Good morning smaller,
I appreciate Mitspa's position. I think where the confusion lies in our communication is between initial sanctification and progressive sanctification. I'm willing to admit that I loose site of the cross often. I have a temper. I have Irish blood, what do you expect (God remembers that we are just dust).
I'm not trying to suggest that we follow the law of God to be right with Him.
The issues will always be, as in many terms, just what is the Law?
There are many false understandings of same. And to these, most of us would probably be in disagreement.
I have laid out the simplest case that the Law is in fact spiritual and followed spiritually as defined by Paul in Romans 7, showing the Law to be spiritual, and that the believers themselves DO IN FACT follow the LAW as Paul again easily lays out in Romans 13:8-10.
I do not say however that is the only working of the Law. The Law will also reveal the fact that we 'have sin.' Paul shows us this matter as well. And in the walk of spiritual fulfillment, we basically 'stay on top' of that working, but we can not say 'we do not have' that working. That is the path of the 'present' reign over sin.
One can sit in the pew on any given day and 'still have sin.' So how 'legal' is that exercise? It is quite pointless to ignore the facts of having same by any measure of understandings.
We are not to 'let' sin reign in our mortal bodies, but it is there regardless. I am not apt to paint my way past that fact by fanciful imaginations.
While I may consider my reign over that matter is found in Romans 13:8-10, I would also say that the presence of sin continually works in the opposite or opposing direction, simultaneously. It is quite pointless then to see myself 'legally obedient' to the 'letter' by sitting in the pew on any given day, but to live life in His Love in understanding, for myself and unto others.
I say it, but because I say the law is spiritual, good, and holy, the reaction is, 'I'm looking to the law or putting myself under the law.' I agree with Mitspa and Eventide that Jesus is my righteousness by which I will be able to stand before Jesus in Heaven.
They can decry the law all they please. I am saying they are merely holding up 'false understandings' of that LAW and deriding THAT. Nothing more. There is nothing 'wrong' with the LAW.
The only issue is our understandings of same.
Paul would not stand on his own righteousness, because at the end of his life, he knew he was the chief of sinners.
I have stated the facts of Paul's own statements often at this board.
Paul factually was 'the chief of sinners,' described himself as 'nothing,' had a 'devil' in his flesh and 'evil present' with him.
I rather enjoy his truthful presentations. We all seem to run away rather quickly from his sights when we have to take them 'personally' don't we?
Believers can jump and shout all the day long about how they are 'only the good and righteous and perfect' under Gods Words, but Paul did NOT present that understanding whatsoever for himself.
To me such are merely practicing various forms of self delusions.
Stand up next to Paul and take your measures as he did for himself.
Though Paul's view of himself was worse than from the beginning, because he did not shy away from the law of God, but loved it,
I agree. I am quite in Love with Gods Words. All of them. Even what may appear to be bad to others will appear as life for me. It's only a matter of perspective.
Jesus quite clearly told us that 'man' will LIVE by every Word of God. I happen to believe Him. (Luke 4:4)
But one does have to stand 'honestly' under same to reach that conclusion. Otherwise we fall into selective subjectivity, only wanting 'all the good Words' and totally ignoring all 'the bad Words.'
There is in fact a DIVISION to be had therein to find understandings.
he was able to give himself more freely and trust God more, more than we do. Though the law of God kills a person spiritually, that is not true for the Christian, because they are made alive by the Spirit.
I would simply say to such that
no amount of glossy paint would have blessed the 'evil present' or the 'devil' in Paul's flesh.
What applied to Paul on the good side of the ledgers did exactly zero or the opposite with the 'other working.'
In this again, there is a factual division that Paul shows us from his indwelling sin. I totally object to painting up the entirety of ourselves with only GOOD PAINT as it does not work or harmonize.
The Word of God did in fact SLICE PAUL right down the middle. On one hand was a child of God. On the other hand, the fact of evil present and even a devil.
Paul himself was turned from the power of Satan. He 'reigned' over that power, but NEVER did he present that he was no longer subject to the workings of the deceiver 'in his mind and body.'
And neither are any of us.
So, what does the law of God mean to us now that we are Christians? It shows us where we are at in our progressive sanctification. It keeps us from thinking more of ourselves than we ought to. It shows us a deeper understanding of the love of God because we have to depend on Him to forgive us. Our struggle with sin is life long just as it was for Paul, and John. I'm no longer under condemnation because my faith and trust are in Jesus, with much thanks to God who used His law to bring me to Him and by which He will keep me close to Him by the fear of God. The law of God is a restraining force to the believer. I'm not saying we are justified by what we do, I'm just trying to describe the sanctification process. I can be thick headed, so if you see flaws in my thinking or think I have flaws in my thinking,
may I suggest using a cools shade of blue in your posts?
We can sanctify and progress all we please. That does NOT address 'whom' the LAW is against and will ever be against.
The Law remains against the presence of indwelling sin and evil present within any of us and yes, we ALL down to the last one of us have that problem.
It is not going away by dancing around shouting halleluiah.
We all are called to walk in DIVISION, not denial of the obvious.
s
