A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY

[brightfame52]

Folks lets please stick to the subject and not judge anyone lost or saved. We can disagree with another's position without judging them saved or lost.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey brightfame52 ... why do you allow wondering to TROLL us? See this thread posts 733, 725 (where she accuses me of not being a Christian) and #253 of this thread where I spent a long time documenting other maleficence.

Like, why are you allowing this to continue on and on and on ..???

It's one thing to disagree, it's another to tell lies ...like: Reform Theology say God is unjust ... .like, she's trolling us. Do something.

You told me once, maybe more than once, that when you point a finger,
THREE are pointing back at you....

Nuff said.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey brightfame52 ... why do you allow wondering to TROLL us? See this thread posts 733, 725 (where she accuses me of not being a Christian) and #253 of this thread where I spent a long time documenting other maleficence.

Like, why are you allowing this to continue on and on and on ..???

It's one thing to disagree, it's another to tell lies ...like: Reform Theology say God is unjust ... .like, she's trolling us. Do something.

Oh. And I'm not trolling you.
I'm participating in a thread with mean persons that I will not allow to step all over me.

And you can find out what TROLL means for future use.

 

[brightfame52]

One of the scriptures that lays the ground work for the total depravity of man, starts in Gen 6:5

5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
This is man by nature before a Holy God, and even after the destruction of the first world, and its new beginning under Noah, mans heart condition didnt change according to Gen 8:21

21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

And this includes very religious people, moral people

 

[brightfame52]

Man by nature, our heart is totally corrupt and has a disconnect Spiritually with God, and its not repairable Jer 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? The word for desperately 'ānaš:

1. to be incurable
2. to be sick
3. desperate, incurable, desperately wicked, woeful, very sick (pass participle) (metaph.)

Jer 30:12

For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.

When something is incurable it means:

not curable; that cannot be cured, remedied, or corrected: an incurable disease.
not susceptible to change:
That means it cannot repent, change of mind or heart,
This agrees with Paul in Rom 2:5
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Impenitent ametanoētos means:

1. admitting no change of mind, unrepented, impenitent

So Jesus as Saviour must and does to some give repentance Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[brightfame52]

Please provide a scripture from the New Testament that says…

Calvinism is also known as the doctrine of Christ.


Those who transgress, who leave and do not remain in the doctrine of Christ, do not have Christ any longer.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


Paul says it this way —


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


Calvinism, OSAS teaches people they can live a life of sin, practicing the works of the flesh and never become lost. Ths is a doctrine of demons, and causes people to depart from the faith, thinking that once they are saved they are always saved; that they have been elected to eternal salvation.


Here is who scripture teaches us who will receive eternal salvation in the end —


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9







JLB

You dont need a scripture that says that, for that matter you provide a scripture that says:

Calvinism is not the doctrine of Christ.

Total Depravity of man is withing the Teachings of the Doctrine of Christ. Christ died for the ungodly, the depraved Rom 5:6 those without strength or ability

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

To be without strength asthenēs:

1. weak, infirm, feeble, impotent:

To lack power or ability.

This is a spiritual matter and so it confirms total inability. Thats part of the Doctrine of Christ since He died for such, do you deny ?

 

[GodsGrace]

That's a LOT of questions to pile into one POST. How about "Tit for Tat" ... I answer one then YOU answer one, then I answer the next, then YOU answer another

Hi A,
The above was for brightfame52 because he seems to never really answer a question.
But I'm happy to discuss with you instead.

I don't think it's too much to handle, but whatever you say.

...

FIRST QUESTION: Could you please post where Jesus stated that man is so deprived that man is unable to come to Him?

SHORT ANSWER: John 6:43-44 "Jesus answered and said to them, 'Stop complaining among yourselves. No one can [unable] come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.' "

We seem to go over the same stuff all the time.
No one can go to Jesus unless the Father draws that person.
Question is, who does the Father draw?

It would seem that John 6 is in direct contradiction to John 12:32 where Jesus states that HE will draw all men to Himself.

So we have to come to a reconciliation between these two verses.
Does God draw or does Jesus draw?

They both do.
God draws because He desires all men to come to the knowledge of Him.
1 Timothy 2:4
He waits patiently for everyone He knows will be saved, to BE saved - before the end comes.
2 Peter 3:9 states this.

God is not a God that prefers one person over another...
Romans 2:11
For God shows no partiality.
This Paul stated regarding God giving glory and honor to men doing good, to the Jew and to the Gentile.
Distress for the soul of man that does evil, to the Jew and to the Gentile.

Acts 10:34
So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality,
James sums it up well:
James 3:17
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.

LONG ANSWER: from the Heidelberg Catechism (1563)

• Question 8. But are we so corrupt that we are totally unable to do any goodand inclined toward all evil?Answer. Yes,1 unless we are born again by the Spirit of God.2
  • 1. Genesis 6:5 [NRSV] The Lord saw that the wickedness of humans was great in the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.
  • 1. Genesis 8:21 [NRSV] And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odor, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of humans, for the inclination of the human heart is evil from youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done.
  • 1. Job 14:4 [NRSV] Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? No one can.
  • 1. Isaiah 53:6 [NRSV] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have all turned to our own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
  • 2. John 3:3-5 [NRSV] Jesus answered him, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

All Christians believe that man is evil.
The problem is that man is not so evil as to be unable to find God.

And of course I agree about being born of the spirit....
John 3:16 FOR WHOEVER....this is PRESCRIPTIVE due to the following verses of that one line.
AND according to what God states about seeking Him throughout the bible.


Scripture is full of verses asking us to seek God.
Would God ask us to do something He knows we cannot do?
Wouldn't this be unjust?
Would YOU ask a one year old to to cook something....
How much more just would you say God is?

1 Chronicles 22:19
"Now set your heart and your soul to seek the LORD your God,

Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness,
Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
Proverbs 8:17
I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.
Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

and from the Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

• Chapter 9: Of Free Will, Paragraph 3.
• Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation;4 so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin,5 is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.6
  • 4. Romans 5:6 [ESV] For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
  • 4. Romans 8:7 [ESV] For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.
  • 5. Ephesians 2:1,5 [ESV] And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
  • 6. Titus 3:3-5 [ESV] For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
  • 6. John 6:44 [ESV] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

[I trust that I have answered your question with BOTH explanation and Scripture.]

MY QUESTION: Could you please post where Jesus stated that all men are able to come to Him without the supernatural work of God upon that person?

Scripture is fine. I'm not going to spend time with the Baptist Confession...It's the same as the others and I think we should stick to scripture.

And I NEVER said we are able to come to God without His intervention.
God always makes the first move because He loves mankind and wishes that everyone would go to Him freely.
God reveals Himself to all, even according to Romans 1:19-20 - from the beginning of time God has revealed Himself to man...but there is no value in a relationship with Him unless WE CHOOSE HIM in return.

Love for love.

 

[GodsGrace]

Someone ... a demon ... a fallen angel. God created everything, including angels. What God created was GOOD (very good, in some cases). Those beings that CHOSE to depart from God moved away from GOOD. What do we call something that moves away from HEAT, we call it COLD. There is no such thing as actual COLD. You cannot measure "degrees of cold".

Let's talk about Darkness and Light. If I had an entire stadium full of total absolute darkness (not one photon of light in the entire structure) and I lit a single birthday candle, then the sheer weight of so great a volume of darkness would crush the light from a small candle and extinguish it, right? WRONG! Darkness does not exists. It is merely the LACK of light, so it is only measured by comparison to the light from the birthday candle and is powerless compared to the candle.

Same with God and Good. Evil does not exist as an independent thing. Like COLD and DARK, it is merely a measure of how far you (a person or action) "misses the mark" set by God as the perfect yardstick for absolute goodness. The demons were beings created good that chose to depart from God's standard. To deliberately "miss the mark" by a LOT.

Just like Adam and Eve and just like us.
God created EVERYTHING and God did not create EVIL. NO "top theologians" affirms otherwise. You claimed that Sproul affirmed that God created Evil in that 9 minute video, but he affirmed the opposite. I will need a real quote that can be confirmed in context to support so anti-Biblical a claim. You cannot post a quote "God created everything" and throw up your arms in victory.

No A, let's get this straight.
I DIDN'T SAY God created evil.
I said top calvinist theologians state this.
If videos showing them saying it doesn't convince you,
I surely am not going to.

I'm not going to engage in a discussion of what EVIL IS....
only that calvinism states that God created it.

I'll only post this...
Ephesians 6:10-12 (this might make a good thread)...
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.
11Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.
12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

 

[GodsGrace]

I dont need to find your exact wording in order to show the truthfulness of something scripture teaches, you are not the criteria.

The bible is the criteria.
But you're not showing me IN THE BIBLE what you are stating.
You always do this when I ask something of you.
How does scripture teach this:

You said that scripture teaches that man is so depraved that he cannot come to God,,,and that Jesus said it.
Where in scripture is this taught?
Seeing as how Jesus stated He would draw all men to Himself...

John 12:32
32“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

 

[GodsGrace]

Hey brightfame52 ... why do you allow wondering to TROLL us? See this thread posts 733, 725 (where she accuses me of not being a Christian) and #253 of this thread where I spent a long time documenting other maleficence.

Like, why are you allowing this to continue on and on and on ..???

It's one thing to disagree, it's another to tell lies ...like: Reform Theology say God is unjust ... .like, she's trolling us. Do something.

Regarding my comment that you may not be Christian....
Let's dig a little deeper:



Paul said that if anyone comes with a different gospel, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.


OK
Now here are the questions you should answer:

1. Paul is speaking about a different gospel in Gal 1:8
Gospel means the GOOD NEWS.

WHAT, IN CALVINISM, IS THE GOOD NEWS?


2. John says to test the spirits.
HOW do YOU test the spirits?
How do you know something man is teaching you is correct and in line with scripture?

 

[electedbyHim]

You're a hypocrite and liar. Dig to your heart's content.

Yes, I know....that's why I gave proof.
Premise 1: You said: "I'm going to avoid this Forum"
Premise 2: You've posted 10ish times since on this thread
Conclusion: Logically speaking, this is called a contradiction, but lets be blunt: it is a false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood, a lie.

Your statement is evidence that you do care... again, it is a false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood

Glad to ....
Post 291 of A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY
wondering said:
When I'm at Mass I KNEEL when necessary.
As to the rest, I don't have to explain myself to you.
Explain yourself to God. The mass is idol worship. They turn wine and bread into God and worship and you participate.
Transubstantiation: In many Christian churches, the doctrine holding that the bread and wine of the Eucharist are transformed into the body and blood of Jesus, although their appearances remain the same.
Post 201 of A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY
wondering said:
Because I biblically back up what I state.
Because I quote it from the Institutes and the WCF.
1) You claimed R.C.Sproul believed in double predestination. I said prove it, you would not. I've read R.C. I know this is not true. Provide a quote.
2) You claimed John MacArthur said God is the author of sin. I was so sure that was not true that I found a place on the internet where MacArthur said the opposite. I asked her for a reference ... radio silence …
3) You claimed John Piper said God is the author of sin. I was so sure that was not true that I found a place on the internet where Piper said the opposite. I asked her for a reference ... radio silence … Provide a quote.
4) You said you get her info about Reformed Theology from the WCF and John Calvin and always gives quotes. You never gives quotes to my recollection. I specifically asked for them.... you won't give them yet you say you give them.
5) You said Reformed Theology teaches God is UNJUST, UNLOVING and UNMERCIFUL. Like almost NO Christian of earth believes that. You say you give quotes from the WCF and Calvin's Institutes, but when asked for a quote to support you won't do it showing you claim to give quotes is false
6) More recently I said you said the Muslims could go to heaven with no knowledge of Christ. You said I misrepresented you and then, I assume, went to an ambassador and complained which resulted in my reprimand. I subsequently searched all the relevant posts and posted them thus vindicating myself by showing you were .... hmmm, what's an appropriate word.
Still waiting for you to keep your word. Validate your statements. To remind you, you said:
Because I biblically back up what I state.
Because I quote it from the Institutes and the WCF.
Then, I suppose to cover your tracks you post:
wondering said:
You're certainly not an honorable man fredy.
Far from it.
Let's just say your credibility can't get much lower as demonstrated above. But, I will give you another chance. Give me a quote (you say you do that though you don't which goes along with the theme of this post) .. .give me a quote (author, book, page, relevant text) from the WCF or Calvin's institute (not some Satinist NUT JOB that agrees with you) showing from either source which you yourself stated as authoritative of Reform Theology, that God is UNJUST ... or God is UNMERCIFUL ... or God is unloving.... yeah, I know I expect radio silence or "I don't have to explain myself to you" or "some NUT JOB anti-reform guy you listen too". This is an excellent opportunity, assuming your statements have been truthful, to put me in my place and demonstrate your integrity and show me to be a dishonorable accuser.
______________________________________
Post #175 of the A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY thread
See link: https://christianforums.net/threads/a-discussion-on-total-depravity.95683/page-9
... and I quote ...
I can say, without hesitation, that the reformed believe God is not just.
I've gone through the Institutes and the WCF and there is NO JUSTICE in the God they represent.
You're lying.... here's the proof .... you've done it so often that I started keeping track.
Now, it's possible you don't communicate ideas well. As a representation of the forum I would hope that is not the case. But I assume you mean what you say and you said and I will repeat it word for word per Post #175:
I can say, without hesitation, that the reformed believe God is not just.
I've gone through the Institutes and the WCF and there is NO JUSTICE in the God they represent.
STOP IT! ... stop making things up.

Agree completely with this.

Wondering loves contention and likes to cause division. I mean, she does believe mary was sinless, so that should tell you much about here skewed Theology.

If you say anything she thinks is negative she will call you a hater. I have read her many lies she replies to anyone who is Reformed.

The moderators here will not do anything about her behavior. She is just a know it all and quite comical.

 

[atpollard]

but there is no value in a relationship with Him unless WE CHOOSE HIM in return.

I don't think Scripture actually teaches this. This is one of those things like "God poured out His wrath on Jesus so Jesus suffered our punishment in our place to satisfy God's demand for Justice." It sounds reasonable, but it isn't found in any scripture and it is actually contrary to several scriptures.

In the same way, the REQUIREMENT for US TO CHOOSE GOD is something that I just don't see in scripture and it is contradicted by several passages of scripture (including some quoted in the Baptist Confession).

 

[atpollard]

No A, let's get this straight.
I DIDN'T SAY God created evil.
I said top calvinist theologians state this.
If videos showing them saying it doesn't convince you,
I surely am not going to.

The only time those words came out of RC Sproul's lips was when he quoted the KJV verbatim to explain that it was a bad translation of the Hebrew word (that doesn't count as a 'top Calvinist theologian stating' "God created evil".) At least ONE top Calvinist theologian (R.C. Sproul) clearly states that God did NOT create evil. I am pretty sure that both the WCF and London Confession both also state that God did not create EVIL.

So I am going to have to stand firm that I believe you are mistaken about the "top Calvinist theologian" position on God creating evil.

 

[GodsGrace]

You're a hypocrite and liar. Dig to your heart's content.

Yes, I know....that's why I gave proof.
Premise 1: You said: "I'm going to avoid this Forum"
Premise 2: You've posted 10ish times since on this thread
Conclusion: Logically speaking, this is called a contradiction, but lets be blunt: it is a false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood, a lie.

Your statement is evidence that you do care... again, it is a false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood

Glad to ....
Post 291 of A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY
wondering said:
When I'm at Mass I KNEEL when necessary.
As to the rest, I don't have to explain myself to you.
Explain yourself to God. The mass is idol worship. They turn wine and bread into God and worship and you participate.
Transubstantiation: In many Christian churches, the doctrine holding that the bread and wine of the Eucharist are transformed into the body and blood of Jesus, although their appearances remain the same.
Post 201 of A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY
wondering said:
Because I biblically back up what I state.
Because I quote it from the Institutes and the WCF.
1) You claimed R.C.Sproul believed in double predestination. I said prove it, you would not. I've read R.C. I know this is not true. Provide a quote.
2) You claimed John MacArthur said God is the author of sin. I was so sure that was not true that I found a place on the internet where MacArthur said the opposite. I asked her for a reference ... radio silence …
3) You claimed John Piper said God is the author of sin. I was so sure that was not true that I found a place on the internet where Piper said the opposite. I asked her for a reference ... radio silence … Provide a quote.
4) You said you get her info about Reformed Theology from the WCF and John Calvin and always gives quotes. You never gives quotes to my recollection. I specifically asked for them.... you won't give them yet you say you give them.
5) You said Reformed Theology teaches God is UNJUST, UNLOVING and UNMERCIFUL. Like almost NO Christian of earth believes that. You say you give quotes from the WCF and Calvin's Institutes, but when asked for a quote to support you won't do it showing you claim to give quotes is false
6) More recently I said you said the Muslims could go to heaven with no knowledge of Christ. You said I misrepresented you and then, I assume, went to an ambassador and complained which resulted in my reprimand. I subsequently searched all the relevant posts and posted them thus vindicating myself by showing you were .... hmmm, what's an appropriate word.
Still waiting for you to keep your word. Validate your statements. To remind you, you said:
Because I biblically back up what I state.
Because I quote it from the Institutes and the WCF.
Then, I suppose to cover your tracks you post:
wondering said:
You're certainly not an honorable man fredy.
Far from it.
Let's just say your credibility can't get much lower as demonstrated above. But, I will give you another chance. Give me a quote (you say you do that though you don't which goes along with the theme of this post) .. .give me a quote (author, book, page, relevant text) from the WCF or Calvin's institute (not some Satinist NUT JOB that agrees with you) showing from either source which you yourself stated as authoritative of Reform Theology, that God is UNJUST ... or God is UNMERCIFUL ... or God is unloving.... yeah, I know I expect radio silence or "I don't have to explain myself to you" or "some NUT JOB anti-reform guy you listen too". This is an excellent opportunity, assuming your statements have been truthful, to put me in my place and demonstrate your integrity and show me to be a dishonorable accuser.
______________________________________
Post #175 of the A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY thread
See link: https://christianforums.net/threads/a-discussion-on-total-depravity.95683/page-9
... and I quote ...
I can say, without hesitation, that the reformed believe God is not just.
I've gone through the Institutes and the WCF and there is NO JUSTICE in the God they represent.
You're lying.... here's the proof .... you've done it so often that I started keeping track.
Now, it's possible you don't communicate ideas well. As a representation of the forum I would hope that is not the case. But I assume you mean what you say and you said and I will repeat it word for word per Post #175:
I can say, without hesitation, that the reformed believe God is not just.
I've gone through the Institutes and the WCF and there is NO JUSTICE in the God they represent.
STOP IT! ... stop making things up.

Unable to use scripture.
Thought so.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think Scripture actually teaches this. This is one of those things like "God poured out His wrath on Jesus so Jesus suffered our punishment in our place to satisfy God's demand for Justice." It sounds reasonable, but it isn't found in any scripture and it is actually contrary to several scriptures.

In the same way, the REQUIREMENT for US TO CHOOSE GOD is something that I just don't see in scripture and it is contradicted by several passages of scripture (including some quoted in the Baptist Confession).

Are you going to reply to my post?

 

[GodsGrace]

The only time those words came out of RC Sproul's lips was when he quoted the KJV verbatim to explain that it was a bad translation of the Hebrew word (that doesn't count as a 'top Calvinist theologian stating' "God created evil".) At least ONE top Calvinist theologian (R.C. Sproul) clearly states that God did NOT create evil. I am pretty sure that both the WCF and London Confession both also state that God did not create EVIL.

So I am going to have to stand firm that I believe you are mistaken about the "top Calvinist theologian" position on God creating evil.

Are you going to reply to my post?

 

[GodsGrace]

The only time those words came out of RC Sproul's lips was when he quoted the KJV verbatim to explain that it was a bad translation of the Hebrew word (that doesn't count as a 'top Calvinist theologian stating' "God created evil".) At least ONE top Calvinist theologian (R.C. Sproul) clearly states that God did NOT create evil. I am pretty sure that both the WCF and London Confession both also state that God did not create EVIL.

So I am going to have to stand firm that I believe you are mistaken about the "top Calvinist theologian" position on God creating evil.

I don't care.
Those reading along could listen and decide for themselves.

I'm interested in what the bible states.

 

[JLB]

In the same way, the REQUIREMENT for US TO CHOOSE GOD is something that I just don't see in scripture and it is contradicted by several passages of scripture (including some quoted in the Baptist Confession).

And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” Joshua 24:15

Just like Joshua we all must choose to serve (obey) the Lord or not.

Joshua made the right choice.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


Abraham had to make the difficult choice to obey or not when God spoke to him to get out from his family and go to a land that he did not know.


That is what “by faith” means: someone heard God, received faith and chose to do what God said.


Noah chose to obey and build the Ark.


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


Only those who choose to obey will receive eternal salvation.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9







JLB

 

[JLB]

Mans total depravity is part of the Doctrine of Christ. Christ came to save ungodly sinners that couldnt do anything for themselves being dead in sin. Thats one of the reasons why man needs a Saviour, because he is totally depraved.

Please post the scripture from Jesus or the apostles that mentions Total Depravity.


Total Depravity is a man made concept to prop up a man made doctrine.



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


God loves and desires the world to be saved, because they are lost, and it’s clearly His will that not any should perish but all come to repentance.


Each person must hear and believe in order to be saved.




JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Please post the scripture from Jesus or the apostles that mentions Total Depravity.


Total Depravity is a man made concept to prop up a man made doctrine.



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


God loves and desires the world to be saved, because they are lost, and it’s clearly His will that not any should perish but all come to repentance.


Each person must hear and believe in order to be saved.




JLB

I have posted scripture by which I make my claim. You obviously reject it.