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Who made God?

wondering said:
Hi Oz,
I also live in a secular country...Europe is pretty much secular these days. Churches are empty and traditions are disappearing.

Who made God is an interesting question.

I like to tell the person that we have two choices and only two:
And each choice has a problem and we can only decide with which problem we wish to spend the rest of our life.


1. God made everything. We can't understand how God is present or how He made everything or everything about Him or how He got to BE.

2. We have to accept that everything we see around us came about from nothing at all.


Quite a choice!
And yet, this is the choice we are faced with.

I tell them that if we're reading a book...
someone had to put that book together.
If we're wearing a watch...
someone had to make that watch.
The watchmaker theory.

This, to me, seems more logical.
Somehow, everything had to get here...
the question is which way do we trust more?

Nowadays, since we know so much more, I like to say how our DNA is organized and could not have come about by mistake or evolution -- it truly seems impossible when we understand how a cell functions.

So, I throw the old "something from nothing" impossibility out there and see how they handle it.

The other reasons are not accepted...like for instance..
the question is faulty because God was not created and the question assumes He was. They could care less about this reasoning.

But, even I think it is a real mystery that will be understood only after we pass away at which time we will know all.
Click to expand...

wondering,

I've been thinking some more about your excellent answer. I'm of the view that your response relates more to the question of, 'How did the universe begin?' than 'Who made God?'

Would you please be able to help me understand how your answer relates to, 'Who made God?'

Thanks,
Oz
 
Not_Now.Soon said:
A second thing about the bible is how it always seems to convey the same message or simular messages. I know people say there are contradictions, but I don't see them. In the span the bible was written, the number of authors (40 authors written in 3 different languages) and the same message from God to repent, turn from your sins, as well as God recusing His people and His judgement on wickedness. These don't seem to change, not throughout the history of older books to newer books.
Click to expand...

NNS,

OT scholar, Gleason Archer, had to check out these alleged contradictions in the Bible before he could accept the Bible as the inerrant Scripture in the original MSS. The end results are found in his publication, Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties (online). He now supports inerrancy of the original MSS.

When I encounter Bible difficulties or alleged contradiction, I consult 3 vols by God-given teachers:
  1. The one just mentioned by Gleason Archer;
  2. Hard Sayings of the Bible (Kaiser et al), and
  3. When Critics Ask (online), Norman Geisler & Thomas Howe.
Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Please explain how that can be.
Click to expand...
Created would suggest a creator. No man can answer, "Where did God come from?" However I can reason from scripture "if " God has a beginning it can not be from any other being. So there is no "who" created God.

We can state what God gave. No God was "formed" before Him nor will they be one after Him.
 
OzSpen said:
wondering,

I've been thinking some more about your excellent answer. I'm of the view that your response relates more to the question of, 'How did the universe begin?' than 'Who made God?'

Would you please be able to help me understand how your answer relates to, 'Who made God?'

Thanks,
Oz
Click to expand...
Sure.
It relates to WHO MADE GOD.

IOW, atheists tell us we have a problem because we don't now who made God. This is true. We could give reason such as the first cause...but it does not satisfy.

Also, they have a problem because if God does not exist,,,then who made everything we see?

As to who made God...He is a first cause. He was not made and always existed. But there is, IMO, no answer that satisfies the atheist. So we have to ask THEM how what THEY believe --- that everything comes from nothing --- is any EASIER to believe than answering who made God.

Is this better?
There is no real answer as to who made God...
so hit them up with a different way of thinking about it.

I haven't read the whole thread...I just don't have the time right now...I should soon...see what the other members have said.
Anything interesting?
 
Randy said:
Created would suggest a creator. No man can answer, "Where did God come from?" However I can reason from scripture "if " God has a beginning it can not be from any other being. So there is no "who" created God.

We can state what God gave. No God was "formed" before Him nor will they be one after Him.
Click to expand...

Randy,

Does that mean you accept God's existence by faith and there is no point in reasoning with people about it - apart from what the Bible states?

Oz
 
wondering said:
Sure.
It relates to WHO MADE GOD.

IOW, atheists tell us we have a problem because we don't now who made God. This is true. We could give reason such as the first cause...but it does not satisfy.

Also, they have a problem because if God does not exist,,,then who made everything we see?

As to who made God...He is a first cause. He was not made and always existed. But there is, IMO, no answer that satisfies the atheist. So we have to ask THEM how what THEY believe --- that everything comes from nothing --- is any EASIER to believe than answering who made God.

Is this better?
There is no real answer as to who made God...
so hit them up with a different way of thinking about it.

I haven't read the whole thread...I just don't have the time right now...I should soon...see what the other members have said.
Anything interesting?
Click to expand...

wondering,

You might like to view this very short clip on 'Who made God?' by Nathan Betts of RZIM.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Randy,

Does that mean you accept God's existence by faith and there is no point in reasoning with people about it - apart from what the Bible states?

Oz
Click to expand...
I have the spirit of Christ in me which was by faith. I "know" that He lives.

They have Genesis through revelation. Which is 1000's of years of testimony through many different people. If they can't believe in God what could I possibly add that would convince them otherwise?

No one knows where God came from. God is not a carbon based life form that can be studied. God is Spirit.

I can't ever recall a atheist asking me to prove the existence of God to them.
 
Randy said:
I have the spirit of Christ in me which was by faith. I "know" that He lives.

They have Genesis through revelation. Which is 1000's of years of testimony through many different people. If they can't believe in God what could I possibly add that would convince them otherwise?

No one knows where God came from. God is not a carbon based life form that can be studied. God is Spirit.

I can't ever recall a atheist asking me to prove the existence of God to them.
Click to expand...

Randy,

Scripture says we are to provide evidence to people:

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse (Rom 1:18-20 NIV).
Click to expand...

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Randy,

Scripture says we are to provide evidence to people:



Oz
Click to expand...
Scripture states I am saved by faith. If I try to help some one with "God's" words and they want me to prove the existence of God to them I would reply, "why? I am just trying to help you"
 
Randy said:
I have the spirit of Christ in me which was by faith. I "know" that He lives.

They have Genesis through revelation. Which is 1000's of years of testimony through many different people. If they can't believe in God what could I possibly add that would convince them otherwise?

No one knows where God came from. God is not a carbon based life form that can be studied. God is Spirit.

I can't ever recall a atheist asking me to prove the existence of God to them.
Click to expand...
I agree with what you've said...
however, yes, we get asked all the time how we could prove God exists....as if something out of space and time could be proven.

P.S. It's interesting that Christianity has always held that God is outside of time. Science has recently discovered that, indeed, before the Big Bang, time did not exist, and that it began with the BB. More and more science is agreeing with Christianity.
 
Randy said:
Scripture states I am saved by faith. If I try to help some one with "God's" words and they want me to prove the existence of God to them I would reply, "why? I am just trying to help you"
Click to expand...

Randy,

I agree with Scripture that we are saved by faith, but that wasn't my response to you, to which you are replying: 'Scripture says we are to provide evidence to people' and I gave Rom 1:18-20 as an example of this evidence.

But you avoided my topic and went off into what I didn't ask.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Randy,

I agree with Scripture that we are saved by faith, but that wasn't my response to you, to which you are replying: 'Scripture says we are to provide evidence to people' and I gave Rom 1:18-20 as an example of this evidence.

But you avoided my topic and went off into what I didn't ask.

Oz
Click to expand...
I don't have to provide anything as I am saved by faith. If and when I testify, and I do on occasion, I give people Jesus's words as I believe in judgments made it will be His words that prevail.

Scripture states faith comes from hearing and hearing comes by the word of God.
 
OzSpen said:
I'm of the view that apologetics has low interest in the local evangelical church as those churches have not seen the need to equip young people especially for the anti-Christian challenges in life. I speak from personal experience. My local evangelical church where I was baptised was faithful in expounding Scripture but apologetics got a flick pass.
Click to expand...

You are spot on. Apologetics is a subject many churches shy away from and in this day in age of online info, it is imperative that saints are equipped to "defend the faith."

The starting point is being able to show why the Bible should be regarded as a divinely inspired document.
 
I read an article on a news and analysis site I frequented more in the past, still visit now and then. Too Marxist for me, now. Anyway, in it the author writes the "god" (note the lower case) is/was an invention of the capitalist class. So...

for all the true believer Marxists out there, that's an explanation. I had a psychiatrist for a while (he went into private practice, thank goodness) who would book me for 30 minute talk session, once monthly. This, at an over-booked community mental health clinic (Meds 'r' Us). He always had a convo planned, and when he got to religion...

he shared his take on it, which is that religion is a money making enterprise. Others...Freud, maybe?...in the psych industry before him have argued for religion as a coping mechanism, a defense mechanism, a sort of neurosis (that one I think is Freudian...), or...in the case of Jung...they've turned the religious impulse into a money-and-power scheme, by secularizing it, analyzing it, dissecting it...

and then selling it, along with their own "insights."

So...who made The One, True, Living God? No one. He is The Great I AM, after all. As believers, we have been blessed with sufficient humility to shrug and say that we simply accept some things on faith. Those in and of the world...

not so much, it seems. :)
 
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