WHY DID GOD GIVE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS?

[Mitspa]

Dying to Law and keeping same via the Spirit is an interesting contemplation to say the least.

What believer steals, murders etc? Hopefully none! Yet not following Law? How is not doing same NOT following Law?

The reality of Law is that regardless what anyone thinks of the Law, it does prove that all remain subject to internal temptations prompted by the adverse reactions of indwelling sin working AGAINST the Law, which are just as illegal as the action of lawlessness within.

When believers say that never happens within them, they have merely been proven as fibbers by that same Law and dishonesty takes root therein.

s

The reason some are still in bondage to sin, is because they are still in the flesh and under the law! For the strength of sin is the law!

I have been freed from sin by beloved Christ, who freed me from the law of sin and death!

he who is born of God cannot sin!

 

[smaller]

The reason some are still in bondage to sin, is because they are still in the flesh and under the law! For the strength of sin is the law!

I have been freed from sin by beloved Christ, who freed me from the law of sin and death!

he who is born of God cannot sin!

Ah, the old "sinless" card, only to be played on the "evil flesh" when one is forced into a corner to be semi-truthful.

What is it you don't understand about 'internal temptations' being:

A. a fact
B. a sin
C. of the tempter
D. condemned under Law in whomever it transpires (ALL)

This is not difficult to understand.

It is very difficult to 'fess up to' truthfully.

s

 

[Mitspa]

Ah, the old "sinless" card, only to be played on the "evil flesh" when one is forced into a corner to be semi-truthful.

What is it you don't understand about 'internal temptations' being:

A. a fact
B. a sin
C. of the tempter
D. condemned under Law in whomever it transpires (ALL)

This is not difficult to understand.

It is very difficult to 'fess up to' truthfully.

s

The Cross is foolish to those who are perishing! But to us who are saved is is the wisdom of God!

 

[smaller]

The Cross is foolish to those who are perishing! But to us who are saved is is the wisdom of God!

Since you take the position that 'flesh is evil' was the flesh of Jesus evil? Just asking.

As to your response, for some reason you seem to have difficulty grasping the fact of temptations, internally, being a factual sin, even same aroused as 'a fact' by the Law. I have a great deal of respect for the Law in this regards as it proves to me the validity of the text.

s

 

[Davies]

I have died to the law, with Christ! The law is the ministry of death and condemnation! The law is not of faith, and is the strength of sin!
Only the Spirit can know and keep the law, and that is in our hearts.

God bless-Mitspa

Hi Mitspa,

I'm disappointed we've found a disagreement on this issue of grace and law. I am acutely aware of what you think, and I respect your person in the matter, but I have to disagree with you if when you say that you have died to the law, then you are free to not obey it in spirit and truth. There is never a time when we are free to sin. That's exactly what the law of God does, it tells us that we sin as iLOVE pointed out. If you violate the law of God, then you simply prove that you are not walking by the Holy Spirit. I am by no means suggesting that anyone is not a Christian if they sin, just not walking in the Spirit.

Romans 7:12-13

New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
Law Cannot Save from Sin

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.



I think if we stop listening to what the law says about us, despite that we have been saved, then we shall lose the knowledge of how deep God's grace is. When I came to faith in Jesus, did I understand how sinful I was? Hardly. Through time and by God's grace, I've come to a better understanding of how sinful I am. Because of that, I have come to a better understanding of God's grace. Do I go on sinning? Do I continue to violate the very laws that required Jesus to die on the cross for our redemption?; not if I put my trust in Jesus. So, instead of looking to the law of God to be the means to have communion with God, I look to the cross, to God's grace. This is the case we have been trying to make to others on the forum. Surprisingly, I find that I desire not to sin, violate the Ten Commandments, and through the process of sanctification, I learn to walk by the Spirit of God transforming me into His image. If that is true, then I will find myself obeying the Ten Commandments by the power of the Holy Spirit. Do we still sin?; more than we know how to confess. Are we any less saved than at the first? Of course not, we have the imputed righteousness of Jesus that justifies us.


Do you know how good the law of God is? It was the law of God by which Jesus was punished for our sin. God allows no sin to go unpunished. I think I'm preaching to the choir now.


- Davies

 

[Mitspa]

Hi Mitspa,

I'm disappointed we've found a disagreement on this issue of grace and law. I am acutely aware of what you think, and I respect your person in the matter, but I have to disagree with you if when you say that you have died to the law, then you are free to not obey it in spirit and truth. There is never a time when we are free to sin. That's exactly what the law of God does, it tells us that we sin as iLOVE pointed out. If you violate the law of God, then you simply prove that you are not walking by the Holy Spirit. I am by no means suggesting that anyone is not a Christian if they sin, just not walking in the Spirit.

Romans 7:12-13

New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
Law Cannot Save from Sin

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.



I think if we stop listening to what the law says about us, despite that we have been saved, then we shall lose the knowledge of how deep God's grace is. When I came to faith in Jesus, did I understand how sinful I was? Hardly. Through time and by God's grace, I've come to a better understanding of how sinful I am. Because of that, I have come to a better understanding of God's grace. Do I go on sinning? Do I continue to violate the very laws that required Jesus to die on the cross for our redemption?; not if I put my trust in Jesus. So, instead of looking to the law of God to be the means to have communion with God, I look to the cross, to God's grace. This is the case we have been trying to make to others on the forum. Surprisingly, I find that I desire not to sin, violate the Ten Commandments, and through the process of sanctification, I learn to walk by the Spirit of God transforming me into His image. If that is true, then I will find myself obeying the Ten Commandments by the power of the Holy Spirit. Do we still sin?; more than we know how to confess. Are we any less saved than at the first? Of course not, we have the imputed righteousness of Jesus that justifies us.


Do you know how good the law of God is? It was the law of God by which Jesus was punished for our sin. God allows no sin to go unpunished. I think I'm preaching to the choir now.


- Davies

I am not sure or if we disagree on this subject? do you understand why the scriptures declare that the strength of sin is the law? that because we are not under law but under grace that we overcome sin which is in the flesh?
Now I can look the law and do not see it as others? I see that the law written in the letter is but a reflection of the Spirit within my heart. Most christians i know have no clue of this truth? They look to the law and attempt to justify themselves by it or are condemned by it. There is ONLY ONE answer to mans flesh? that is to reckon your self dead to the law, with Christ and alive with Him by the Spirit. Light is the only answer to darkness. Gods strength is the issue, not mans weakness!

I am justified by faith in Christ alone and only in His justification do I have power over sin! all else is a religious allusion!

 

[Davies]

I am not sure or if we disagree on this subject? do you understand why the scriptures declare that the strength of sin is the law? that because we are not under law but under grace that we overcome sin which is in the flesh?
Now I can look the law and do not see it as others? I see that the law written in the letter is but a reflection of the Spirit within my heart. Most christians i know have no clue of this truth? They look to the law and attempt to justify themselves by it or are condemned by it. There is ONLY ONE answer to mans flesh? that is to reckon your self dead to the law, with Christ and alive with Him by the Spirit. Light is the only answer to darkness. Gods strength is the issue, not mans weakness!

I am justified by faith in Christ alone and only in His justification do I have power over sin! all else is a religious allusion!

Mitspa,

So, is there anytime, now that you have become a Christian, where you find yourself obeying the Ten Commandments? Do you love God? Do you forsake idols? Do you speak with reverence when you say God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit. Do you love instead of hate. Do you value others instead of lusting in your heart? Are you content with what God has given rather then resorting to looking at what others have been given? If you can say yes to these, then by the Holy Spirit you are obeying God, obeying the Ten Commandments. This righteousness doesn't justify you, and we give credit to the Holy Spirit, but we should rejoice that we are no longer in captivity to sin and can humbly say God has put our feet upon a rock. What I think you have expressed to me is your sensitivity to being called righteous by what you do. I would not dis-way you from that. We should think of ourselves soberly.

- Davies

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa,

So, is there anytime, now that you have become a Christian, where you find yourself obeying the Ten Commandments? Do you love God? Do you forsake idols? Do you speak with reverence when you say God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit. Do you love instead of hate. Do you value others instead of lusting in your heart? Are you content with what God has given rather then resorting to looking at what others have been given? If you can say yes to these, then by the Holy Spirit you are obeying God, obeying the Ten Commandments. This righteousness doesn't justify you, and we give credit to the Holy Spirit, but we should rejoice that we are no longer in captivity to sin and can humbly say God has put our feet upon a rock. What I think you have expressed to me is your sensitivity to being called righteous by what you do. I would not dis-way you from that. We should think of ourselves soberly.

- Davies

I agree with every word in this post!
I will say this final point, that I thought I knew love until the Holy Spirit showed me real love, The love Christ has for us, cannot be spoken or written in a way that man can understand. I have but been splashed by the mist from a endless ocean. The deepest motives of obedience to our God can only be from the foundation of faith and based on His love for us. Until one looks to Christ and His Love, one will never know the true spiritual meaning of the law. The graestest motives for obedience, come when His Love is a growing truth in our hearts. One will laugh at the thought of serving God by fear or duty, when love is the law of ones heart! God bless - Mitspa

 

[Mitspa]

I agree with every word in this post!
I will say this final point, that I thought I knew love until the Holy Spirit showed me real love, The love Christ has for us, cannot be spoken or written in a way that man can understand. I have but been splashed by the mist from a endless ocean. The deepest motives of obedience to our God can only be from the foundation of faith and based on His love for us. Until one looks to Christ and His Love, one will never know the true spiritual meaning of the law. The graestest motives for obedience, come when His Love is a growing truth in our hearts. One will laugh at the thought of serving God by fear or duty, when love is the law of ones heart! God bless - Mitspa

You know keeping the 10 commandments is like many things in the Kingdom of God? You have to reverse the natural order into a new order? One must become weak to be made strong, a fool to be made wise, the least becomes the greatest, the poor are made rich! The law is the same one must be sure they cannot keep it to keep it?

No one can keep the law by looking to the law! One must look to Christ and His love for us to love as the law demands!

Keeping the law is very easy for the weak? For we depend upon His love for us, by which we then love that which He loves, with His love!

Great is the mystery of Godliness! To those who have ears to hear? This is My Beloved Son, hear HIM!

 

[Deborah13]

You know keeping the 10 commandments is like many things in the Kingdom of God? You have to reverse the natural order into a new order? One must become weak to be made strong, a fool to be made wise, the least becomes the greatest, the poor are made rich! The law is the same one must be sure they cannot keep it to keep it?

No one can keep the law by looking to the law! One must look to Christ and His love for us to love as the law demands!

Keeping the law is very easy for the weak? For we depend upon His love for us, by which we then love that which He loves, with His love!

Great is the mystery of Godliness! To those who have ears to hear? This is My Beloved Son, hear HIM!

Mitspa and Davies, I was ready to leave for the night but so glad I read your posts.
I enjoyed all your posts to each other. Christ's love and the Spirit of God spoke loudly from both of your dear hearts. Thank you.
I pray that many others can understand what you are saying in that last post Mitspa. These are life transforming revelations. God Bless and Keep you both.

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa and Davies, I was ready to leave for the night but so glad I read your posts.
I enjoyed all your posts to each other. Christ's love and the Spirit of God spoke loudly from both of your dear hearts. Thank you.
I pray that many others can understand what you are saying in that last post Mitspa. These are life transforming revelations. God Bless and Keep you both.

Thank you sister!
May our God increase His Grace and Love upon you and my brother Davies!

 

[Davies]

Hi Deborah13,

I replied last night, but must have forgot to hit the post button. Thank you for your kind words. I have enjoyed what Mitspa has shared. Even if we saw or said things a little different, it was nice to express our thoughts without giving each other a 1-2 punch. Mitspa is providing food for thought, and an opportunity to examine our beliefs based on Scripture. I find the thread encouraging.

Thanks brother Mitspa,

- Davies

 

[Mitspa]

Hi Deborah13,

I replied last night, but must have forgot to hit the post button. Thank you for your kind words. I have enjoyed what Mitspa has shared. Even if we saw or said things a little different, it was nice to express our thoughts without giving each other a 1-2 punch. Mitspa is providing food for thought, and an opportunity to examine our beliefs based on Scripture. I find the thread encouraging.

Thanks brother Mitspa,

- Davies

Thank you my beloved brother is Christ!

I hope you will meditate on these things, and of course pray upon the truths I have tried to express.

I have found the Cross the answer to many of my own doubts about Gods will. I have a great secret to overcoming the flesh, I would be glad to share with you? But first ask yourself why it seems so hard to love at the depths of Christs love?

I ask the Lord to show me why I could only love to a certain level? He showed me the Power of His Cross to actually drive out the great lie that the flesh holds?

I hope I dont seem as some to speak from pride? I believe that their is a great boldness that comes upon a crucified man in Christ!

To be a righteous son of God! one so simple as I? God Bless and keep you - Mitspa

 

[Mitspa]

Rom 3:19

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


Gal 3:10

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12

And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.



Gal 3:22

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

I find it really hard to understand how satan has so blinded much of the "church" It seems so few understand what is so clear?

2 Cor 3 Declares that even until this day when the Old Testament is read that a veil lies on the heart of all who look to the Law of moses!

The reason some cannot see by faith that Christ Alone fulfilled the law. is because the flesh and satan (the god of this age) has blinded their hearts and minds.

How can any honest man claim that they keep the law?
No honest man does, but an honest man will turn to the SAVIOR!

 

[smaller]

2 Cor 3 Declares that even until this day when the Old Testament is read that a veil lies on the heart of all who look to the Law of moses!

The reason some cannot see by faith that Christ Alone fulfilled the law. is because the flesh and satan (the god of this age) has blinded their hearts and minds.

How can any honest man claim that they keep the law?
No honest man does, but an honest man will turn to the SAVIOR!

Here is 'law keeping:'

Romans 13:
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Only Jesus did this? Paul states it is US who are to do this as well, by His Spirit in us:

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

To understand the Law is to understand it is SPIRITUAL.

A carnal mind can not read it or perceive THE LAW as anything but jots, tittles and death, when in fact it is LIFE and SPIRITUAL.

Take all 613 LAWS of the Old Testament. What do they all mean?

LOVE your neighbor as yourself. This is the LAW of the TEMPLE, your BODY.

And every carnal mind will say, NAY, that is NOT the Law, the Law is everything BUT that!

Every lawbreaker will end up doing THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

The evidence that they do not do so is written across their own lips. Yet they neither see nor perceive that they are LAWBREAKERS.

Cursed not by the LAW, but by what they carry in their own dark hearts that was harpooned and brought to the surface by the HOOK of Gods Laws.

Do you see casting aside the LAW?

We are in fact built on that foundation. The LAW came by the Prophets.

Ephesians 2:

Ephesians 2:
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

No sane person kicks out the foundation of their house.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

1 John 2:9
He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1 John 2:11
But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

s

 

[Mitspa]

Here is 'law keeping:'

Romans 13:
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Only Jesus did this? Paul states it is US who are to do this as well, by His Spirit in us:

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Isaiah 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

To understand the Law is to understand it is SPIRITUAL.

A carnal mind can not read it or perceive THE LAW as anything but jots, tittles and death, when in fact it is LIFE and SPIRITUAL.

Take all 613 LAWS of the Old Testament. What do they all mean?

LOVE your neighbor as yourself. This is the LAW of the TEMPLE, your BODY.

And every carnal mind will say, NAY, that is NOT the Law, the Law is everything BUT that!

Every lawbreaker will end up doing THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

The evidence that they do not do so is written across their own lips. Yet they neither see nor perceive that they are LAWBREAKERS.

Cursed not by the LAW, but by what they carry in their own dark hearts that was harpooned and brought to the surface by the HOOK of Gods Laws.

Do you see casting aside the LAW?

We are in fact built on that foundation. The LAW came by the Prophets.

Ephesians 2:

Ephesians 2:
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

No sane person kicks out the foundation of their house.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

1 John 2:9
He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1 John 2:11
But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

s

Your getting closer and closer! But still you will have to look away from moses for a season to understand the fullness of what it means to love as He loves?

Why do you think that moses and elias had to disappear on the Mt of transfiguration?

THE FATHER WAS VERY CLEAR! "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM!

when you see and hear Christ alone, you will understand how the mystery of God likess works!

 

[smaller]

Your getting closer and closer! But still you will have to look away from moses for a season to understand the fullness of what it means to love as He loves?

Why do you think that moses and elias had to disappear on the Mt of transfiguration?

THE FATHER WAS VERY CLEAR! "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM!

when you see and hear Christ alone, you will understand how the mystery of God likess works!

Look away from Gods Words?

Why?

Quite a ridiculous premise.

I would certainly look away from false understandings of them.

You can conjure up whatever sight you think you have of THE LAW OF MOSES and say 'this is only what it is' and I will still look to Paul's FACTs about EVERY COMMAND to see what they really are.

No lawless one cares much for LAW and will seek to cast it aside quickly.

You cite 'THIS IS MY BELOVED SON, HEAR HIM' yet you do not SEE or HEAR it was HIS BELOVED SON that SPOKE LAW?

The Son said that man shall live by how many Words of God?

Every.

If you hear no life in those Words you don't like or can not tolerate, I might suggest a closer listen.

If your claim is that Gods Spirit is in you, then so is EVERY WORD of God. God does not reject His Own Word. Not a jot or a tittle.

Proverbs 1:23
Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

s

 

[smaller]

Proverbs 28:9
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Isaiah 42:21
The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Jeremiah 6:19
Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

John 3:33
He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

Psalm 78:
1 Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Hosea 12:10
I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Matthew 13:34
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Luke 8:11
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

s

 

[Mitspa]

Proverbs 28:9
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Isaiah 42:21
The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Jeremiah 6:19
Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.

John 3:33
He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

Psalm 78:
1 Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Hosea 12:10
I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Matthew 13:34
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Luke 8:11
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

s

This is My Commandment? That you love as I have loved you!

He who is forgiven much, loves much!

We can only keep the law by love!
We can only love with the Love He has for us!

We cannot see His love until we see His forgiveness!

thats why its called a mystery and walking in the spirit!
the natural mind cannot understand the ways of God! You must become a fool to be made wise, weak to be made strong!

Gods not mad at you smaller! Christ has bore the wrath of God for you and me! Only I believe, you look to law, which is not FAITH! THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH!

ALL ELSE IS JUST RELIGIOUS NONSENSE!

 

[smaller]

We can only keep the law by love!

Singing a new tune now? heh heh

Yer a pretty funny dude. One minute nay, the next minute yea

Gods not mad at you smaller!

What in the world are you even talking about?

Christ has bore the wrath of God for you and me! Only I believe, you look to law, which is not FAITH! THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH!

You can bless your darkness all the live long day and claim you are all, only and ever light, all the while running away from GODS LAW as fast as you possibly can.

I will remain apart from those measures because they are not truthful.

s