i can go along with that. in fact it probably pretty close. even though i favor pre trib
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when the church is called out-----rapture
- Thread starter jerry63935
- Start date
I only gave that stipulation as I once believe in a pretrib rapture of the church and Rev 4:1 is one of the scriptures these teachers use for support, but it's not there. I did ask if anyone could show me other scriptures other than that one I would consider them. Anytime I have ever asked this question the go to is Rev 4:1.
the Church is no longer mentioned after this and i also go by
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
King James Version
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
for the life of me i fail to see us going through the 7 year tribulation . why would he inflict punishment upon those truly saved. but yes you put stipulation in your reply. all in all it really dont matter it will take place when God says it. when the Church is took out all Hell will break lose
2 Thessalonians 2:7
King James Version
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. when the Church is gone the restraining of the Holy Spirit will be no more HE be taken out of the way
not sure i understand but is it necessary for salvation? NO both follow salvation
It's still a part .what get saved and not in that period be disciples and study ?
That problem is why I left futurism .
Jesus says once he comes it's over ,no well there's the millennial reign to teach the gentiles .while one could argue that bit well Jesus own words don't say that .
There will be the needs of elders and persons to teach ,so if every one is gone who will then be watching as most sinners would be way beyond caring ,something about that mark ,no chance to repent save possible exception with the two witnesses.
Salvation is also not a one time event but a process . discipliship is part of it .I can't see such evil being simply avoidable by baby Christians who have no knowledge of what they believed and sticking to it without others to guide them and keep them.
Faith coming by hearing of the words and the word by one who preaches.
Only a few exceptions of an angel and the two witnesses
after the Church is called out the antichrist will come to power... God is giving every opportunity for folks to be saved not willing any should perish.. those left behind will more or less have to deny the mark of the beast. possible face death i just aint to sure of anyone being saved . its simply going to be hell on earth.
Revelation 9:6 Context
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. 6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. 7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. 8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. 9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
Yet how does one who was gay know what normal male hood is ?
There's seven years there .they won't know.all the elders who know what is normal are gone.
Imagine being in your 20s today seeking a wife ,even now many refuse to marry ,even in the church .
Imagine that level of sin amplified and then repenting and you only have the Bible to read .I was in that sin .there's much I battle I don't post on dysfunction.
It's one thing to repent but another to avoid that falling away .as Paul says steal no more but also Work !
That's the question .I can't see God pulling a church then saying his elect will not be decieved when they have no idea of what happened.
while i will say i dont agree with your view.. i can respect it because of the manner you present it. but to be honest i fail to understand your above points. when the Church is taken out/up. he has given all the opportunity he will allow . just like Noah and his family they was the only ones who survived the flood.
this is the type people going through the great tribulation
Revelation 16:11 Context
8And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. 12And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
sad part is there will be good people left behind saved people have gone on.
if there are any saved.. God will have a way of making it happen
Scripture never mentions a 7 year tribulation, but only 7 trumpets with each one bringing the wrath of God against those who are not His own in hopes they will turn back to Him before Jesus returns. During the timing of the seventh trumpet the son of perdition will take his seat in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years claiming he is God and will cause all to bow down and take the mark of this beast and if they who are still alive at that time and do not renounce Jesus will die a martyr's death.
If we are taken out in a pretrib rapture then why would there be a need of anything else that we read about after Rev 4:1.
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God as we are also His disciples.
Mat 24:13,29-31 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is telling us to watch for the signs of His coming and to overcome so that our names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 5:13; 6:17; 7:1-5 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days as God's wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal.
Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were, which means those of the elect of God who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will die a martyr's death for their faith in Christ.
Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation is the fullness of the Gentiles who also died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ.
Rev 8:13 Three woes are that of warning the people on earth that the last three trumpets are about to sound.
Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about mystery Babylon ruling the world as a one world government. 666 represents the number of the beast and the mark is the action of the hands and thoughts of the mind as many will be deceived and accept this mark.
Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.
Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. The elect of God are told to watch for the return of Christ as He comes like a theif and we are to keep our garments clean and not found in shame
Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire and Christ is about to return for His Bride
Rev 19:7,8 We being the Bride of Christ have now made ourselves ready for His coming as those who are still alive at this time and asleep in the grave have endured until the last day when Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet and sends His angels out to gather the Bride up to meet Jesus in the air.
Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until the end being the last day when Christ returns.
Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth
i am not going back in forth over this. i know some who hold to this.. but i dont hold to this . were not in the great tribulation yet
Noah preached ,none that were alive then the flood started were raptured away .btw John sees only the tribulation saints In heaven ,if the church was in heaven given all the saints would be in the presence of God that is strange .
The myriad of gentiles are listed as those that were beheaded .
noah and his family was taken Out of the flood a picture of Christ taking us out
the reason its strange it goes against your belief . look i dont hold the keys to all these events . i am not a expert theologian. i learn as i go God has this not MAN
there we agree
No ,just in that John would have mentioned it others there .
So either the ressurection didn't occur yet ,or the soul sleep idea for the others .
You would think that the saints there would all be worshipping .
Actually no ,Noah didn't get whisked to heaven but rode out the storm inside the arm and felt and heard the judgement.he had to have heard the rain and felt some of the vessel floating higher and being moved by the rising water
Even larger naval ships will sway in storms .I have seen those videos .those are about thirty stories tall .
Even larger naval ships will sway in storms .I have seen those videos .those are about thirty stories tall .
thinking gives me a headache honestly even though we disagree ..i think we have more things in common than we realize . you give a interesting discussion and with you . i dont mind it i like the pan millennium theory live your life for Christ it will all pan out
symbolism my friend symbolism he was took out by way of the ark