Why Do Christians Argue Against Works?

[Hopeful]

Ok, I suppose I was confused by your quote to Rogerg…”Hearing, and believing are "works" if you are intent on holding to that false doctrine that relieves you of any responsibility for yourself.”

Ok, I suppose I was confused by your quote to Rogerg…”Hearing, and believing are "works" if you are intent on holding to that false doctrine that relieves you of any responsibility for yourself.”

The key word there was "if".
"If" one believes they have no part in their own salvation, it is because they think hearing, believing, repentance, etc., are works of the Law.
They aren't.
But circumcision and dietary restrictions are, and those were the Lawful things Paul wrote against.

 

[Hopeful]

Really? So, who is the Saviour you or God- it has to be one or the other? Based upon your reply,
it appears you think you are: if you believe any of your actions can invoke salvation, then you
place yourself into the role of savior.

It is God that saves...if we follow Him.
God won't save anyone who won't submit to Him.

 

[Hopeful]

If we must choose to believe, then believing becomes our work.

It is your version of works that separates our POVs.
Again, it was the "works" of the Law that Paul wrote against.

 

[Hopeful]

Paul was rebuking his fellow Jews, as well as his former self, of seeking to be righteous with God by works of the body only, without regard for inward faith and purity.

Got a scripture for that?
The works Paul refuted were the works of the Law...circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, etc.
It is written...

1. Romans 3:27
   Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
2. Romans 9:32
   Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
3. Galatians 2:16
   Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
4. Galatians 3:2
   This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
5. Galatians 3:5
   He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6. Galatians 3:10
   For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

James was rebuking Christians for thinking faith alone without any doing of the truth was acceptable to God.

Agreed

Hearing and agreeing with God is no better than the devils that know He is God, but do not His will.

Agreed.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Don't understand your question - what does it relate to? If you are asking me if I'm saved the answer is, well, I'm not sure, so I don't know of the two you mentioned which I fall under.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I appreciate your honesty, but what it relates to is: how can someone who doesn't even know how to answer a simple and most important question about themselves, whom they see daily in the mirror, possibility declare the truth about God whom they have not seen, neither about the doctrine of Jesus Christ whom they do not know?

Do you not understand that all you're doing is making 'scriptural' arguments against becoming righteous sons of God with pure hearts?

Generally speaking, though, those whom God has saved cannot sin spiritually speaking,

Spiritual sin is lusting in the heart to sin:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Matthew 5)

Within the heart is where all sin against God begins:

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. (Ezek 28)

Sin can only be imputed by the law to those under law: those saved are no longer under it. If you are asking me if I'm saved the answer is, well, I'm not sure, so I don't know of the two you mentioned which I fall under. Please read the following regarding law and sin. There is much more in the Bible regarding it.

[1Co 15:55-56 KJV]
55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

[Gal 5:18 KJV] 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

[Rom 6:14 KJV] 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

[Rom 5:13 KJV] 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

[1Jo 3:9 KJV] 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Are you saying that those saved are not under the law of God, and so cannot be judged for transgressing it, while unbelievers are still under the law and judged by it, even if a Christian commits the same acts of sin as they?

To become saved is to become free being judged by the law of God, even if we transgress it?

It's not sin and transgression against the law we are washed and saved from, but we are saved from the law itself?

It's not sin and the devil we are delivered from, but the law of God that condemns sin and the devil?

Sin and the devil is not our real enemy, but the law of God is?

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (Gen 3)

You see, how it relates is this: a saved and regenerated saint in Christ Jesus would never even think of such a thing, much less preach it for doctrine of Christ.

Your argument is not against sinning and transgressing the law of Christ, but is against His law and being judged by Him.

Saints and sinners alike are equally judged by Jesus Christ according to His law and word:

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.(2 Tim 4)

Being saved from the law and righteous judgment of God is a fable. We are washed and saved from lust to sin against God and His law.

The law of God by Moses was done away at the cross. Now the law of God is by Christ through His apostles.

And, transgressing the law of Christ is now counted by God as more evil than them that transgressed the law of Moses:

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

When Scripture says that them receiving Christ and being born of God cannot sin, God is declaring that His sons cannot sin like sinners of the world, and remain His sons: they cannot and don't do it.

What Scripture says is impossible, is that any man can be sinning against God and be born of God at the same time.

Only those not sinning against God cannot be judged as sinners: they are therefore the only ones that now have no condemnation for sinning.

And only Jesus Christ purifying the soul of lust for sin within the heart, can make men free in deed and in truth, From sinning and judgement for sinning.

I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.

I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.

Righteous saints in Christ Jesus are made like Jesus: they don't want to be freed from the law, so that they can break the law without being judged by it. They want to so love the law within the heart, like Jesus Himself, that they do it freely without sinning against it.

Being Scripturally free from the law, is being free from transgressing the law, so that there is now no condemnation for doing so.

It is not being free from the righteous judgement of the law, while still going on in sins and trespasses against God:

But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses. (Psalms 68)

 

[crossnote]

The key word there was "if".
"If" one believes they have no part in their own salvation, it is because they think hearing, believing, repentance, etc., are works of the Law.
They aren't.
But circumcision and dietary restrictions are, and those were the Lawful things Paul wrote against.

Ok, I would say we do have a part (repentance/faith etc) but only because God has already begun a work in us of conviction/illumination etc.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Got a scripture for that?
The works Paul refuted were the works of the Law...circumcision, dietary rules, sabbath keeping, feast keeping, tithing, etc.
It is written...

1. Romans 3:27
   Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
2. Romans 9:32
   Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
3. Galatians 2:16
   Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
4. Galatians 3:2
   This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
5. Galatians 3:5
   He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6. Galatians 3:10
   For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Agreed

Agreed.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone. (Rom 9)

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. (Rom 10)

Scripture rebukes any works of any law, including Christ's own law, that are done without pure faith from the heart: they are outward and bodily only.

Seeking to do the righteousness of God without first believing and being purified by Christ, is vanity and unjustified of God.

Paul was also declaring that no Christian can possibly be justified in outward circumcision, as by law, since it is no more law of Christ to do so.

The Galatians were bewitched into a zeal of faith for certain works, that are no longer commanded by law of God.

It's the same for Sabbath keepers, who do so as by law, and not only by personal free will of faith.

Timothy was circumcised, not as by law, but freely for the sake of ministry to the Jews.

So, whether any man seeks to please God by works without faith, or seeks to please God by works of faith in a false law, they are both unpleasing and unjustified with God.

The one seeks to boast of their own works without faith, and the other seeks to boast of their own law with decieved faith.

The main lesson to learn from the Galatians, is not that the law of Moses is evil, but that anything not done by the faith of Jesus is sin.

As by law has two parts:

1. Doing anything as by law of Christ, and it is not written as such by His apostles, which includes circumcision, Sabbath keeping, foods, drinks, linens, etc...

2. Doing any law, including that of Christ, only because it is law, so as to avoid being punished by it, not because of faith in and love for the law from the heart:

I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love. I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love. (Ps 119)

Many unbelieving sinners are neighborly, but not justified by Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

Ok, I would say we do have a part (repentance/faith etc) but only because God has already begun a work in us of conviction/illumination etc.

Good.
We do indeed have a part, which gets under the skin of some sects' beliefs.
The entire argument is built on the misidentification of the "works" in question.
I (and Paul) say they were the works of the Law, while others want to include everything from hearing and believing to repentance of sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

 

[crossnote]

Good.
We do indeed have a part, which gets under the skin of some sects' beliefs.
The entire argument is built on the misidentification of the "works" in question.
I (and Paul) say they were the works of the Law, while others want to include everything from hearing and believing to repentance of sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Terms are important.
For me works are anything we do 'from the flesh' , 'in our own strength', whereas grace is that which is the result of God's Work, both of redemption and in sanctification.

 

[Hopeful]

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone. (Rom 9)

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. (Rom 10)

Scripture rebukes any works of any law, including Christ's own law, that are done without pure faith from the heart: they are outward and bodily only.

Seeking to do the righteousness of God without first believing and being purified by Christ, is vanity and unjustified of God.

Paul was also declaring that no Christian can possibly be justified in outward circumcision, as by law, since it is no more law of Christ to do so.

The Galatians were bewitched into a zeal of faith for certain works, that are no longer commanded by law of God.

It's the same for Sabbath keepers, who do so as by law, and not only by personal free will of faith.

Timothy was circumcised, not as by law, but freely for the sake of ministry to the Jews.

So, whether any man seeks to please God by works without faith, or seeks to please God by works of faith in a false law, they are both unpleasing and unjustified with God.

The one seeks to boast of their own works without faith, and the other seeks to boast of their own law with decieved faith.

The main lesson to learn from the Galatians, is not that the law of Moses is evil, but that anything not done by the faith of Jesus is sin.

As by law has two parts:

1. Doing anything as by law of Christ, and it is not written as such by His apostles, which includes circumcision, Sabbath keeping, foods, drinks, linens, etc...

2. Doing any law, including that of Christ, only because it is law, so as to avoid being punished by it, not because of faith in and love for the law from the heart:

I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love. I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love. (Ps 119)

Many unbelieving sinners are neighborly, but not justified by Christ.

You've got the gist of it, (though with far more words. LOL).

 

[Hopeful]

Terms are important.
For me works are anything we do 'from the flesh' , 'in our own strength', whereas grace is that which is the result of God's Work, both of redemption and in sanctification.

I, myself, will stick to Paul's definitions of the works he wrote against.
The Law's works.
And the Law's works are indeed "from the flesh".
It is by God's grace that we can hear, believe, turn from sin, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and ultimately, endure faithfully till the end.

 

[crossnote]

I, myself, will stick to Paul's definitions of the works he wrote against.
The Law's works.
And the Law's works are indeed "from the flesh".
It is by God's grace that we can hear, believe, turn from sin, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and ultimately, endure faithfully till the end.

Sola Scriptura,
Solus Christus,
Sola Gratia,
Sola Fide,
Soli Deo gloria

 

[RBDERRICK]

Terms are important.
For me works are anything we do 'from the flesh' , 'in our own strength', whereas grace is that which is the result of God's Work, both of redemption and in sanctification.

Exactly. The important term is 'of', as in being produced by and so is 'of':

Works of the law and works of the flesh are works produced and owned by the law and the flesh, not produced by faith, which would be works of faith.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That which is born of the law and of the flesh is law and flesh only; and that which is born of the Spirit and of faith is Spiritual works of faith.

Faith only without works, is faith with no works of faith, which is as God with no work of God:

For with God nothing shall be impossible.

 

[rogerg]

I appreciate your honesty, but what it relates to is: how can someone who doesn't even know how to answer a simple and most important question about themselves, whom they see daily in the mirror, possibility declare the truth about God whom they have not seen, neither about the doctrine of Jesus Christ whom they do not know?

[Mat 7:22-23 KJV] 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I do not declare the truth I declare what the Bible says is the truth. If you looked, you would have seen that each of my posts referenced verses of the Bible as their foundation, from which, my conclusions were drawn. If I've mis-interpreted them, point out my error from the Bible - I am always happy to learn. I understand your point though: that to be able to correctly explain the gospel, one must first be saved, so I'll leave it to you to determine whether my comments are based solely upon Christ as Saviour or not as Christ is the gospel.

Just believing you're saved, doesn't mean that you are. Those who follow a gospel of works they believe they are, but the Bible informs otherwise:

[Tit 1:16 KJV] 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Do you not understand that all you're doing is making 'scriptural' arguments against becoming righteous sons of God with pure hearts?

I think it is you who doesn't understand. Righteousness comes from being saved; it doesn't lead to being saved.
Until saved, and left to its own, the heart is wicked. Righteousness is only obtained as a gift through/from/by Christ.

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

[Rom 3:20-22 KJV]
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Spiritual sin is lusting in the heart to sin:

Spiritual sin is in trying to self-justify ourselves before God by our works, which we all believe in doing before becoming saved. So, how is it possible for a corrupted heart change itself?

Are you saying that those saved are not under the law of God, and so cannot be judged for transgressing it, while unbelievers are still under the law and judged by it, even if a Christian commits the same acts of sin as they?

To become saved is to become free being judged by the law of God, even if we transgress it?

Yes, those saved have been completely forgiven of all sin, past, present, future, through that which Christ has achieved, not though what they might try to achieve - that is what makes Him the Saviour. If Christ is the solution for the forgiveness of all sin, then not trusting in Christ is sin. Those saved have been made a new person in Christ Jesus: they have been given a renewed mind by the Holy Spirit by which they seek from the heart (not by the letter), to follow God's moral laws, however, no one (besides Christ) can follow them perfectly. There is no spiritual efficacy found in following a law because it is a law - the desire must come from the heart, or it is meaningless in God's eyes. For the
heart to be changed, one must first become saved.
The main difference to what you and I are saying is that you believe the following of moral law leads to salvation, I believe that salvation leads to a desire to follow the moral law.

It's not sin and transgression against the law we are washed and saved from, but we are saved from the law itself?

Yes, those saved have been saved from the condemnation of the law, did you not read the verses I provided in my prior post to you?

[Col 2:13-14 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

It's not sin and the devil we are delivered from, but the law of God that condemns sin and the devil?

Sin and the devil is not our real enemy, but the law of God is?

The devil uses the law to blind and ensnare us. The law isn't sin, but the devil uses it to coerce us through our desire to self-justify ourselves by our trying to satisfy the law through our own works:

[Rom 7:11-14 KJV]
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Sin and the devil is not our real enemy, but the law of God is?

No, the law isn't the enemy, the desire for self-justification in trying to achieve salvation by law is - that is the deception of the devil. Through Christ there are only two laws in God's eyes that affects one's salvation: the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, and the law of sin and death. Notice below that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus itself made Paul free from the law of sin and death, that law being nothing whatsoever Paul himself had achieved.

[Rom 8:1-3 KJV]
1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

At this point it seems we're starting to go in circles with the same point being reraised, so for the
time being at least, unless you want to bring something new into the discussion, I'll assume my reply has already
pretty much covered it and can be applied to the remaining of your post. Remember, Christ is the Saviour.

 

[rogerg]

It is God that saves...if we follow Him.
God won't save anyone who won't submit to Him.

In order to follow Him, we have to already have been saved: through the wisdom of unsaved man, things spiritual cannot be known by unsaved man. In other words, first saved, and from that comes spiritual knowledge and wisdom.

[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, those saved have been completely forgiven of all sin, past, present, future,

Hold it right there...
If we are what some call saved, (I call it converted, as salvation isn't assured till the day of judgement), any further sin shows one is still a son of the devil and was never converted to begin with.
It shows the initial repentance from sin was a lie to God.
Liars will not inherit eternal life.
We can only be washed of past sins.

through that which Christ has achieved, not though what they might try to achieve - that is what makes Him the Saviour. If Christ is the solution for the forgiveness of all sin, then not trusting in Christ is sin. Those saved have been made a new person in Christ Jesus: they have been given a renewed mind by the Holy Spirit by which they seek from the heart (not by the letter), to follow God's moral laws, however, no one (besides Christ) can follow them perfectly.

If we can't follow them perfectly, we have not cast off the flesh with the affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), and we are not Christ's.
Truth is, we can follow them perfectly, and by "them" I mean...Love God with all your might and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
I mean, really, the old sinner-man has been killed and a new creature has taken its place.
Why would it repeat the same mistakes that lead to a second death?
It has been reborn of God's perfect seed, and cannot bring forth evil/devilish fruit.

I call that "future sin" doctrine an accommodation for sin.

There is no spiritual efficacy found in following a law because it is a law - the desire must come from the heart, or it is meaningless in God's eyes. For the
heart to be changed, one must first become saved.
The main difference to what you and I are saying is that you believe the following of moral law leads to salvation, I believe that salvation leads to a desire to follow the moral law.

The difference is, that you feel you have something already that depends on a future judgement.
It is written..."For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." (Rom 8:24-25)
Those who say they are already saved have hope in a doctrine.
They think they already "have it".

 

[rogerg]

The difference is, that you feel you have something already that depends on a future judgement.
It is written..."For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." (Rom 8:24-25)
Those who say they are already saved have hope in a doctrine.
They think they already "have it".

Not dependent upon a future judgment. It is dependent upon Christ and that He has already been judged on our behalf, found guilty, and suffered a punishment that should have been ours to endure.
I'm not sure I follow your point. If you mean that no one becomes saved spiritually during this life, I would disagree.
In the Bible, salvation is revealed in two distinct parts: 1) given (not earned) positionally/spiritually to someone during their life, and 2) the bodily manifestation of salvation which is given at the end of time to those, and only to those to whom it had been previously given spiritually (#1)

[Gal 5:24 KJV]
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

[Eph 1:7 KJV]
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

[Eph 4:30 KJV]
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

[Col 2:11 KJV] 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

[Col 2:13 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

[Rom 8:1-2 KJV]
1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Notice the "now" in Romans 8:1. For those whom Christ has brought to himself, there is NOW no longer any condemnation upon them. It is only through, and by Christ that it is given and not because of anything someone may or may not do.

[Rom 7:4-6 KJV]
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

 

[crossnote]

Faith only without works, is faith with no works of faith, which is as God with no work of God:

True faith without works is just as impossible as true works without faith.

 

[Hopeful]

Not dependent upon a future judgment. It is dependent upon Christ and that He has already been judged on our behalf, found guilty, and suffered a punishment that should have been ours to endure.

It is written..."For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Cor 5:10)
There is a day of judgement coming, and the guilty shall be penalized.
Jesus did take the punishment for our sins, but if you keep sinning He has yet to take them.
You are on your own then.

I'm not sure I follow your point. If you mean that no one becomes saved spiritually during this life, I would disagree.

Nobody can count themselves saved until God finds their name in the book of life.
We may consider ourselves converted, sanctified, justified, and reborn, but if on the day of judgement we are found to be just another sinner, it is off to the lake of fire.
Like Jesus said..."Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matt 7:21)

In the Bible, salvation is revealed in two distinct parts: 1) given (not earned) positionally/spiritually to someone during their life, and 2) the bodily manifestation of salvation which is given at the end of time to those, and only to those to whom it had been previously given spiritually (#1)

As you have written..."the bodily manifestation of salvation which is given at the end of time".
It is still in the future, regardless of man's philosophy.

[Gal 5:24 KJV]
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
[Eph 1:7 KJV]
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
[Eph 4:30 KJV]
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
[Col 2:11 KJV] 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[Col 2:13 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[Rom 8:1-2 KJV]
1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Notice the "now" in Romans 8:1. For those whom Christ has brought to himself, there is NOW no longer any condemnation upon them. It is only through, and by Christ that it is given and not because of anything someone may or may not do.

[Rom 7:4-6 KJV]
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

Great verses.
But none of them say the battle for our souls is over.

 

[RBDERRICK]

True faith without works is just as impossible as true works without faith.

Well said. I like that. Sometimes it just takes the right way of putting things to confirm what we already know is written in Scripture: both Paul and James are glad someone finally gets it.

It would make a good wall mount.

Of course, if there weren't people try to twist Scripture around, then it wouldn't be necessary to do so.

I believe God has His word written with plenty of ways to be manipulated from what it plainly seen, so that them who want to do so will expose themselves.

And yet, there is always a couple of verses that just say the truth outright: Them born of God cannot sin, so that them sinning cannot be born of God.

Simple.