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Why Do Christians Argue Against Works?

It is written..."For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2 Cor 5:10)
There is a day of judgement coming, and the guilty shall be penalized.
Jesus did take the punishment for our sins, but if you keep sinning He has yet to take them.
You are on your own then.

For those who become saved in this life, neither eternal judgment nor death cannot be levied against them:

[Rev 20:6 KJV] 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Those saved HAVE been given eternal life: "eternal" meaning it is forever and cannot be lost.

[Jhn 6:47 KJV] 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

[1Jo 5:13 KJV]
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

[Act 13:48 KJV]
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Nobody can count themselves saved until God finds their name in the book of life.
God wrote their names into the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world. At that time, God chose who is to be saved and who isn't to be saved-- He doesn't need to find them in a book to know whose who -- they who are in it, and they alone, become saved. No action or work required by the recipients - all God's work. This isn't intended to be general treatise on the books of life but suffice it to say that there are two books involved not one: the book of life, and the Lamb's book of life. The names that God has written into the Lamb's book of life are the ones that God causes to "overcometh", and which determines the names not to be blotted out of the book of life: all other names will be blotted out.

[Psa 69:28 KJV] 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

[Rev 17:8 KJV] 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[Rev 13:8 KJV] 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

We may consider ourselves converted, sanctified, justified, and reborn, but if on the day of judgement we are found to be just another sinner, it is off to the lake of fire.
Like Jesus said..."Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matt 7:21)
I agree with this but nevertheless, regardless of what we may believe about our own spiritual state, whether correct or not, there are certain people whom God chose to salvation, and without question, they, and they alone, will be those who are saved. God is the Saviour. With God as Saviour, we neither can make ourselves saved nor make ourselves unsaved.
As you have written..."the bodily manifestation of salvation which is given at the end of time".
It is still in the future, regardless of man's philosophy.
Yes, bodily realization is to be manifested at a future time, but those who are to receive it have already been chosen through/by God's prerogative as Lord, and Saviour -- those who were His good pleasure to save.
 
Great verses.
But none of them say the battle for our souls is over.

Depends on what you mean by "battle for souls"? The victory was won by Christ, that is why is has the tittle of Saviour

[1Co 15:57 KJV] 57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Ok, I would say we do have a part (repentance/faith etc) but only because God has already begun a work in us of conviction/illumination etc.
'Illumination' and conviction is the work of God already begun upon the minds of all men by the cross, so that the Spirit is already poured out upon all flesh: Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, so that God is commanding and drawing all men to repent.

Conviction is not for Christians only, but is the grace of God upon all men to repent and believe His gospel.

The good work of Christ has already begun upon all men, who are already being convicted by the Spirit, and are all 'illuminated' to it by the hearing of the gospel, But the good work of making us sons only begins, when we repent and receive Him, which is not passive but active spiritual work on our part:

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. (James 1)

We see here a commandment to repent and receive the word, which is only then able to save the soul, not before: hearing and being illuminated about the source of our conviction for sins is not being saved, nor is it the work of God begun within us.

Our obeying the commandment to receive the word is not passively hearing only, but is spiritually active obedience to the commandment for all men to repent and obey the faith of the gospel.

The parable of the sower only goes so far: we are not passive earthly ground, that just receives everything thrown at us.

We are spiritual beings who can either actively accept and receive the word to do it, or actively reject it not to do it.

The sower plants His seed within our hearts with us: We open the door to the knocking of the Lord, Neither He nor His seed, which is Christ, enters and is planted without us doing our part to obey and receive Him.

That is first works of receiving and obeying the word within the heart to purify and purge and make clean and whole for Christ:

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. (Rev 2)


We do the spiritual first works with the spirit to love God with all the heart, which we must continue doing with Him all the days of our flesh, even as Jesus did in the days of His flesh.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Rom 8)

The convicted and illuminated hearers only are not the sons of God, nor are born of His Spirit, but only them receiving Him are given power to do the first works with Him: being led by the Spirit is being led with the Spirit, which good work begins first within our hearts with us side by side.

Our walk with Christ is hand in hand, not being carried around in His hands: we are led with the Spirit, not by the Spirit passively, like a passive cart being drawn by a spiritual horse.

We are riders of the spiritual horse, and we receive and are led with the Spirit, only when we take Him by the hand to ride with us to heaven:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Rev 19)
 
For those who become saved in this life, neither eternal judgment nor death cannot be levied against them:

[Rev 20:6 KJV] 6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Those saved HAVE been given eternal life: "eternal" meaning it is forever and cannot be lost.

[Jhn 6:47 KJV] 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

[1Jo 5:13 KJV]
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

[Act 13:48 KJV]
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.


God wrote their names into the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world. At that time, God chose who is to be saved and who isn't to be saved-- He doesn't need to find them in a book to know whose who -- they who are in it, and they alone, become saved. No action or work required by the recipients - all God's work. This isn't intended to be general treatise on the books of life but suffice it to say that there are two books involved not one: the book of life, and the Lamb's book of life. The names that God has written into the Lamb's book of life are the ones that God causes to "overcometh", and which determines the names not to be blotted out of the book of life: all other names will be blotted out.

[Psa 69:28 KJV] 28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

[Rev 17:8 KJV] 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[Rev 13:8 KJV] 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


I agree with this but nevertheless, regardless of what we may believe about our own spiritual state, whether correct or not, there are certain people whom God chose to salvation, and without question, they, and they alone, will be those who are saved. God is the Saviour. With God as Saviour, we neither can make ourselves saved nor make ourselves unsaved.

Yes, bodily realization is to be manifested at a future time, but those who are to receive it have already been chosen through/by God's prerogative as Lord, and Saviour -- those who were His good pleasure to save.
Let us both pray they continue to manifest both the life and death of our dear Savior until the day of judgement.
And hope none fall away.
 
Depends on what you mean by "battle for souls"? The victory was won by Christ, that is why is has the tittle of Saviour

[1Co 15:57 KJV] 57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
As long as we remain faithful, we participate in that victory.
But if we grow weary, or fall to some temptation, the victory is gone in defeat.
I thank God for verses like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Keep looking for the escapes !
 
Illumination' and conviction is the work of God already begun upon the minds of all men by the cross, so that the Spirit is already poured out upon all flesh: Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, so that God is commanding and drawing all men to repent.
So the Spirit is already poured out upon all flesh ?
Does that mean everyone is prophesying, having visions and dreaming dreams?

Acts 2:17 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Our perspectives are totally and so different, that I'd go so far to say that only one of us are saved and thus have God's Spirit. Sorry I'm not out looking for converts to my perspective
 
Not dependent upon a future judgment. It is dependent upon Christ and that He has already been judged on our behalf, found guilty, and suffered a punishment that should have been ours to endure.
I'm not sure I follow your point. If you mean that no one becomes saved spiritually during this life, I would disagree.
In the Bible, salvation is revealed in two distinct parts: 1) given (not earned) positionally/spiritually to someone during their life, and 2) the bodily manifestation of salvation which is given at the end of time to those, and only to those to whom it had been previously given spiritually (#1)
The reason I asked for your confession is because I am seeing you hold to almost every doctrine of error that exists for sinners, that think they can be saved by faith alone, while they go on still sinning unto death.

Hear is a list of simple corrections for you:
1. There is no Scripture of Jesus being found guilty of sinning, because He was not sinning, and He certainly was not found guilty of sinning for sinners. He is the propitiation for all sins of all men, and so is Savior seeking to save all sinners, but He is only the Savior of saints, not sinners.

Sinners are still guilty of sinning, until they receive Jesus to obey Him and stop the sinning.

2. There is no Scripture for salvation being an unearned gift, but rather is the prize of immortality in resurrected spiritual body obtained at the end of the race.

The faith of Jesus that obeys God is the gift we are being saved by, by obeying His faith with a pure heart.

3. There is no gospel of works, but only the gospel of Christ that works to be free from sinning within, that we may be free to by justified by our works in His name.

The only 'gospel of works' that exists, is in the mind of them accusing the righteous of self-righteousness. They are also the only ones that ever speak of 'having no sin', when accusing the righteous of saying so, which I have never heard saint ever say so.

4. Spiritual sin is not self-justification, but is sinning by lust within the heart, which we are to cleanse ourselves of:

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Cor 7)

5. No man can be forgiven of sins, past present and future, since there are no future sins to forgive, and no present sinning can be forgiven, since it is now being sinned.

Sinning is a verb, like loving, it is not some doctrinal spirit to be forgiven of.

Jesus died on the cross for all sins, but He only forgives the past sins of those that received Him: not present nor future.

6. Saying the saints believe in following a moral code leading to salvation, is another of the false accusations of sinners, that reject the doctrine of being justified by works, that they may be saved by dead faith alone without works.

7. There is no being saved from the condemnation of the law nor the law itself, since the law is not sin, nor is doing the law sinful. Condemnation is for transgressing the law, which is what all sinning is.

We are saved from sinning against the law, so that there is now no condemnation for doing so.

8. The devil does not use the law at all, nor does he tempt any man to keep it. The devil only tempts to disobey the law of God, by lying about God and His law.

9. The law of sin and death is not the law of God, neither that written by Moses for the OT, nor that written by the apostles for the NT. The law of the Spirit does not defeat the law of God. The house of God is not divided against itself by two competing laws, which is confusion.

The law of sin and death is the devil's law that he commands all men to obey, by sinning against the law of God and dying to God. God commands to do His law of righteousness and live. The devil commands to do his law of sinning and die.

10. Salvation is not before nor by spiritual knowledge and wisdom of the Scriptures. Any man reading the Bible and hearing the gospel will have spiritual knowledge and wisdom: it is only those who do the word that are saved.

There is no salvation by faith nor knowledge nor wisdom alone. Many sinners apply the wisdom of the Bible for their own good in this life, but only the saints do the word with a pure heart for His name's sake, now and forever.

11. There is nothing sinful with the law nor the letter of the law: What letters of the law to flee fornication are not good to do? Condemning the letter of the law is condemning the law written for us in letters of Scripture: no Scripture of God is sinful.

The only death by the letter, is either transgressing the law, or is seeking to do the law without the Spirit, which is why we minister the Spirit with the law of God, and not the letter only.

The self-righteous minister the law without the Spirit, and the unrighteous minister the Spirit without the law.

12. Saying that there is no Spirit in doing the law, because it is a law, is saying that the law of God is not spiritual. And to further say that only the Spirit can be ministered from the heart without the law, is becoming a law unto oneself: a spiritual being choosing good and evil for oneself, which of course is the godhood promised to man by the serpent.

Living by faith only, without any law written on paper, is not living by the faith of Jesus, whose righteousness fulfills the law as written in Scripture.

Faith alone without works is dead, and living by faith only without the law of Christ is unruly.

13. We do not depend upon future judgment, nor any judgment, but rather we trust in Christ to do His righteousness, that we may be righteous as He, having boldness in the righteous judgment of God.

Neither the law of God nor the judgment of God is done away, so that His people might freely sin without condemnation.

Jesus did not die to be judged in our stead, even as He was not found guilty instead of us. If we are sinning against God, we are guilty and judged dead to God for it. This is why no one sinning is born of God, because them born of God cannot be sinning and be born of God.

All men sinning are of the devil: the children of the devil cannot also be sons of God.

The only sons of God now, are them that were sinning as children of the devil, which is why only past sins can be forgiven of God by confession from the heart.

14. There is no one Christ has 'brought to Himself': He draws all men to Himself by the gospel, but only them receiving Him are saved by Him. He draws men to open their doors to them by knocking at the door to enter.

There is nothing passive about being saved, because we repent and receive Him by commandment to open the door and do so. (James 1)

15. For them being saved, they have no condemnation, so long as they are not sinning: salvation is not from the righteous judgment of God. All men will still be judged by the works.

16. There is no 'once become saved', but only being saved from our sins to obtain eternal salvation by obeying Him unto the end. There is no once saved in the past, like some done deal and money in the bank.

No one being disobedient to God is being saved, but only them obeying Him now and today:

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

17. The only known Lamb at the foundation of the world was the Word. God foreknowing who is not predetermining who. There were not heavenly host of little lambs already saved from the foundation of the world.

That lie of Calvin is why many believers do not work out their own salvation with fear and trembling, because they think all souls have been prechosen by God to be saved or not. And so, it's all a matter of written fate anyway, and so we just wait until the end to see.

This is why you seem not to be the least troubled by not knowing if you are saved and have eternal life or not. You no doubt think you are one of those little lambs from the beginning, but you also think you have nothing to say nor do about it.

Which of course is why all your teaching is about not doing, rather than doing, especially when it comes to doing the righteousness of the law of God by Christ Jesus.

I do not write these things to you to correct you, nor to cause you to repent, because by your own doctrine, it doesn't matter what we do or not do anyway.

No, I only write them to show you the opposite of your teaching, which is to do righteousness and not sin.
 
I just hope you're not pushing some kind of sinless perfection in this life.
You can take that up with John who wrote the Scripture you apparently are suspicious of.

Besides, what's wrong with preaching being perfectly pure as Christ is in this life?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5)

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. (1 John 4)

Now, if you want to call doing righteousness with a pure heart, and living holily and blamelessly in this life, 'sinless perfection', then yes, I certainly am preaching it, when I quote the prophets, apostles, and Jesus:

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3)

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times. (Ps 106)

Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? (Ps 24)

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. (Is 55)

But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. (James 1)

Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe. (1 Thess 2)

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy. (Jude)

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. (Rev 3)

There are plenty of other Scriptures preaching what you call sinless perfection.

And also, I suppose so long as I don't say I have no sin, then I'm not lying. And so, I don't say I have no sin.

Do you say you do have sin?

I wouldn't say that either.
 
Besides, what's wrong with preaching being perfectly pure as Christ is in this life?
I never understand why the perfectionists avoid quotes from Paul...

Well here are two from John...

1 John 1:8 (KJV) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10 (KJV) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The only way the perfectionists can keep trumpeting their 'perfection' is to lower the goal posts of the Law or by bringing down the righteousness of Christ to our human standards...

Philippians 3:3-9 (KJV) For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


Galatians 2:20 (KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Those who 'speak words of faith' are much closer to 'perfection' than those who 'do words' of the law.

In football analogy, if Jesus' righteousness was at the goal post, in comparison, our best righteousness would put us around the 1 or 2 yard line. Our only hope is Him imputing His righteousness upon us. on the one hand and (for true believers) His inworking, conforming us to His image.
 
I never understand why the perfectionists avoid quotes from Paul...

Well here are two from John...
1 John 1:8 (KJV) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 (KJV) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
In 1 John, John uses an alternating verse system to juxtapose those who walk in darkness with those who walk in the light.
Verses 5, 7 and 9 pertain to those who walk in God, (the Light).
Verses 6, 8, and 10 pertain to those who walk in darkness, (sin).
Paul uses the same system in Romans 8, where he juxtaposes those who walk in the flesh with those who walk in the Spirit.
The only way the perfectionists can keep trumpeting their 'perfection' is to lower the goal posts of the Law or by bringing down the righteousness of Christ to our human standards...

Philippians 3:3-9 (KJV) For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Not seeing your point here.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Those who 'speak words of faith' are much closer to 'perfection' than those who 'do words' of the law.

In football analogy, if Jesus' righteousness was at the goal post, in comparison, our best righteousness would put us around the 1 or 2 yard line. Our only hope is Him imputing His righteousness upon us. on the one hand and (for true believers) His inworking, conforming us to His image.
We are "IN CHRIST".
We are where He is "on the field".
 
Paul uses the same system in Romans 8, where he juxtaposes those who walk in the flesh with those who walk in the Spirit.
Actually Romans 8 describes the position of the Christian as one who walks after the Spirit in comparison of the carnal man who walks according to the flesh. So it is different.
 
Actually Romans 8 describes the position of the Christian as one who walks after the Spirit in comparison of the carnal man who walks according to the flesh. So it is different.
Agreed.
Both Rom 8 and 1 John 1 juxtapose one side against the other.
Rom 8: walking in the Spirit vs. walking in the flesh.
1 John 1: walking in darkness (sin) vs. walking in the light (God).

It was the style of writing that I was pointing out.
 
Agreed.
Both Rom 8 and 1 John 1 juxtapose one side against the other.
Rom 8: walking in the Spirit vs. walking in the flesh.
1 John 1: walking in darkness (sin) vs. walking in the light (God).

It was the style of writing that I was pointing out.
oic, ok, as long as it is understood all regenerate Christians walk in the Spirit.
 
I never understand why the perfectionists avoid quotes from Paul...

Well here are two from John...

1 John 1:8 (KJV) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:10 (KJV) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The only way the perfectionists can keep trumpeting their 'perfection' is to lower the goal posts of the Law or by bringing down the righteousness of Christ to our human standards...

Philippians 3:3-9 (KJV) For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


Galatians 2:20 (KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Those who 'speak words of faith' are much closer to 'perfection' than those who 'do words' of the law.

In football analogy, if Jesus' righteousness was at the goal post, in comparison, our best righteousness would put us around the 1 or 2 yard line. Our only hope is Him imputing His righteousness upon us. on the one hand and (for true believers) His inworking, conforming us to His image.
When you actually quote the teaching to show how it is false, then we can go on, because you've gone from 'hoping not' to accusing. Until then your offence at righteousness is plain:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Why do people accuse doing righteousness as being 'sinless perfection', 'perfectionists', and those saying they 'have no sin'? Because the unrighteous are offended at the preaching of righteousness, without qualification and wiggle room for sinning by grace.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1)

Is it not strange, that the only people I have ever heard even speak of 'having no sin', are those accusing the righteous of saying it.

I have never heard any Christian saint ever say "I have no sin".

Those who 'speak words of faith' are much closer to 'perfection' than those who 'do words' of the law.

In football analogy, if Jesus' righteousness was at the goal post, in comparison, our best righteousness would put us around the 1 or 2 yard line. Our only hope is Him imputing His righteousness upon us. on the one hand and (for true believers) His inworking, conforming us to His image.
And so now, it's the speakers of the faith that are justified, and not the doers of the word:

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. (1 John 3)

If you want someone to speak words of comfortable faith to you, while still doing sin, then you'll need to go elsewhere.

They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. (Jerem 6)
 
When you actually quote the teaching to show how it is false, then we can go on, because you've gone from 'hoping not' to accusing. Until then your offence at righteousness is plain:
I think I did but I guess you weren't reading...

1 John 1:8 (KJV) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 (KJV) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 
When you actually quote the teaching to show how it is false, then we can go on, because you've gone from 'hoping not' to accusing. Until then your offence at righteousness is plain:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Why do people accuse doing righteousness as being 'sinless perfection', 'perfectionists', and those saying they 'have no sin'? Because the unrighteous are offended at the preaching of righteousness, without qualification and wiggle room for sinning by grace.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1)

Is it not strange, that the only people I have ever heard even speak of 'having no sin', are those accusing the righteous of saying it.

I have never heard any Christian saint ever say "I have no sin".
Then you have yet to meet a Christian saint.
I have no sin, because I walk in the light...which is God...and there is no sin in God. (1 John 1:5,7,5)
And so now, it's the speakers of the faith that are justified, and not the doers of the word:

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. (1 John 3)

If you want someone to speak words of comfortable faith to you, while still doing sin, then you'll need to go elsewhere.

They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. (Jerem 6)
 
Well, if that is true, then by confessing and repenting, we in effect save ourselves.



To "do" is to make it a work. We cannot be saved by our works. Instead, WE MUST BE saved and not try to save ourselves.



Yes, but from salvation, not to salvation,



God did/does everything necessary for salvation. That is why He has the title of Saviour, otherwise, He couldn't
rightfully have it. Again, that which we are commanded to do, we do because we have been saved, not to become saved.
We must be saved from ourselves.
 
So the Spirit is already poured out upon all flesh ?
Does that mean everyone is prophesying, having visions and dreaming dreams?

Acts 2:17 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Our perspectives are totally and so different, that I'd go so far to say that only one of us are saved and thus have God's Spirit. Sorry I'm not out looking for converts to my perspective
No, only those receiving Him do. The rest remain convicted of sins.

The grace of God is twofold: to convict of sinning and to help repent of sinning.

Until the resurrection of Jesus, the Spirit was only convicting them that knew the oracles of God, which included individuals until the tribes of Israel were born, who also were scattered among the nations at times.
 
Then you have yet to meet a Christian saint.
I have no sin, because I walk in the light...which is God...and there is no sin in God. (1 John 1:5,7,5)
Then you're the first one to say it, which for me is the only prohibition.

I know that sinners use the verse to reject righteousness.

How do you read it?
 
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