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Works save? Rubbish

Thanks Heidi for your response to my question. That is all I wanted to know! As far as how many times you can miss, the verse says not to forsake the assembly. Sounds to me like God expects us to be there everytime we are able.
 
It depends on where 'there' is ;)

God says not to forsake the assemblying of yourselves together - this can happen anywhere at any time. Not necessarily on a sunday at a building with people in it. Also it says not to forsake it - I really believe it's for our own spiritual growth is the reason and not so that we don't go to hell!
 
My question- Are you telling me that I have no say in whether or not I want to serve the Lord? Once I get saved I absolutely remain there whether I want to or not?
And btw Heidi who gives you the authority to judge a person and say they were never truly saved. That is not your call. You don't know a persons heart. How can you even say something like that? How do you excuse the fact that continuously the Bible says, If you do this, and if you do that, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. How do you excuse that?
 
What I'm saying Von is that sheep do what sheep do and goats do what goats do.

You're asking if you have to serve him if you don't want to but here's the good news...sheep want to! They dont' ever not want to, because they are sheep and they hear the shepherd's voice and they follow him.
 
Collier said:
Thanks Heidi for your response to my question. That is all I wanted to know! As far as how many times you can miss, the verse says not to forsake the assembly. Sounds to me like God expects us to be there everytime we are able.
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And if we stumble even once, then we are guilty of breaking the whole law. Then what? Hell? Did Christ die for nothing? or is God faithful and just to forgive our sins? No? What do you think saves us? Works, or Christ's death on the cross? :o
 
And what do you think causes our good works? The devil? It couldn't possibly be the itty-bitty Holy Spirit according to many of you. It must be us! Our powerful wonderful intelligent humanness! After all, what is the power of the Holy Spirit compared to the devil or we wonderful humans! In your dreams. That's the sin of pride at its peak. The arrogance of man to want to take the credit for the great works of God is rampant and a deception of Satan. :evil:
 
Heidi wrote:
And if we stumble even once, then we are guilty of breaking the whole law. Then what? Hell? Did Christ die for nothing? or is God faithful and just to forgive our sins? No? What do you think saves us? Works, or Christ's death on the cross?
Click to expand...
A good place to start is in 1 John. Verse 7 says, "but if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin." Notice the word IF! We all sin and make mistakes. However, if we do not allow sin to run our lives and we strive to walk daily with the Lord then His blood cleanses our sins. But if we allow sin to reign in our lives then the blood no longer cleanses us. (Hebrews 10:26).We can go on to verse 9 and read, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Again notice the word IF! What happens if one chooses not to confess their sins and remember this is being written to Christians?We could not be saved if Jesus had not died on the cross for a sacrifice for our sins. However, God has said that we must remain faithful (Rev. 2:10; Matt. 10:22). Part of this includes working for the Lord. Doing good works is part of the Christian service as we see in Matthew 25:31-46 and many other passages.Let me make one thing clear, simply doing good works does not save. One must first obey the gospel and what God has said to have sins washed away (believe, baptism, etc.) and then they are required by the Lord to do His work and as we have seen if one does not work, then they have no life. Oh, and we can't take credit for doing the work God has set forth for us. So we can't boast about these things.
 
I agree, Collier. If we remain faithful. I knkow that Merry has indicated that sheep want to do His will and that is true but every now and then some of those sheep get rebellious and fall by the wayside. I have done it myself in the past and I can guarentee you if I would have died or Jesus would have returned, I would have been lost.
 
Merry Menagerie said:
You're brave Heidi and I'm with you 100%!!!

Works don't save - for if they could, we wouldn't need a saviour...because we'd be all working our way to heaven!
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Thanks, Merry! :D
 
von said:
I agree, Collier. If we remain faithful. I knkow that Merry has indicated that sheep want to do His will and that is true but every now and then some of those sheep get rebellious and fall by the wayside. I have done it myself in the past and I can guarentee you if I would have died or Jesus would have returned, I would have been lost.
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Then how can they be Jesus's true sheep if they don't listen to his voice? :o Do you think Christ is lying here when he says his true sheep listen to his voice? :o
 
Collier said:
Heidi wrote:
And if we stumble even once, then we are guilty of breaking the whole law. Then what? Hell? Did Christ die for nothing? or is God faithful and just to forgive our sins? No? What do you think saves us? Works, or Christ's death on the cross?
Click to expand...
A good place to start is in 1 John. Verse 7 says, "but if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin." Notice the word IF! We all sin and make mistakes. However, if we do not allow sin to run our lives and we strive to walk daily with the Lord then His blood cleanses our sins. But if we allow sin to reign in our lives then the blood no longer cleanses us. (Hebrews 10:26).We can go on to verse 9 and read, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Again notice the word IF! What happens if one chooses not to confess their sins and remember this is being written to Christians?We could not be saved if Jesus had not died on the cross for a sacrifice for our sins. However, God has said that we must remain faithful (Rev. 2:10; Matt. 10:22). Part of this includes working for the Lord. Doing good works is part of the Christian service as we see in Matthew 25:31-46 and many other passages.Let me make one thing clear, simply doing good works does not save. One must first obey the gospel and what God has said to have sins washed away (believe, baptism, etc.) and then they are required by the Lord to do His work and as we have seen if one does not work, then they have no life. Oh, and we can't take credit for doing the work God has set forth for us. So we can't boast about these things.
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And who do you think enables us to do good works? The tooth fairy? or maybe our wonderful selves? or better yet, the devil!

To whom do you give credit for your good works? :o If it's God, then why do you think he will leave you as an orphan? He said he wouldn't. But if it's your wonderful nature then why do you even need Christ? Do you always give credit to God for the good you do, or do you give some or all of it to yourself? How is that humble? All pride is from the devil. :evil:
 
Heidi wrote:
And who do you think enables us to do good works? The tooth fairy? or maybe our wonderful selves? or better yet, the devil!

To whom do you give credit for your good works? If it's God, then why do you think he will leave you as an orphan? He said he wouldn't. But if it's your wonderful nature then why do you even need Christ? Do you always give credit to God for the good you do, or do you give some or all of it to yourself? How is that humble? All pride is from the devil.
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God has given us the ability and free will to do good works or evil works. One must decide whom he will serve (Joshua 24:15). If you serve God then you will do what God requires of you (good works) but if you serve the devil then you will do his evil works.I thank God for giving me His word that I can know what to do to be pleasing to Him. The good works a Christian does is not of themselves! God has said to do these and we are simply obeying what He says. I cannot take credit for doing what God says do. Heidi, do you do good works? Do you see your brother in need and help or do you just say that if you did that you are trying to earn your salvation through works? A person that has never obeyed the gospel cannot work their way to heaven but a Christian cannot get there if they do not do the work of the Lord. James says their faith is dead.
 
No, Heidi, I know Jesus is not lying. His sheep do know His voice but if they decide that they don't want to be His sheep anymore He is not going to force anyone into Heaven. We are going to serve Him and live for Him if we intend to get there. Otherwise, He wouldn't remark about taking names out of the Book of Life. He also wouldn't say, anything about living holy. How about the ten virgins? All ten of them went in to wait for the bridegroom. 5 kept their lamps trimmed and burning and 5 did not. Are you going to tell me that the 5 who didn't really weren't waiting for the bridegroom?
 
BTW, Heidi, I am not disagreeing that works don't save us. If that were the case I would be in so much trouble, for the simple reason, I don't do any good works. I do absolutely nothing for the Lord and I am aware of that so if I were judged by my works, I'd be in real trouble.
However we talk of grace through faith and faith without works is dead, right?
 
von said:
My question- Are you telling me that I have no say in whether or not I want to serve the Lord? Once I get saved I absolutely remain there whether I want to or not?
And btw Heidi who gives you the authority to judge a person and say they were never truly saved. That is not your call. You don't know a persons heart. How can you even say something like that? How do you excuse the fact that continuously the Bible says, If you do this, and if you do that, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. How do you excuse that?
Click to expand...

The bible tells us what salvation is in Ephesians 2:8-9. All you have to do is believe it. It's called faith. :)
 
Von,

The way we know what is a true interpretation and what is a false one is if our interpretation does not contradict any scripture. The "Do this and do that" is elaborated upon by Christ when he said; "With man this is impossible but with God all things are possible." That means instead of trying to "do this and do that" like the Pharisees and the Jews try to do, we now come to Christ because he fulfilled the law for us! if he did not, then what did he die for? it would be meaningless because we would still have to do this and do that just like the Jews still do. Then as Paul said in Galations 2, Christ would have died for nothing!

but jesus has become our permanent sacrifice once and for all. The law now, as paul said in Romans 3:20, "through the law we become comscious of sin." The law tells us what right and wrong are so that we will know when we break it. Then, instead of being slaves to the law like th Jews still do, we simply ask for forgiveness for our transgressions. It is finished." Christ already paid the penalty for our sins which breeds incredible thankfulness, love, and joy in our hearts that enables us to keep the law! That's why paul said that love is the fulfillment of the law. :)
 
von said:
I agree, Collier. If we remain faithful. I knkow that Merry has indicated that sheep want to do His will and that is true but every now and then some of those sheep get rebellious and fall by the wayside. I have done it myself in the past and I can guarentee you if I would have died or Jesus would have returned, I would have been lost.
Click to expand...

Jesus will leave the other 99 sheep and look for the one who is lost. I'm living proof!

"The steps of the good man are ordered by the Lord, and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand"
 
von said:
No, Heidi, I know Jesus is not lying. His sheep do know His voice but if they decide that they don't want to be His sheep anymore He is not going to force anyone into Heaven. We are going to serve Him and live for Him if we intend to get there. Otherwise, He wouldn't remark about taking names out of the Book of Life. He also wouldn't say, anything about living holy. How about the ten virgins? All ten of them went in to wait for the bridegroom. 5 kept their lamps trimmed and burning and 5 did not. Are you going to tell me that the 5 who didn't really weren't waiting for the bridegroom?
Click to expand...

God puts his desires in his sheep. Sheep will aways want to be sheep because they are sheep - they are not goats. Jesus doesn't lie!
 
Then they were not his true sheep, then were they, Von? You also refute Christ's statement that "No one can snatch them out of my hand."
 
Heidi,

Wouldn't the responses be interesting to read if we could get all of the Christians who have been martyred since Jesus Christ died on the cross, to each post a reply here to the subject of this thread?

In Christ,

farley
 
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