How did you get that ,Enoch saying the Lord will judge and the context of false teachers ,and heretics listed before that in Jude .
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when the church is called out-----rapture
- Thread starter jerry63935
- Start date
the true Church those born again will Not stand in judgment with those who are not . the bema seat we give account of the good and bad. but has no bearing on salvation
I know what the bema is .I was staying home did you get the idea I said the Lord would judge his own faithful .
Dorothy Mae
Member
jerry63935, I need to apologize to you for responding to your OP where I was making a fuss about words. The Lord spoke to me last night out if Paul’s warning not to argue endlessly about words and that’s what I did. I have repented and ask you forgiveness. That was wrong of me. Please accept my apology.
its all good the post went south anyway.
Dorothy Mae
Member
I laughed out loud!!
Dorothy Mae
Member
No where. There are references to the Resurrection where the dead come out of the graves and the living believers are “caught up” but that’s followed by judgement of all, great and small.
that is where we get the word rapture from. Christ takes the church out and then the judgements
Dorothy Mae
Member
Except this is the Resurrection with individual Judgement. There is only the Resurrection.
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Dorothy Mae
Member
It’s amazing to me how ones eschatology permeates one’s thinking. When you’re not a futurist, you notice how often that eschatology is laced through so many topics. It refuses to stay put in “end times.”
I know a pastor who could tie in Christmas or any season to the return .
Futurists do that as well .said pastor is a pre tribbeR .
Obamanation of desolation.he would say that jokingly but we'll lol
A lot of you might scoff and think this is foolishness, especially those of you that are not in the Lord or allow man to teach you instead of the Holy Spirit, (Not directing that at any one person) but God said in Daniel 12:4 and Proverbs 10:14 that knowledge would increase more towards the end of days and what God has been revealing to me through the Holy Spirit has been a warning to not be afraid of what must come, but to prepare ourselves to learn how to endure what we are going to have to go through before the return of Christ. Hosea 4:6 says my people perish for lack of knowledge.
Most pastors teach a pretrib rapture, but this is false teaching and not according to what God has already taught us. Matthew 24 shows us exactly what must come first and God said to those who endure until the end of days will be his elect. Daniel 7:23-27; Revelation 13:1-10; Revelation 17; Luke 21:36 are just a few scriptures of God showing us we will go through much tribulation. The Bible mentions nothing about a so called seven year tribulation period, but states we have always had tribulation from the beginning of time when Adam and Eve sinned against God.
Below I have explained with scripture that the True Church of Christ (body of Christ) alive at His coming or a sleep in the grave will be caught up to Christ on the last day when Christ returns.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Church, which represents the bride of Christ, will face seeing much tribulation as it will be hard to bare seeing Gods wrath poured out on the unjust as those who are anointed by God's Holy Spirit are sent out to preach to them before we enter into the kingdom of God (New Jerusalem). There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before some seven year Great Tribulation, but there is no scripture that speaks of a seven year Great Tribulation, but only 3 1/2 years. Some also teach that after Rev Chapter 4 the Church is no longer here on earth. If this were the case then why did Jesus say that those who endure until the end will be saved. The end of what, the end of days or as scripture calls it that great and terrible day of the Lord when final judgment will be passed as the Sheep are separated from the goats and the goats are cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and false prophets.
By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus as the Holy Spirit strengthens us to stand and endure until the coming of the Lord as God has a place prepared for us in the wilderness as His wrath passes over the earth, Rev 12:6. We need to be His witnesses as a faithful servant until He returns. God's wrath is not for the elect of God as they are kept from it falling on them and when we see the abomination that causes desolation, Daniel Chapter 7; Matthew 24:15-22; Rev Chapter 13, we are to flee from taking its mark as we stand in a greater faith in Christ that we need not fear that which has to come first before Christ returns, Matthew 10:28, but that we need to be prepared as His Bride when He does return on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet at His coming, Rev 19.
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God as we are also His disciples.
Mat 24:13,29-31 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is telling us to watch for the signs of His coming and to overcome so that our names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 5:13; 6:17; 7:1-5 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days as God's wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal.
Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were, which means those of the elect of God who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will die a martyr's death for their faith in Christ.
Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation is the fullness of the Gentiles who also died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ.
Rev 8:13 Three woes are that of warning the people on earth that the last three trumpets are about to sound.
Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about mystery Babylon ruling the world as a one world government. 666 represents the number of the beast and the mark is the action of the hands and thoughts of the mind as many will be deceived and accept this mark.
Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.
Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. The elect of God are told to watch for the return of Christ as He comes like a theif and we are to keep our garments clean and not found in shame
Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire and Christ is about to return for His Bride
Rev 19:7,8 We being the Bride of Christ have now made ourselves ready for His coming as those who are still alive at this time and asleep in the grave have endured until the last day when Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet and sends His angels out to gather the Bride up to meet Jesus in the air.
Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until the end being the last day when Christ returns.
Most pastors teach a pretrib rapture, but this is false teaching and not according to what God has already taught us. Matthew 24 shows us exactly what must come first and God said to those who endure until the end of days will be his elect. Daniel 7:23-27; Revelation 13:1-10; Revelation 17; Luke 21:36 are just a few scriptures of God showing us we will go through much tribulation. The Bible mentions nothing about a so called seven year tribulation period, but states we have always had tribulation from the beginning of time when Adam and Eve sinned against God.
Below I have explained with scripture that the True Church of Christ (body of Christ) alive at His coming or a sleep in the grave will be caught up to Christ on the last day when Christ returns.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The Church, which represents the bride of Christ, will face seeing much tribulation as it will be hard to bare seeing Gods wrath poured out on the unjust as those who are anointed by God's Holy Spirit are sent out to preach to them before we enter into the kingdom of God (New Jerusalem). There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before some seven year Great Tribulation, but there is no scripture that speaks of a seven year Great Tribulation, but only 3 1/2 years. Some also teach that after Rev Chapter 4 the Church is no longer here on earth. If this were the case then why did Jesus say that those who endure until the end will be saved. The end of what, the end of days or as scripture calls it that great and terrible day of the Lord when final judgment will be passed as the Sheep are separated from the goats and the goats are cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and false prophets.
By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus as the Holy Spirit strengthens us to stand and endure until the coming of the Lord as God has a place prepared for us in the wilderness as His wrath passes over the earth, Rev 12:6. We need to be His witnesses as a faithful servant until He returns. God's wrath is not for the elect of God as they are kept from it falling on them and when we see the abomination that causes desolation, Daniel Chapter 7; Matthew 24:15-22; Rev Chapter 13, we are to flee from taking its mark as we stand in a greater faith in Christ that we need not fear that which has to come first before Christ returns, Matthew 10:28, but that we need to be prepared as His Bride when He does return on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet at His coming, Rev 19.
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God as we are also His disciples.
Mat 24:13,29-31 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is telling us to watch for the signs of His coming and to overcome so that our names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 5:13; 6:17; 7:1-5 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days as God's wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal.
Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were, which means those of the elect of God who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will die a martyr's death for their faith in Christ.
Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation is the fullness of the Gentiles who also died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ.
Rev 8:13 Three woes are that of warning the people on earth that the last three trumpets are about to sound.
Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about mystery Babylon ruling the world as a one world government. 666 represents the number of the beast and the mark is the action of the hands and thoughts of the mind as many will be deceived and accept this mark.
Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.
Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. The elect of God are told to watch for the return of Christ as He comes like a theif and we are to keep our garments clean and not found in shame
Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire and Christ is about to return for His Bride
Rev 19:7,8 We being the Bride of Christ have now made ourselves ready for His coming as those who are still alive at this time and asleep in the grave have endured until the last day when Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet and sends His angels out to gather the Bride up to meet Jesus in the air.
Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until the end being the last day when Christ returns.
FIRST off you can not prove your point 2nd you as with any of us have our own interpretation came by study of the Bible scriptures .you have selected scriptures to fit YOUR Belief . its much like the teaching on the plan of Salvation.
OSAS vs osnas you know what i have studied this inside and outside . both teachings there is NO i repeat NO scripture that comes right out and says you can or you can NOT lose salvation . so it goes the same with Christ return. we dont know %100 of his exact return pre mid or after trib. i tried my best to avoid this with my O.P see it all feel on deaf ears . people have there mind made it and it case closed . yes i will stand by pre trib till the HOLY SPIRIT shows me different.. and it stands the same way with you.
so your so called false teaching statement is out of order the only reason you call it false teaching is due to the fact. you think you have the correct theology. when Jesus takes His Church .pretty sure a lot of us are going to be surprised .
back my o.p question IS it that important to say His return is pretrib mid of after trib . its good for personal study but not that important . due to the Fact God calls the shots its in his timing .it is safe to say we are living in the last days . how far into the last days i do not know nor anyone else.. we have to ready
Certainly not pre trib .Paul said we that are alive .he thought he might be around .
everyone is different and every one interprets scriptures different
I left pre trib about a decade ago
I gave the full context of what is written in scripture without any interpretation as scripture interprets itself when you read it for what has already been written about being caught up to Christ, but if just one person could show me just one scripture to prove a pretrib rapture then maybe I would consider I might be wrong and please do not use Rev 4:1 as vs 2 only says John was in the Spirit when he received these visions, not taken up to heaven.
that is you
I has problems with that position and mid trib.
More of I not really anyone position .looking back to the early church .it's interesting on what we think
aswww stipulations on how one can reply . you gave scriptures that you use to back up your belief .. the very thing you dislike about denominations and not finding a perfect Church . i dont mind posting back and forth on pre trib vs trib.. but the false teaching remarks is a bit much. i get that in cram forum. going against Calvinism. first thing they say is straw man or false teaching