WHY DID GOD GIVE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS?

[Davies]

Hi Mitspa,

Can we say that God gave us the Ten Commandments because he loved us? I think so.

Psalm 1:1-2

New King James Version (NKJV)

BOOK ONE: Psalms 1—41

The Way of the Righteous and the End of the Ungodly

1 Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.



- Davies

 

[Mitspa]

Hi Mitspa,

Can we say that God gave us the Ten Commandments because he loved us? I think so.

Psalm 1:1-2

New King James Version (NKJV)

BOOK ONE: Psalms 1—41

The Way of the Righteous and the End of the Ungodly

1 Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.



- Davies

I think its clear that we see our sinful condition through the law. Paul said I would not have know sin but by the law.So the law as in Gal describes clearly, was as a servant to bring us to Christ. So then we honor the servant but we do not serve it.We now serve the Master and walk not by the letter but by the Spirit.

 

[Davies]

Hi Mitspa,

I would agree with you that we don't walk by the letter of the law, and we see our sinful condition (the giving of the Law was a most loving thing to do for man), but doesn't walking by the Spirit help us to establish, or, obey the law? I don't mean that we keep it perfectly, but we grow increasingly into the image of Jesus. If we are more like Jesus, then we will do the things Jesus did.

- Davies

 

[Mitspa]

Hi Mitspa,

I would agree with you that we don't walk by the letter of the law, and we see our sinful condition (the giving of the Law was a most loving thing to do for man), but doesn't walking by the Spirit help us to establish, or, obey the law? I don't mean that we keep it perfectly, but we grow increasingly into the image of Jesus. If we are more like Jesus, then we will do the things Jesus did.

- Davies

The Law is established in a believer when we admit that we cannot keep it? For we know whatsoever the law saith it saith to those who are under the law, that the whole world will become guilty before God. This is what Paul was speaking of when he said "we establish the law"

Now the law is a permanent witness against the flesh of man.It also stands as a testimony to Gods Righteousness and the Commandment of the Father that we must come to Him by faith alone through His Son. This is "Holy Commandment" we see thoughout the New Testament.

 

[smaller]

Hi Mitspa,

I would agree with you that we don't walk by the letter of the law, and we see our sinful condition (the giving of the Law was a most loving thing to do for man), but doesn't walking by the Spirit help us to establish, or, obey the law? I don't mean that we keep it perfectly, but we grow increasingly into the image of Jesus. If we are more like Jesus, then we will do the things Jesus did.

- Davies

Very good. Paul actually pushes us 'off' the literalist view of the external exercise of LAW and force moves us to understand same as 'spiritual fulfillment' of that same Law.

The Law itself proves there are TWO workings in the believer. When the Law comes into mind, Paul showed that the workings of sin indwelling him 'caused' every manner of concupiscence to arise in his own mind. That is the working of the LAW against the 'lawlessness' that we 'all' down to the last man carry and continue to carry as A FACT.

This is a TRUTHFUL WITNESS about the validity of the Law that is 'Divinely Designed' by God to openly show this working to be 'in us.' The factual working of internal resistance is beyond denial. We may like to ignore it, but it remains a REALITY regardless of any denials.

Paul takes us through the 'steps' of these matters personally, which landed him exactly on spiritual fulfillment in Romans 13:8-10 of all commands in the entire text therein (and in other places as well.)

It is not then that we deny the Law in either regards.

We can not say the working of resistance to WRITTEN LETTER exists within us. Yet we walk as overcomers in the Spirit of same.

There is no need then to denigrate the Law. The very opposite is held forth as the proof of the workings of SIN within.

It also contains the Spiritual path of obedience, not to written letter, but to spiritual intentions.

The Spirit will NEVER deny the letter of the Law as they are Gods Words, exacting in their workings of fact, to show us our lawlessness.

Believers will stumble when they deny that fact Law, they will DENY Gods Words of Law, they will RUN AWAY from the factual conclustions, and will seek to cover their lawlessness rather than honestly exposing same to be within, as PAUL DID.

s

 

[Mitspa]

Very good. Paul actually pushes us 'off' the literalist view of the external exercise of LAW and force moves us to understand same as 'spiritual fulfillment' of that same Law.

The Law itself proves there are TWO workings in the believer. When the Law comes into mind, Paul showed that the workings of sin indwelling him 'caused' every manner of concupiscence to arise in his own mind. That is the working of the LAW against the 'lawlessness' that we 'all' down to the last man carry and continue to carry as A FACT.

This is a TRUTHFUL WITNESS about the validity of the Law that is 'Divinely Designed' by God to openly show this working to be 'in us.' The factual working of internal resistance is beyond denial. We may like to ignore it, but it remains a REALITY regardless of any denials.

Paul takes us through the 'steps' of these matters personally, which landed him exactly on spiritual fulfillment in Romans 13:8-10 of all commands in the entire text therein (and in other places as well.)

It is not then that we deny the Law in either regards.

We can not say the working of resistance to WRITTEN LETTER exists within us. Yet we walk as overcomers in the Spirit of same.

There is no need then to denigrate the Law. The very opposite is held forth as the proof of the workings of SIN within.

It also contains the Spiritual path of obedience, not to written letter, but to spiritual intentions.

The Spirit will NEVER deny the letter of the Law as they are Gods Words, exacting in their workings of fact, to show us our lawlessness.

Believers will stumble when they deny that fact Law, they will DENY Gods Words of Law, they will RUN AWAY from the factual conclustions, and will seek to cover their lawlessness rather than honestly exposing same to be within, as PAUL DID.

s

Well i agree in large part, but the "letter" can not judge the Spirit! for instance the Sabbath acording to the "letter" was a certain day. The Spirit reveals that the True Sabbath is the "eternal Day" and the eternal rest we have in Christ. (see Heb4)
so then the Spirit is the true the letter is but a shadow of a spiritual truth we have in Christ.

 

[Davies]

The Law is established in a believer when we admit that we cannot keep it? For we know whatsoever the law saith it saith to those who are under the law, that the whole world will become guilty before God. This is what Paul was speaking of when he said "we establish the law"

Now the law is a permanent witness against the flesh of man.It also stands as a testimony to Gods Righteousness and the Commandment of the Father that we must come to Him by faith alone through His Son. This is "Holy Commandment" we see thoughout the New Testament.

Good morning Mitspa,

I think what you said here is all true, I just think that when we walk in the Spirit, He helps us to walk in righteousness. Occasionally, we actually do what the law says in spirit and truth. No, we wouldn't want to stand in our own righteousness, because it s stained with our unrighteousness. One of the reasons we know we aren't walking by the Spirit is when we see we've violated the Ten Commandments.

- Davies

 

[Drew]

Romans 7 is, I suggest, generally misunderstood - it is not about Paul the believer, it is about Paul as the representative of his fellow non-believing Jews who are struggling under the Law of Moses.

Romans 7 forms no part of the life of the believer.

1. The person described in Romans 7 is experiencing a "law" of sin that leads to death:

but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?

2. The Christian in Romans 8 is described as having been set free from from this law of sin and death.

2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death

3. If the position that the person in Romans 7 is a Christian is correct, - then we have the following statements:

a. The Christian is subject to the law of sin that produces death (clear statement from Romans 7)

b. The Christian is set free from the law of sin that produces death (clear statement from Romans 8)

These statements are inconsistent. Therefore, assuming we agree that the statement from Romans 8 is about the Christian, the Romans 7 cannot be descriptive of the experience of the Christian - one cannot be both subject to the effects of a law and yet also released from its effect.

 

[Mitspa]

Good morning Mitspa,

I think what you said here is all true, I just think that when we walk in the Spirit, He helps us to walk in righteousness. Occasionally, we actually do what the law says in spirit and truth. No, we wouldn't want to stand in our own righteousness, because it s stained with our unrighteousness. One of the reasons we know we aren't walking by the Spirit is when we see we've violated the Ten Commandments.

- Davies

do you keep the sabbath according to the Ten Commandments? or do you worship on the first day of the week? the day He rose from the dead?

 

[Mitspa]

Romans 7 is, I suggest, generally misunderstood - it is not about Paul the believer, it is about Paul as the representative of his fellow non-believing Jews who are struggling under the Law of Moses.

Romans 7 forms no part of the life of the believer.

1. The person described in Romans 7 is experiencing a "law" of sin that leads to death:

but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?

2. The Christian in Romans 8 is described as having been set free from from this law of sin and death.

2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death

3. If the position that the person in Romans 7 is a Christian is correct, - then we have the following statements:

a. The Christian is subject to the law of sin that produces death (clear statement from Romans 7)

b. The Christian is set free from the law of sin that produces death (clear statement from Romans 8)

These statements are inconsistent. Therefore, assuming we agree that the statement from Romans 8 is about the Christian, the Romans 7 cannot be descriptive of the experience of the Christian - one cannot be both subject to the effects of a law and yet also released from its effect.

So Paul is really not talking about himself? and the his words dont really mean what they say? I dont see how you and I could ever share the scriptures, seing how you choose the ones you want to believe and not believe! I think i will probably just ignore such post as this from now on. I am looking for honest discussions of scripture.

 

[Davies]

do you keep the sabbath according to the Ten Commandments? or do you worship on the first day of the week? the day He rose from the dead?

I think I keep the Sabbath when I rest in Jesus. It doesn't matter if I rest on Sunday or Wednesday. That is the one Commandment not reiterated, to my knowledge, in the New Testament, but I do think it is important to have a day of rest.
Romans 14:5

New King James Version (NKJV)

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.


You don't have any thoughts on my previous post? You would agree that you know you are not walking by the Spirit when you violate the Ten Commandments? Being convinced in my mind, I think I would be violating the 4th Commandment if I didn't rest in Jesus.

- Davies

 

[Mitspa]

I think I keep the Sabbath when I rest in Jesus. It doesn't matter if I rest on Sunday or Wednesday. That is the one Commandment not reiterated, to my knowledge, in the New Testament, but I do think it is important to have a day of rest.
Romans 14:5

New King James Version (NKJV)

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.


You don't have any thoughts on my previous post? You would agree that you know you are not walking by the Spirit when you violate the Ten Commandments? Being convinced in my mind, I think I would be violating the 4th Commandment if I didn't rest in Jesus.

- Davies

I only bring it up my friend, because it shows that which is "spiritual" of the commandment is much deeper than what can be seen by the "letter"? All the commandments are very deep spiritual truths. For instance no man is truly free from covetousness until the Spirit has brought him into a place where nothing of this world has value in regards to the world to come? The spiritual should grow in us, to a place where we desire to give as Christ gave, more than we desire to have.

All the commandments are but pictures and types of deep spiritual truth. Thou shalt not steal is really, give and it will be given unto you. How can a man you loves to give to others ever steal? No the letter will hinder if we try to keep the letter!

Another good example is circumcision, by the letter it is an physical act? By the Spirit it is a deep inward work to cut away of hearts from the lust of our flesh.

Do you see my points? God Bless -Mitspa

 

[smaller]

The Law, any command of God has present working authority. They are not 'dead letters' uttered long ago that no longer have meaning.

Who of us would say for example that to love God with all our heart above all else, the first command, has no meaning or applicability to us? Yet we hear NO LAW continually by the 'grace camps' falsely thinking that the FIRST COMMAND has no meaning or applicability?

Please spare me the drivel of that nonsense.

The LAW is PRIME. His Words are Spirit and Life. They can not 'pass away' any more than God Himself could pass away.

It is of uttmost importance to understand LAW, what happens where WORD is sown.

Jesus shows us the PREEMINENCE of Gods Laws and even more importantly what 'they' cause to transpire.

And though I have pointed to this simplicity many times in this thread, the fact of it quickly dissipates in DIRECT RESPONSE to 'showing the fact.'

Lawlessness in the hearts of ALL is commanded by the LAW, aroused by THE LAW and prompted by THE LAW to reveal itself. It is as solid of an operational working principle of Spiritual fact that there is.

For any who missed the point, they will keep missing the point because of what the LAW does.

The LAW prompts a response from the TEMPTER within the heart and mind. No man can stop or cease that working from transpiring in them as a DIRECT OBEDIENT RESPONSE by the working of lawlessness. It can not be done.

The WORKING of LAWLESSNESS 'obeys' in converse fashions to THE LAW.

It is the most powerful instrument there is to SHOW this matter to be a fact and to show it to be INTERNAL.

Every believer who is honest will 'see' in their own mind the workings of the TEMPTER in adverse reactions to the LAW.

The Law is in essence your personal tangible PROOF of the existence of God, by HIS LAW, working internally in your mind and heart to PROVE the adversarial reaction from the TEMPTER.

It's a simple a lesson as any believer can receive.

Here is Jesus Statement of FACT. It is a fact, and yes, it does happen to you. But if you can not SEE IT or 'sense' it, you have merely been blindsided by that working 'enemy' that God Himself fashioned and provided ENTRY into the minds and hearts of MANKIND.

Mark 4:15:
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

If you do not see this matter for yourself as a fact, even in the MIDST of TEMPTATION of the TEMPTER, you have in fact been STOLEN FROM by the CHIEF THIEF.

Pick up THE LAW in this way and you will know beyond any doubt THE POWER OF GODS WORDS of LAW.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Davies]

Do you see my points? God Bless -Mitspa

Hi Mitspa,

I do understand what you are saying, and I don't think anyone would disagree with you in that the law of God goes much deeper than what was inscribed on the two tablets. Jesus brought to light more clearly what the deeper meanings were in the Sermon on the Mount. But even at the end of His sermon, He said, 'Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect.' I believe God expects us to obey Him. This includes the Ten Commandments. This is reiterated in Jesus' summation of all the law when he boiled it down into love God with all your heart ... and love your neighbor as yourself. When you say the letter will hinder you, I agree, if you are trying to obey in order to be right with God. When we become Christians, we know that it is impossible to be perfect as our Father is perfect by obeying the law which should quickly point us back to Jesus, to the cross, where our love for Him will continually grow if we see ourselves in truth juxtaposed with what He has done for us. When I see my failures, my sins, and trust what Jesus has accomplished for me, I love Him for it, and it changes my desire to obey the law, not because I want to be right with Him, but because I am right with Him. The motivation to obey the law has changed. To obey the law to be right with God is to place myself under the law again, the law will hinder me. To have love burning within me for God will give me freedom to obey the law, even the deeper meanings of the law. This is accomplished by the Holy Spirit.

- Davies

 

[Mitspa]

Hi Mitspa,

I do understand what you are saying, and I don't think anyone would disagree with you in that the law of God goes much deeper than what was inscribed on the two tablets. Jesus brought to light more clearly what the deeper meanings were in the Sermon on the Mount. But even at the end of His sermon, He said, 'Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect.' I believe God expects us to obey Him. This includes the Ten Commandments. This is reiterated in Jesus' summation of all the law when he boiled it down into love God with all your heart ... and love your neighbor as yourself. When you say the letter will hinder you, I agree, if you are trying to obey in order to be right with God. When we become Christians, we know that it is impossible to be perfect as our Father is perfect by obeying the law which should quickly point us back to Jesus, to the cross, where our love for Him will continually grow if we see ourselves in truth juxtaposed with what He has done for us. When I see my failures, my sins, and trust what Jesus has accomplished for me, I love Him for it, and it changes my desire to obey the law, not because I want to be right with Him, but because I am right with Him. The motivation to obey the law has changed. To obey the law to be right with God is to place myself under the law again, the law will hinder me. To have love burning within me for God will give me freedom to obey the law, even the deeper meanings of the law. This is accomplished by the Holy Spirit.

- Davies

Thank you brother!

just to make sure we are on the same page?
Lets look again at the sabbath? Now if one still feels an obligation to the law of moses, they could very well miss the true sabbath as revealed in Heb 4 The eternal day and eternal rest we have in Christ Jesus is the true sabbath. One must see that Christ is the fulfillment of every commandment or else one can find that they are judging themselves and other christians by the law!

For instance, only by the unbroken love of Christ for us, can we truly love others. For all law is fulfilled in His commandment that we love each other as He loves us! Now if one is judging themselves by the letter of the law? they will find that they are caught in the trap of sin as Paul described in Rom 7. For the strength of sin, is the law. But one who is set free from the law through the death of Christ, cannot be condemned by the law! The love of Christ is always present in their hearts to love others with!
So I agree with much of what you say, but I hope you do see yourself completly free from the law of moses?
We are not lawless we have entered into new and higher laws! The law of faith, royal law, the law of Christ!
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ!

Maybe I will start a thread on these soon? lol

Also think of a wife married to a new husband, who has pictures hanging on the wall of her old dead husband? Why look to the law when we have Christ?

 

[Davies]

Mitspa,

"Also think of a wife married to a new husband, who has pictures hanging on the wall of her old dead husband? Why look to the law when we have Christ?"

Because the law of God is a reflection of His perfect nature and character. We delight in the law of the Lord.

Psalm 1:2

New King James Version (NKJV)

2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.


To have the freedom to obey the law means we have been cured of sin.



- Davies

 

[iLOVE]

There are significant differences between the Old and New Covenants. As Believers we are no longer bound by the Law, which was established in the Old Testament to make people aware of their sin and show them their need for a Savior. Jesus has fulfilled the Law and established a New Covenant that is based on grace, not the Law.

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa,

"Also think of a wife married to a new husband, who has pictures hanging on the wall of her old dead husband? Why look to the law when we have Christ?"

Because the law of God is a reflection of His perfect nature and character. We delight in the law of the Lord.

Psalm 1:2

New King James Version (NKJV)

2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord,
And in His law he meditates day and night.


To have the freedom to obey the law means we have been cured of sin.


- Davies

I have died to the law, with Christ! The law is the ministry of death and condemnation! The law is not of faith, and is the strength of sin!
Only the Spirit can know and keep the law, and that is in our hearts.

God bless-Mitspa

 

[Mitspa]

There are significant differences between the Old and New Covenants. As Believers we are no longer bound by the Law, which was established in the Old Testament to make people aware of their sin and show them their need for a Savior. Jesus has fulfilled the Law and established a New Covenant that is based on grace, not the Law.

Thank you ilove!

I hope you will post often on this thread, I think those of us who have been set free from law by His grace, can help to set others free also?

 

[smaller]

I have died to the law, with Christ! The law is the ministry of death and condemnation! The law is not of faith, and is the strength of sin!
Only the Spirit can know and keep the law, and that is in our hearts.

God bless-Mitspa

Dying to Law and keeping same via the Spirit is an interesting contemplation to say the least.

What believer steals, murders etc? Hopefully none! Yet not following Law? How is not doing same NOT following Law?

The reality of Law is that regardless what anyone thinks of the Law, it does prove that all remain subject to internal temptations prompted by the adverse reactions of indwelling sin working AGAINST the Law, which are just as illegal as the action of lawlessness within.

When believers say that never happens within them, they have merely been proven as fibbers by that same Law and dishonesty takes root therein.

s