized into Christ, (Rom 6:3), and into His death and burial. (Rom 6:4-6)

The old creature had no relationship with Jesus Christ.
The new creature does, thanks be to God.

By the way thanks for the questions...because I am so learning through all this...so exciting

 

[Runmyramble]

Colossians 2:12

Romans 6:5

We were not Christ ....No one could have ever done what He did....He is the first fruits.....God is so amazing..Help me Father to meditate on you to surrender my life fully....amen

Note to self: Yet He makes His ministers flames of fire...

 

[JLB]

Those whose repentance from sin is true, obey.

If we don't commit sin, how can there be sin in our skin and bones?

So true, and with God's help is completely possible.
I like this scripture..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Sin can't exist where the "flesh" has been killed.

Please, I have asked you several times now...

Please just post the scripture that says our physical body is born again "sinless" when we are born again by the Spirit.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

Our spirit was born of the Spirit, not our flesh.


Your misunderstanding and therefore misapplication of this plain and clear scripture is the foundation your "house of false doctrine is built upon".

Our flesh being born again and sinless is not from Christ.



JLB

 

[JLB]

That POV doesn't fit with 2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
And yes, we will receive a new vessel at our resurrection on the final day.

Please, I have asked you several times now...

Please just post the scripture that says our physical body is born again "sinless" when we are born again by the Spirit.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

Our spirit was born of the Spirit, not our flesh.


Your misunderstanding and therefore misapplication of this plain and clear scripture is the foundation your "house of false doctrine is built upon".

Our flesh being born again and sinless is not from Christ.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Your doctrine seeks to lead people away from Christ.



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently.

Your verse 24 of Rom 8 is skewed.
It should read..."For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
And yes, we get a new vessel on the day of Christ's return.

In my opinion Hopeful
We get a taste of what will be, when we live like what will be.
The Spirit is the down payment, and yes when we live by it we get a foretaste of what is coming later.

I agree.

The key to me is to live like the Kingdom that is coming.

Live like the kingdom is here now, as you are in it already. (If you are in Christ)

So if we come under His rule now on earth..
I see the passage His kingdom come, His will be done, on earth as it is in heaven..

Happening in front of your eyes !

Therefore what to me is going on...Is as we are in these bodies on earth...We live as resurrected ones when we live in terms of the Spirit...

The vessel is nothing.
It is the mind that makes all the difference.
Have the mind of Christ and live a regenerated life now.

Therefore "if" we put away the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit we have life(zoe).

Yep !

The Bible says be careful that we think we stand or we may fall....

Yep !

In my opinion one can past from death to life many times...because we are growing and thanks be to God who gave us Jesus who lives forever to INTERCEED on the behalf of those who come to Him.(I could be wrong)

Nope !
If you leave one life behind, and start the new life in Christ, there is no going back.
As Jesus said..."And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62)

If you can say that you will never sin again...and you know this...Then you don't need Jesus....

Au contraire.
I need Him more than ever.
Are you just using Jesus to bail you out of sin every other day or once every year?
That kind of Person doesn't have any idea about the Lord...the Lord he is abandoning daily or yearly.
"No man can serve two masters", as Jesus said in Matt 6:24.
"He will hate the one and love the other", Jesus added.
Sinners hate God !

But "if" you sin you have an advocate with the father; Christ Jesus.

If you sin, you have an advocate, but after the Advocate has made you a new creature there is no need of the advocacy of Christ for sins.
You have stopped sinning...if you have repented of sin and been washed of past sins by the blood of the Advocate, and been reborn of God's seed.

The outer man is what is seen...and it is perishing....If it were already a new creation would it Perish?

Why not?
It is just a vessel for this time.

But in the Outterman we can learn how relate to God and have fellowship by the Spirit.
2 Cor 4:16
Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day.

Yep, the outer man ages and deteriorates as life goes on.
But it is all we have with which to glorify God on earth now.

1 Corinthians 10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

Sinners abide in death.
With the advocacy of the Lord we can start walking in the light.
There is no sin in the light.

 

[Hopeful]

Colossians 2:12

Romans 6:5

We were not Christ ....No one could have ever done what He did....He is the first fruits.....God is so amazing..Help me Father to meditate on you to surrender my life fully....amen

Note to self: Yet He makes His ministers flames of fire...

That "flames of fire" bit is about the angels.
Heb 1:7..."And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."
I am certain this is in reference to the angels who return with Christ on the last day to burn the earth.
It is written..."And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" (2 Thes 1:7-9)

 

[Hopeful]

Please, I have asked you several times now...
Please just post the scripture that says our physical body is born again "sinless" when we are born again by the Spirit.

Again, happily !
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)
As my second birth was of the Spirit, God's seed, it necessitated the removal of the prior fleshly me.
That is accomplished at our baptism into Christ and into His death.
Thanks be to God.

My favorite scripture pronouncing a new creature is..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

Jesus' best reference to it is..."And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles." (Mark 2:22)
I am a new "bottle".

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

Our spirit was born of the Spirit, not our flesh.

My entire being was reborn of the Spirit.
That which WAS of the flesh is crucified and buried with Christ.

Your misunderstanding and therefore misapplication of this plain and clear scripture is the foundation your "house of false doctrine is built upon".
Our flesh being born again and sinless is not from Christ.

Despite the scriptural support of Gods life giving gifts?
You write like someone whose skin and bones controls their actions
Their flesh, instead of their spirit.
You have the gifts from God to change that.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Why don't you believe Paul?

JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Please, I have asked you several times now...
Please just post the scripture that says our physical body is born again "sinless" when we are born again by the Spirit.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
Our spirit was born of the Spirit, not our flesh.

None of the new me was born of the flesh.
All of the new me, a new creature, was born of the Spirit.

Your misunderstanding and therefore misapplication of this plain and clear scripture is the foundation your "house of false doctrine is built upon".
Our flesh being born again and sinless is not from Christ.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
Your doctrine seeks to lead people away from Christ.

It is written..."
"Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son." (2 John 1:9)
Would you agree with me that "transgresses" infers "sins"?
As my doctrine leads men to quit committing sin, I feel your take on it is wrong.

 

[Runmyramble]

Your verse 24 of Rom 8 is skewed.
It should read..."For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
And yes, we get a new vessel on the day of Christ's return.

I agree.

Live like the kingdom is here now, as you are in it already. (If you are in Christ)

Happening in front of your eyes !

The vessel is nothing.
It is the mind that makes all the difference.
Have the mind of Christ and live a regenerated life now.

Yep !

Yep !

Nope !
If you leave one life behind, and start the new life in Christ, there is no going back.
As Jesus said..."And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62)

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.

Being born into the family ....having a relationship....is not the same as having fellowship

Like you can be married and have a relationship....but never talk or have fellowship with them because she/he is cheating still....

The key is remaining in Christ is to remain/abide in His teaching.