What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[jaybo]

Two things wrong with your post.

1. It contradicts scripture which clearly states that baptism saves (Mk 16:16 & 1Pet3:21)

2. John's baptism was a Jewish baptism and not "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Mt 28:19) as Jesus commanded.

Read my post immediately above. I won't argue about baptism with you. You are basing everything you say on Catholic doctrine, which I do not accept. I believe the Bible, not the doctrines of men.

Ephesians 2:4-9, "But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, even though we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!— and he raised us up together with him and seated us together with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, to demonstrate in the coming ages[q] the surpassing wealth of his grace in kindness toward[r] us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works [including baptism], so that no one can boast."

 

[jaybo]

So, your argument is that baptism in Jesus' Name is not a confession of Jesus Christ before men?

Stop twisting my words! Baptism in water is a confession, but it does not and cannot save you. God saves; ritual doesn't!

 

[heartwashed]

Ephesians 2:8-9, in the kjv, is more accurate,

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved (?) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[heartwashed]

Stop twisting my words! Baptism in water is a confession, but it does not and cannot save you. God saves; ritual doesn't!

Is baptism in water a confession of Jesus before men?

 

[jaybo]

Consider Luke 7:29-30.

Clearly in this passage, whether or not they were baptized had a direct effect on whether or not they had faith in Jesus.

This distortion of Scripture doesn't deserve an answer.

 

[heartwashed]

This distortion of Scripture doesn't deserve an answer.

Nope, I have demonstrated exegesis in the portraying of this scripture (rather than eisegesis).

 

[jaybo]

Ephesians 2:8-9, in the kjv, is more accurate,

Eph 2:8, For by grace are ye saved (?) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

More accurate than what?

a) What is with the question mark?
b) What are your credentials as a Biblical translator?

 

[jaybo]

Nope, I have demonstrated exegesis in the portraying of this scripture (rather than eisegesis).

Nope, I have demonstrated exegesis in the portraying of this scripture (rather than eisegesis).

 

[Mungo]

Read my post immediately above. I won't argue about baptism with you. You are basing everything you say on Catholic doctrine, which I do not accept. I believe the Bible, not the doctrines of men.

Ephesians 2:4-9, "But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, even though we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!— and he raised us up together with him and seated us together with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, to demonstrate in the coming ages[q] the surpassing wealth of his grace in kindness toward[r] us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works [including baptism], so that no one can boast."

You don't believe the bible if you don't accept Mk16:16 & 1 Pet 3:21
Besides, I agree that it is grace that saves us but it is in baptism that the grace is given.
Catholic doctrine teaches that we are saved by grace, not by works.

 

[Mungo]

It is interesting that neither of the verses that you quote is "baptism" mentioned. Again, if baptism saves, why weren't those who John baptized saved?

John 3:5-6, "Then people from Jerusalem, as well as all Judea and all the region around the Jordan, were going out to him, and he was baptizing them in the Jordan River as they confessed their sins."

Luke 3:15-18, "While the people were filled with anticipation and they all wondered whether perhaps John could be the Christ, John answered them all, “I baptize you with water, but one more powerful than I am is coming—I am not worthy to untie the strap[aw] of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand to clean out his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his storehouse, but the chaff he will burn up with inextinguishable fire.” And in this way, with many other exhortations, John proclaimed good news to the people."

John 10:40-41, " Jesus went back across the Jordan River[e] again to the place where John had been baptizing at an earlier time, and he stayed there. Many came to him and began to say, “John performed no miraculous sign, but everything John said about this man was true!”

If baptism saves, why did the people say this? Clearly, baptism in water saves nobody.

As I have pointed out - and you are trying to ignore, John's baptism was a Jewish baptism and not "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Mt 28:19) as Jesus commanded.

 

[Mungo]

Baptism in water is a confession, but it does not and cannot save you. God saves; ritual doesn't!

God saves us in Baptism. That is when the grace of Justification is given.

 

[heartwashed]

More accurate than what?

a) What is with the question mark?
b) What are your credentials as a Biblical translator?

A question mark naturally follows with the order of words in the sentence, "are ye saved", as it is written in the kjv.

As for my credentials, I am strictly an amateur.

However, I do believe that I rightly hold a kjv-superior position concerning Bible translations based on an accurate understanding of Revelation 22:18-19; which tells me that consequences would be invisible until the day of judgment if certain translators were to take away from the word of God; while if other translators added to it, the consequences would be immediately visible.

Therefore I side with translations that keep in specific words, phrases, sentences, paragraphs, and passages; since I also personally don't want to be cheated out of something that the Holy Spirit might want to say to me.

Nope, I have demonstrated exegesis in the portraying of this scripture (rather than eisegesis).

You are a parrot now, are you?

How have you demonstrated exegesis concerning this scripture? You haven't even commented on it.

 

[jaybo]

You don't believe the bible if you don't accept Mk16:16 & 1 Pet 3:21
Besides, I agree that it is grace that saves us but it is in baptism that the grace is given.
Catholic doctrine teaches that we are saved by grace, not by works.

I have discussed too many things with you. You believe what you want to believe. I am not a Catholic, so I believe the Bible -- all of it -- not men's teachings. You have no right to tell me that I don't believe the Bible!!!

 

[Mungo]

I have discussed too many things with you. You believe what you want to believe. I am not a Catholic, so I believe the Bible -- all of it -- not men's teachings. You have no right to tell me that I don't believe the Bible!!!

How can you say you believe all of the Bible when you don't beleive what Jesus says in Mk 16:16?
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved"

And what Peter writes in 1Pet3:21?
"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you"

I believe the Bible - all of it.

 

[jaybo]

How can you say you believe all of the Bible when you don't beleive what Jesus says in Mk 16:16?
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved"

And what Peter writes in 1Pet3:21?
"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you"

I believe the Bible - all of it.

I don't take single verses out of context to reinforce a doctrine that is taught by Catholic priests. Go ahead and believe that baptism -- a ritual -- saves you, when the Bible clearly says that believing in Jesus Christ as the Savior is what saves you.

Try reading John's gospel for a starter!

 

[Mungo]

I don't take single verses out of context to reinforce a doctrine that is taught by Catholic priests.

Nor do I jaybo. I just believe what the Bible clearly teaches.

Go ahead and believe that baptism -- a ritual -- saves you, when the Bible clearly says that believing in Jesus Christ as the Savior is what saves you.

Try reading John's gospel for a starter!

As I have already pointed out, I believe that God saves us. He gives us the grace of Justification in baptism. That is Biblical.
Nowhere does scripture day we are saved by faith alone - if there were you would have quoted it.

 

[jaybo]

Nor do I jaybo. I just believe what the Bible clearly teaches.


As I have already pointed out, I believe that God saves us. He gives us the grace of Justification in baptism. That is Biblical.
Nowhere does scripture day we are saved by faith alone - if there were you would have quoted it.

Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Plain enough???

 

[jaybo]

Nor do I jaybo. I just believe what the Bible clearly teaches.


As I have already pointed out, I believe that God saves us. He gives us the grace of Justification in baptism. That is Biblical.
Nowhere does scripture day we are saved by faith alone - if there were you would have quoted it.

You believe what Catholic doctrine says, not what the Bible clearly teaches. You have shown that over and over and over. Where is the Pope mentioned in the Bible? Where does "Catholic" appear in the Bible?

 

[Mungo]

Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.

Plain enough???

1. I agree with that scripture. It says we are saved by grace just as I said in a previous post.
2. It does not say we are saved by faith but through faith.
3. It does not say we are saved by faith alone.
So basically it doesn't say what you claim.

Here is an explanation of that verse from a Catholic apologist that I posted in another thread.
"...to say it another way, my faith - or the faith of my parents if I am baptized as a baby - gets me to a place where God can then save me because of His grace. So, I am saved by God's grace alone, in Baptism. But, it is through faith that I got to the point where God could save me. If I am saved "because of" my faith, then I would be saved the moment I had faith. There would be no need of Baptism since I would have been saved "because of" my faith.

Or, imagine a fountain that is surrounded by a tall fence. The fence has but one gate. No way to get to the fountain except through the gate. The gate has a name on it...Faith. This fountain flows with the waters of eternal life. I have to walk "through" the gate of Faith to get to the fountain of eternal life, but I don't bathe in the waters of the fountain and receive eternal life "because of" the gate."

 

[Mungo]

You believe what Catholic doctrine says, not what the Bible clearly teaches.

I believe the Bible and see no contradiction between the Bible and Catholic doctrine.

You have shown that over and over and over.

You claim that but it isn't true.

Where is the Pope mentioned in the Bible? Where does "Catholic" appear in the Bible?

That's a silly argument.
Where is Trinity in the Bible?
Where is Incarnation in the Bible?
Just because a word doesn't appear in the Bible doesn't mean that it is false.