What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[Hopeful]

So as long as you remain in Christ you are sinless...

That is a perfect synopsis of Christianity.

 

[Hopeful]

So here are my questionable thoughts:
We know a mind set on the Spirit is life and peace-so what does that look like?
It looks like intentional doing things that please God.

You got it !!!

My favorite scripture is when Jesus says: I always do what is pleasing to the father and my father never leaves me alone.

So we need to be about our father's business.

Awesome! Yeay argument over lol

"If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." (Gal 5:25)

 

[Runmyramble]

So when is Christ in you? My answer when you believe Who He is with intent to follow....

When are you in Christ? When you follow.

So what does that look like in terms of the aspects of Baptism ? And the baptism that saves us now in relation to 1 Peter 3?

Quickening by the Spirit
The Baptism that saves us now is being immersed into the presence of God, the holy trinity (life itself) for life produces life abiding characteristics...



When are we in the presence of God ? Do we have to wait to physically die when the kingdom is in our midst?

Or as is written if you love me you will obey my commands and the father and I will come in and make our abode with you.(don't quote me)

Here is a place where the term "Christ" may be given over to another meaning.

Why doesn't it say if any man be in Christ Jesus, or Jesus Christ?

Yet it is, if anyman be in Christ.
Kjv makes a diff in Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, and maybe just Christ....why? It gives meaning to what's happened or happening.

Accidently posted without thinking more into it...but I need to do some other things...

But let me go to the actual passage:
Matthew 28

And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

How are they suppose to baptize? (Immerse them in God's presence? )
Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you

So by immersing them in the teachings of Christ, by teaching them to do


Allow me to try out these thoughts

There's the "one Baptism" into the Trinity-the actions OF GOD(my thought)

so the Baptism that saves us now..(Jesus is no longer Jesus CHRIST, HE IS NOW Christ JESUS....HE IS BACK AT HIS RIGHTFUL PLACE...

SO BAPTIZE THEM IN THE NAME-(ACTIONS) OF THE FATHER, ACTIONS OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLYGHOST
It sounds like..as Christ was in the likeness of us, mankind

And He obeyed the Father..who is Holy and righteous
We too must obey the father through the obedience of Christ...He modeled-love
When we love we fullfill the law...the commandments are upheld and the Spirit of Christ in us has now become the Holyghost.

Note: so one does not call on the actions(name of the Lord) with their mouth but with their heart in deed and in truth.

The "body" I have is not mine anymore.
It is the vessel of the Holy Spirit.
Like Pau wrote in Gal 2:20..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
JLB thinks there is sin in the vessel of Christ.
I can't agree.

Lol..u shouldn't

 

[Runmyramble]

...

 

[Hopeful]

But let me go to the actual passage:
Matthew 28
And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

How are they suppose to baptize? (Immerse them in God's presence? )
Teach them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you
So by immersing them in the teachings of Christ, by teaching them to do

You went off the tracks.
Our initial baptism is done with water, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

Allow me to try out these thoughts
There's the "one Baptism" into the Trinity-the actions OF GOD(my thought)

Doesn't Rom 6:3 say we are baptized into Christ?
And into His death and burial? (Rom 6:3)
Thereby killing the old man of sin? (Rom 6:6)
This baptism is done with water by men.

so the Baptism that saves us now..(Jesus is no longer Jesus CHRIST, HE IS NOW Christ JESUS....HE IS BACK AT HIS RIGHTFUL PLACE...

There is no difference just because the order is reversed.

SO BAPTIZE THEM IN THE NAME-(ACTIONS) OF THE FATHER, ACTIONS OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLYGHOST
It sounds like..as Christ was in the likeness of us, mankind

Name and actions are two different things.
You are going down the wrong path.

And He obeyed the Father..who is Holy and righteous
We too must obey the father through the obedience of Christ...He modeled-love
When we love we fullfill the law...the commandments are upheld and the Spirit of Christ in us has now become the Holyghost.

The Spirit of Christ IS the Holy Ghost.

Note: so one does not call on the actions(name of the Lord) with their mouth but with their heart in deed and in truth.
Lol..u shouldn't

I don't know where you got all that but it is sure different than anything I have accepted.
Get baptized by men in the name of Jesus Christ, and you will receive from God the baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

 

[Runmyramble]

You went off the tracks.
Our initial baptism is done with water, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

Doesn't Rom 6:3 say we are baptized into Christ?
And into His death and burial? (Rom 6:3)
Thereby killing the old man of sin? (Rom 6:6)
This baptism is done with water by men.

There is no difference just because the order is reversed.

Name and actions are two different things.
You are going down the wrong path.

The Spirit of Christ IS the Holy Ghost.

I don't know where you got all that but it is sure different than anything I have accepted.
Get baptized by men in the name of Jesus Christ, and you will receive from God the baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

That post was an accident...
I deleted it...some times I write and have to test my thoughts I did not ...and I end up responding to another post...and forget I typed that...I thought I deleted it...
Everything I write is not meant for everyone nor even to post.at the time..
But for the sake of discussion not argument I will respond...

 

[Runmyramble]

.....

You went off the tracks.
Our initial baptism is done with water, in the name of Jesus Christ

I don't know about initial
but this part is possible seeing that
What He is saying is we are all under the same teaching

for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

Can't say I see this part the way you do..as we already know

Doesn't Rom 6:3 say we are baptized into Christ?
And into His death and burial? (Rom 6:3)
Thereby killing the old man of sin? (Rom 6:6)
This baptism is done with water by men.

It may ...

There is no difference just because the order is reversed.

That's your opinion, I have studied this and I believe there is.

Name and actions are two different things.
You are going down the wrong path.

That is your opinion...I'm not sure of that...for that's the way it came to me..I must test what came to me by the word.

The Spirit of Christ IS the Holy Ghost.

When Christ was on earth was He the Holy Ghost?
If you answer yes, and He has not yet risen... then you need to explain..

What I am saying is as we move in faith
It's like/as Christ moved ....meaning what happen to Him happens to us...

And again these were my thoughts that came up that needed to be tested and corrected by the standard of scripture..
So if they were not in alignment with scripture....scripture would make me have to throw out that thought.

I don't know where you got all that but it is sure different than anything I have accepted.
Get baptized by men in the name of Jesus Christ, and you will receive from God the baptism of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

I WAS BAPTIZED BY MAN...
AND HONESTLY NOTHING HAPPENED WHEN I WAS 17..

BUT LATER AS I SOUGHT THE LORD HE HEARD ME AND DELIVERED ME FROM ALL MY PRESENT SINS....AND THAT I'D NEVER FORGET. BECAUSE LIFE WAS WORTH LIVING AFTER THAT.

 

[Hopeful]

That post was an accident...
I deleted it...some times I write and have to test my thoughts I did not ...and I end up responding to another post...and forget I typed that...I thought I deleted it...
Everything I write is not meant for everyone nor even to post.at the time..
But for the sake of discussion not argument I will respond...

OK, thanks for the heads up.
Sometimes it is best to write an answer in a separate file, and then copy/paste it to the site here.
Have a good weekend.

I don't know about initial
but this part is possible seeing that
What He is saying is we are all under the same teaching

Can't say I see this part the way you do..as we already know

It may ...

That's your opinion, I have studied this and I believe there is.

That is your opinion...I'm not sure of that...for that's the way it came to me..I must test what came to me by the word.


When Christ was on earth was He the Holy Ghost?
If you answer yes, and He has not yet risen... then you need to explain..

What I am saying is as we move in faith
It's like/as Christ moved ....meaning what happen to Him happens to us...

And again these were my thoughts that came up that needed to be tested and corrected by the standard of scripture..
So if they were not in alignment with scripture....scripture would make me have to throw out that thought.

We don't see eye to eye.

I WAS BAPTIZED BY MAN...
AND HONESTLY NOTHING HAPPENED WHEN I WAS 17..

Your sins were not remitted? (Acts 2:38)
How could you tell?

BUT LATER AS I SOUGHT THE LORD HE HEARD ME AND DELIVERED ME FROM ALL MY PRESENT SINS....AND THAT I'D NEVER FORGET. BECAUSE LIFE WAS WORTH LIVING AFTER THAT.

Life without sin is like that.

 

[Runmyramble]

Surely you agree that in our mortal body refers to our physical body?

Question? Is the moral body without it's emotions and conscience?

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Our course doing things in the flesh can certainly refer to our own strength, however in this particular thread, we are discussing sin in our flesh, and refuting the idea that our physical body is born again.

If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Romans 7:16-23



JLB

 

[JLB]

Is the moral body without it's emotions and conscience?

I honestly don’t understand what you mean by “moral body”.


The way I see it, the physical body has a brain.


The human brain is the seat of intelligence of the human body.

The mind is the seat of intelligence of the human soul.

The heart is the seat of intelligence of the human spirit.


IOW, we have intellect that continues to function beyond the capacity of the physical body when the body dies, just as we have emotions that continue to function beyond the death of the body.

We also have eyes, and ears and a mouth, that function beyond the capacity of the physical body.



“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Luke 16:23-28

• The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The rich man had eyes, and recognized Abraham, though he had never met him. His physical body was buried, but his inner man was in hell.

• “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’

Though his physical body was buried, he himself was experiencing torment in the flame of fire in hell, and desired to have his thirst quenched with even a drop of water. He had a tongue, and Lazarus had fingers… though his physical body was buried.

• But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

Abraham, had supernatural understanding and knowledge about Lazarus and the rich man concerning their past life, even though he had never met either one. Lazarus had memories about his past life.

• Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’

The rich man had memories and emotional concern for his family, that they would not suffer the same fate as he.


All these attributes and more are contained in the soul and spirit of a person, in their inner man, beyond their physical body.



JLB

 

[Runmyramble]

1 Peter 3:21 is the scripture that convinced me, an ex-catholic, to get water baptized...so I could have a clear conscience by the resurrection of Christ.

Ok I am back for a .moment...Hope all is well with you.

I came home for some rest and was meditating...also read something on the subject

So to dwelve into the subject...

Is it our appeal to God
Or God's appeal to men?

Or rather

Is it our pledge(promise) for a clear conscience before God?

Meaning (we are making a promise)

Or God's promise to man for a clear conscience before Him?

This is for you too JLB

 

[Runmyramble]

Ok I am back for a .moment...Hope all is well with you.

I came home for some rest and was meditating...also read something on the subject

So to dwelve into the subject...

Is it our appeal to God
Or God's appeal to men?

Or rather

Is it our pledge(promise) for a clear conscience before God?

Meaning (we are making a promise)

Or God's promise to man for a clear conscience before Him?

This is for you too JLB

Did God ever Promise the Holy Spirit?

 

[Hopeful]

Ok I am back for a .moment...Hope all is well with you.

I am fine, thanks be to God.

I came home for some rest and was meditating...also read something on the subject
So to dwelve into the subject...

Water baptism?

Is it our appeal to God
Or God's appeal to men?

Please define "it".

Or rather
Is it our pledge(promise) for a clear conscience before God?
Meaning (we are making a promise)
Or God's promise to man for a clear conscience before Him?

If this is still about water baptism, our baptism, the cleansing of past sins, provides the clear conscience.
If our sins have been washed away by the blood of Christ, what is there remaining to offend our conscience?
Converts are to make restitution to those we have sinned against, but that is a fruit of conversion and rebirth.
But those sins are in the past now, and attributed to the old man of sin who was killed at water baptism. (Rom 6:6)

 

[Hopeful]

Did God ever Promise the Holy Spirit?

Yes.
Peter cites Joel 2:28-32 in Acts 2:17..."And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"
Jesus also promised it in Luke 11:13..."If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

 

[Runmyramble]

Did God ever Promise the Holy Spirit?

So I read both chapters

Let's try this out, if ya will

Good conscience before God...is God

A. Being quickened by the Spirit
1. Is the like figure
How is the quickening by the Spirit the like figure that Baptism now saves us

Definitely being made alive gives one a clear conscience before God...because they are no longer dead in sin.

But after being made alive one must continue to know they are alive.
So what is this Baptism....not into His death but immersed into His life, into the presence of God.

Can I fact check this?
But first let's asked this question can a figure be a reality that leads to another reality or does it need to be a symbol....that leads to a reality?




Figure-
A. a thing formed after some pattern
B. a thing resembling another, its counterpart
B.1 something in the Messianic times which answers to the type,
as baptism corresponds to the deluge

Ok the first line answers that...
So Jesus was Baptized into our death
So we can be Baptized into His Life
How through living by His Spirit.

That means that in order to have a clear conscience before God we need to remain in His love, His teachings, in Him,

He is not saving us from just being made alive...but saving us through being continually faithful whereby we come to the Throne of grace where we can find mercy in time of evil...As escaping from the evil that is around us...the anger and evil of men...

I added "come to the throne of grace" because I have a hard time seeing one come to the throneof grace without a good conscience before God...but that's another study...

But let's look at that passage in Hebrews to see if it fits...and then I am taking a break...remember I am trying these thoughts out....

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

So this all goes back to being immersed into the presence of God(life) by being immersed in His teachings

Matthew 28...

 

[heartwashed]

There is a conditional promise in Acts 2:38-39.

Fulfill the condition; receive the promise.

It's as simple as that.

 

[jaybo]

Are you trying to say I'm wrong about what I said, or are you just trying to clarify something? I said that in the context of 1 Pet. 3:21, it is assumed that water baptism and Spirit baptism are happening at the same time. Do you agree or disagree with that?

Further, I understand you cling to the dogma that water baptism saves. I disagree with that dogma, and I do not believe the scripture supports that idea. Eph. 2:5 clearly states "even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)." It does not say exactly when this event happened. It might be assumed to happen during water baptism, or it might be assumed to happen while the gospel is being preached.

But to be sure, scripture supports the process that water baptism happens chronologically later than belief in the gospel:
Acts 8:35-38 "Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him."
It is obvious that Philip's concern was that the Eunuch believed the gospel he preached to him before baptizing him. Believing the gospel is the faith that justifies, and therefore the Eunuch believed and was saved prior to his baptism.

Both Peter and Paul also support the idea that being born again results from hearing the gospel preached (not from water baptism):
1 Pet. 1:23 "for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God."
Rom. 10:9-11 "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
It is obvious they are talking about faith in the gospel, not water baptism. Therefore water baptism comes after belief in the truth about Christ, and the only reasonable conclusion we can make of this is that a person is saved by Spirit baptism, not water baptism.


BY: 1 Cor. 12:13 "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit." - baptism BY the Holy Spirit.
WITH: Mk. 1:8 "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." - baptism WITH the Spirit.
IN: John 1:33 "I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit." - baptism IN the Holy Spirit.
Ok, so my gaffe was using the term "of" instead of "in." It still means the same thing. Therefore, those phrases are indeed Biblical.

It appears to me that what you say about 2 ways we receive the Holy Spirit supports the modern Pentecostal idea that the H.S. falling on us is a 2nd blessing. Do you agree with that?

The scripture does appear to support the idea of additional Holy Spirit fillings or baptisms, the way I read it. However, I disagree with the modern Pentecostal/Charismatic idea that when the Holy Spirit falls on a person that they will speak in tongues. Although it says in Acts "they spoke with tongues and prophesied," it is speculation to claim that all of them did so. It is more reasonable IMO to say that some spoke tongues and some prophesied. It simply doesn't say, so anything beyond what the text actually states is conjecture.

"Be filled with the Spirit" is an exhortation to receive more of the Spirit that what one currently has, IMO. However, what that looks like and how it is played out is likely based on bias and agenda. Scripturally, the end result of this should be the fruit of the Spirit, which is displayed in attitudes and behavior.

Mungo is a Catholic and will respond only with Catholic dogma. I have given up trying to discuss Christian matters with him.

 

[Runmyramble]

I am fine, thanks be to God.

Water baptism?

Please define "it".

If this is still about water baptism, our baptism, the cleansing of past sins, provides the clear conscience.
If our sins have been washed away by the blood of Christ, what is there remaining to offend our conscience?
Converts are to make restitution to those we have sinned against, but that is a fruit of conversion and rebirth.
But those sins are in the past now, and attributed to the old man of sin who was killed at water baptism. (Rom 6:6)

There is a scripture I awoken to.
About the inside of the cup being made clean and then the outside would be clean.

I never really got that but I have to do some research still...I didn't get it because I felt like the outside still needed washings..

But then I thought of another word beside clean which was pure...which lead to purification of utensils used for service.

Before that explanation another passage came to me, which was: it's not what goes in the body that defiled it but what comes out of it.

Put 2 & 2 together and you get the Baptism that saves us now..

As I said before God[life] is the answer to a clear conscience before God.

Not only is the spirit the guarantee that we will have what he says will have as an earnest deposit...

But we talked about being immersed(Baptized) into the presence of God by being immersed(baptized) in His word.(teachings)

When is one cleaned from the inside out?
(As they walk in the Spirit they do not fullfill the lust of the flesh....and too they uphold the law.

How does one walk in the Spirit? By obeying the truth...

Who is the truth? Jesus is the way the truth and the life..no one comes to the father but through Him...

What does it mean that Jesus is the way??? Is it speaking of Him:
as the model?
the living, enduring word?
As the Messiah?
The outward manifestation of God in human form?

So beautifully said it is not the removal of dirt from the Skin.......dealing with the outward first as under the law.

However

Answer from God for a clear conscience
FOUND BY THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST..

How did the resurrection take place? He was quickened by the Spirit....(made alive by the Spirit) How??? Because He was in the presence of God? Because death could not hold the power being life. For He is the way the truth and the "life"....[must look up life.]
Because of His resurrection we can also be Justified by His faithfulness ...

And where is He said to be? Right hand of God with all things being under His authority.

I just had a thought... Why is Jesus bodily resurrection so important???
Wow! because He was man with a body and Spirit that are both in alignment in heaven.

Which in a sense says through Him we can conquer the works of the devil...which to me is being seperated from life with God. How our own personal will out of alignment with the will of God.

Therefore the Baptism that saves us is immersion into the presence of God...by doing what is right, by obeying the Spirit which is truth, and of course the truth sets us free from bondage under the kingdom of Satin.

This scripture just came to me: now being justified freely by faith..we have peace with God....through our LORD JESUS CHRIST

We are no longer to know any man after the flesh......for we are all under one in the same Spirit ....(spirit of peace?),(spirit of life), (spirit of joy)

And there it is God is Spirit and those that worship Him must worship(my words) with the right attitude....

This is why we first must be quickened by the Spirit...
For God is not the God of the dead but the living..what association does light have with dark.

Now...

Go back to the prepositional beginning in 1 Peter 3:19.

What do you find?
They were saved by water....
Water is not necessarily the Baptism
What saved them was their obedience to God

Therefore God saved them through the water based on their obedience to God...

The answer of a good conscience before God is God...God is faithful.

I bet He said He would save them in their obedience to Him and He did.

There obedience then must have brought them in the presence of God/a friendship relationship...(eternal life)

So then hopeful...I recall Jesus saying He gave Peter the key...to the kingdom or something similar.(etc etc)...so it is truly possible that through their obedience they were saved...but watch this...people are obedient from the heart first...As when Jesus Healed as they went (believed, etc) For example the scriptures that says they obeyed from the heart the form of doctrine that was presented to them....and God looks at the heart....To worship in Spirit is with the right attitude.

Anyway I think I am 74% satisfied with this....only because in my mind....
I think I have to distinguish between scriptures that are about Christ being in Us as oppose to those where we are in Christ......

 

[tdidymas]

Mungo is a Catholic and will respond only with Catholic dogma. I have given up trying to discuss Christian matters with him.

Tks for the info. It was somewhat of a challenge responding to him, as I never before encountered such objections to what scripture actually states. I take it as something of a preparation for the next time someone wants to debate the subject. I just hope people who read the post are edified.

 

[Runmyramble]

There is a conditional promise in Acts 2:38-39.

Fulfill the condition; receive the promise.

It's as simple as that.

Is definitely something Peter told them

And while in too many scriptures it is shown Baptism follows repentance and belief.....is there really much to say in what He meant?

At the time of the beginning of the church, to digress for a moment,
Miracles were done for those who did not believe.

How in this time and age looking back into the word would anyone know what took place in their heart ?

To believe is to obey from the heart..
And when do people receive the Spirit?
When they believe......[obey from the heart]
So it could be also known that after they believed they were baptized... Or even to show them as they believed in the heart...
PETER KNOWING WHAT WOULD HAPPEN...

There are many ways to look at this passage..but one thing we can do is find scriptures that show..those who believed were baptized....baptism then is a confession of faith-and outward showing of an inward work. For who? The people?

But after writing my last post...I am 99 percent sure that Baptism takes place when one believes.

Meaning that they are Baptized into the body of believers..
Why? Because they have came under the same Spiritual teaching.

I believe one calls upon the name of the Lord through faith...(if one says faith is going when not knowing) the go does not start with their feet but their intention of their heart to follow..(God looks at the heart)

In Genesis it said: then men begin to call upon the name of the Lord...to me that means they acted in faith..

Because you cannot please God without faith..
Faith itself denotes a spiritual aspect.
It's about intending to do what you believe....

Look at how Abraham brought His son to be sacrificed..
GOD DID NOT LET HIM KILL HIS SON, BUT ABE WOULD HAVE.

Now how can people call on whom they have not heard?..LET'S REALLY LOOK AT THAT PASSAGE AND SEEK CLARITY..ROMANS 10

8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.


Wait is that what it says in bold??? Or does it say:

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

THIS is big right here....because profession is different from confession.
one can profess an understanding of something...but in confession one owns up to the condition of their soul. So then Baptism is the outward confession to the work on the inside.

ANOTHERWORD, WHAT WE SAY AND DO SHOULD BE IN ALIGNMENT....

And that is the start of how our lives should progress/change....

but for God our justification is not so much our Actions outwardly. However He justifies by the intent if the heart, which makes the outward deed justified by man.

So water Baptism may have been away salvation of the soul was nosed abroad to the world....For those who believed usually were baptized..

So then what does it mean to call upon the name of the Lord....it's not merely a mouth thing but of those who have faith.










11It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.” 12For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14How then can they call on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

But not all of them welcomed the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 27Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

I'm not going bring up kjv...but the believed there above in blue in the kjv Is "obeyed"

18But I ask, did they not hear? Indeed they did:
“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.”
19I ask instead, did Israel not understand? First, Moses says:
“I will make you jealous by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation without understanding.”
20And Isaiah boldly says:
“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I revealed Myself to those who did not ask for Me.”
21But as for Israel he says:
“All day long I have held out My hands
to a disobedient and obstinate people.”