A Theological and Exegetical Examination of Holy Spirit Baptism

[Sparkey]

"And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word:

"Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and [that] they will hear it."​

- [Acts 28:25-28 KJV]

 

[Eventide]

Re: Christ in you..

You have a problem here that you are having trouble solving.

Water baptism was commanded so I can choose to obey that command or not and will be held accountable whether if I obey it or not. I have control on this baptism.

I obeyed it too although it didn't save me.

But baptism with the HS was never commanded so it is not something I can choose to obey or not obey so being baptized with the HS is out of my control. Since only God controls who is and is not baptized with the HS, then whose fault is it if I am not baptized with the HS? It would be God's fault and that is the problem you have with baptism with the HS. Secondly, baptism with the HS does not even exist today for it has been fulfilled by Christ and made obsolete some 2,000 years ago so here are two reasons this baptism is not the baptism that saves, is it not the one baptism of Eph 4:5.

Sorry if you don't understand how salvation works.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Christ in you..

This does not solve your problem either for Cornelius was an unbeliever when the HS fell upon him.

There is no problem with how the Lord Jesus Christ SAVES people.. did you ever remotely consider that YOU have a problem ?

 

[Webb]

The Bible is its own best commentary. There is an easy, scriptural way to determine if one has been baptized with the Holy Spirit. What happened in Acts 2 when the apostles (as promised by Jesus and John, for you see Holy Baptism is a PROMISE and not a COMMAND) were baptized with the Holy Spirit? A sound as of a rushing mighy wind and cloven tongues like as of fire. I have attended through the years numerous meetings where people were claiming to be baptized with the Spirit and have never heard anything but a "windy" preacher and certainly no tongues like as fire on the heads of any of the so-called recipients of Holy Spirit baptism. The only other time such occured in the scripture was the household of Cornelius in Acts 10 and 11 and the scripture reads that Peter (in reporting to the other apostles what had happened) said: "And as I began to speak , the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us in the beginning" Acts 11:15.
God bless

 

[Eventide]

Re: Christ in you..

Secondly, baptism with the HS does not even exist today for it has been fulfilled by Christ and made obsolete some 2,000 years ago so here are two reasons this baptism is not the baptism that saves, is it not the one baptism of Eph 4:5.

Here is the problem, and it's obviously yours.. because God does baptize every member of His body by that same SPIRIT.. if you can't see that, then seriously, you shouldn't be arguing in a Christian forum.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: Christ in you..

I obeyed it too although it didn't save me.

baptism now saves us, 1 Pet 3:21 it remits sins (saves), Acts 2:38.

Sorry if you don't understand how salvation works.

Now where is the verse(s) that says baptism with the HS remits sins/saves or that anyone has been commanded to be baptized with the HS or that the believer or unbeliever has been promised baptism with the HS? Why wasn't the eunuch baptized with the HS? Was he lost for not recieving that baptism?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: Christ in you..

Here is the problem, and it's obviously yours.. because God does baptize every member of His body by that same SPIRIT.. if you can't see that, then seriously, you shouldn't be arguing in a Christian forum.

Peter's listeners in Acts 2 were water baptized not bpatized with the HS, the eunuch water baptized and not bpatized with the HS.

Cornelius was not a member of that body when the HS fell upon him.


So in what verse has God promised believers or non-believers He would baptize them with the HS?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The Bible is its own best commentary. There is an easy, scriptural way to determine if one has been baptized with the Holy Spirit. What happened in Acts 2 when the apostles (as promised by Jesus and John, for you see Holy Baptism is a PROMISE and not a COMMAND) were baptized with the Holy Spirit? A sound as of a rushing mighy wind and cloven tongues like as of fire. I have attended through the years numerous meetings where people were claiming to be baptized with the Spirit and have never heard anything but a "windy" preacher and certainly no tongues like as fire on the heads of any of the so-called recipients of Holy Spirit baptism. The only other time such occured in the scripture was the household of Cornelius in Acts 10 and 11 and the scripture reads that Peter (in reporting to the other apostles what had happened) said: "And as I began to speak , the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us in the beginning" Acts 11:15.
God bless

And these are the only two times in all the NT that baptism with the HS occurs so does that mean everyone else was lost except for the apostles in Acts 2 and the household of Cornelius in Acts 10? No. Was the eunuch lost since he was only water bpatized and not baptized with the HS? No.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Christ in you..

baptism now saves us, 1 Pet 3:21 it remits sins (saves), Acts 2:38.

AND WHO said this E.. the Apostle to the Circumcision or the Apostle to the Gentiles ?

Now where is the verse(s) that says baptism with the HS remits sins/saves or that anyone has been commanded to be baptized with the HS or that the believer or unbeliever has been promised baptism with the HS? Why wasn't the eunuch baptized with the HS? Was he lost for not recieving that baptism?

As mentioned, if you can't see that GOD ALONE baptizes each and every member into HIS BODY, then you shouldn't be in a Christian forum arguing about it. What does Eph 1:13 mean to you E ?

Catholics believe the same thing that you do.. that they dunk a person in water and poof, they're born again and saved.. that's what they teach and that's what you preach.. are you sure that you're not a catholic, because I could understand the situation not being understood there.. but in your case.. who knows.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Christ in you..

Peter's listeners in Acts 2 were water baptized not bpatized with the HS, the eunuch water baptized and not bpatized with the HS.

Then Peter LIED.. because he told them that they would receive the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT..

Are you going to DENY the obvious truth here ?

For what.. so that you can stand tall in your one true church ? Seriously... I really don't get that at all..

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: Christ in you..

AND WHO said this E.. the Apostle to the Circumcision or the Apostle to the Gentiles ?

Peter in Acts 2;38 to the Jews and Acts 10:47,48 to the Gentiles shows that water baptism in the name of the Lord saves. THe other apostles would have taught the same since they were all inspired by the same Holy Spirit.

As mentioned, if you can't see that GOD ALONE baptizes each and every member into HIS BODY, then you shouldn't be in a Christian forum arguing about it. What does Eph 1:13 mean to you E ?

Cornelius was not a member of the body when the HS fell upon him. Why wasn't the eucnuch just water baptized and not bpatized with the HS?

Eph 1:13 is not baptism with the HS.

Catholics believe the same thing that you do.. that they dunk a person in water and poof, they're born again and saved.. that's what they teach and that's what you preach.. are you sure that you're not a catholic, because I could understand the situation not being understood there.. but in your case.. who knows.

Water baptism saves not because Catholics, myself or anyone else teaches it, but because the bible teaches it.

 

[rrowell]

Re: Ephesians 1:13

I thought that there was a separate 'church of Christ' from the churches which Kip started... although don't they also mandate water baptism as necessary for salvation ? Not only necessary, but the actual means by which a person is born again...?

IMO False doctrine is false doctrine, regardless of where it originates.

The name the assembly puts on the building is NOT what makes one a Christian, it is not synonymous with "The Church Christ Built", if you properly study your Bible, the Church was NEVER GIVEN a name, but has many descriptions, however a name does have great meaning to God, (see Abram -> Abraham, Jacob -> Israel, "I AM") this list goes on and on... if one must put a name on a building of worship it should be biblical so the assembly I go to used the description Paul used in Romans 16:16.

It is not the name on the Building that makes it the Lords Church, it is the worship of the believer inside it that determines that.

What is the label on your assemblies building is it Biblical? even Martin Luther knew how important a name is:

“How then could I — poor stinking maggot-fodder that I am — come to have (people) call the children of Christ by my wretched name? Not so, my dear friends; let us abolish all party names and call ourselves Christians, after him whose teaching we hold†(Luther’s Works, 45:70-71).

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: Christ in you..

Then Peter LIED.. because he told them that they would receive the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT..

Are you going to DENY the obvious truth here ?

For what.. so that you can stand tall in your one true church ? Seriously... I really don't get that at all..

THose in Acts 2 were water baptized which is the baptism of the great commission.

Gift of the HS is not baptism with the HS.


If you received a gift of Ernest T does that mean you receive Ernest T himself personally or a gift Ernest T has to give you?

 

[Eventide]

Re: Christ in you..

Peter in Acts 2;38 to the Jews and Acts 10:47,48 t the Gentiles shows that water baptism in the name of the Lord saves. THe other apostles would have tuaght the same since they were all inspired by the same Holy Spirit.

Right, and the examples of Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit BEFORE they were baptized means absolutely nothing to you, because you can't see past what your one true church teaches.

Eph 1:13 is not baptism with the HS.

THEN BY ALL MEANS tell us what it actually is E.

Water baptism saves not because Catholics, myself or anyone else teaches it, but because the bible teaches it.

I know, and God baptizing members into His own body by the SAME SPIRIT has absolutely nothing to do with it..

I've had enough Ernie.. it's painfully obvious that you can't see anything beyond your one true church and its claims.

Keep believing that you're saving people and that the Holy Spirit isn't birthed into His believers today.. you're in perfect company with the majority of Christendom which doesn't have a clue and yet also considers their assembly to be that one true church.. it's the same spirit of error.

 

[Eventide]

Re: Christ in you..

THose in Acts 2 were water baptized which is the baptism of the great commission.

And they received the PROMISE of the HOLY GHOST.

Gift of the HS is not baptism with the HS.

What is it then E.. you make these blanket claims and don't provide one iota of scripture to support them.

If you received a gift of Ernest T does that mean you receive Ernest T himself personally or a gift Ernest T has to give you?

If I am born again by God then I have CHRIST in me.. for HE IS my exceeding and great reward..

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: Christ in you..

Right, and the examples of Gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit BEFORE they were baptized means absolutely nothing to you, because you can't see past what your one true church teaches.

Baptism with the HS had nothing to do with Cornelius's personal salvation and you have not proven otherwise. The context in Acts 11:14 tells us HOW Cornelius would be saved and that by the preaching of the gospel WORD and NOT baptism with the HS. Where is the verse that says baptism with the HS saves? You erroneously do not think water baptism saves so you try and find a way to get around water baptism being essential so you try and make baptism with the HS essential but cannot show where anyone was commanded to be baptized with this baptism or where this baptism is said to save or where this batism even exists today.

THEN BY ALL MEANS tell us what it actually is E.

Baptism with the HS was a prohecy of Joel where he prophesied that God's spirit would be poured out upon all flesh. All flesh is mde up of Jew and Gentiles. The aposltes in ACts 2 were Jews and COnrelius a Gentiles so Jew and Gentile or all flesh were baptized with the HS fulfilling Joel's prophecy. Fulfilling means to cease, to bring to an end so baptism with the HS ceased, ended some 2,000 years ago. One purpose of the Messiah coming to earth was to fulfill the OT lawe and prophets, Mt 5:17,18 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." If Joel's prophecy about baptism with the HS has not been fulfilled then Christ was not the Messiah and every jot and tittle of the OT law is still in place and binding. Since it has been fulfilled Eph 1:13 is not, cannot be baptism with the HS. Again, Cornelius was an unbeliever when the HS fell upon him. Eph 1:13 would be an indwelling of the HS by means of the word and not baptism with the HS.

I know, and God baptizing members into His own body by the SAME SPIRIT has absolutely nothing to do with it..

I've had enough Ernie.. it's painfully obvious that you can't see anything beyond your one true church and its claims.

Keep believing that you're saving people and that the Holy Spirit isn't birthed into His believers today.. you're in perfect company with the majority of Christendom which doesn't have a clue and yet also considers their assembly to be that one true church.. it's the same spirit of error.

1 Cor 12:13 is water baptism:

Jn 3:5---------Spirit+++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12:13-----Spirit++++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>in the body


You leave by making God culpalbe for those who have not been baptized with the HS, you leave without showing where baptism with the HS was commanded to anyone, without showing where baptism with the HS saves or showing that this baptism even exists today, leave without explaining how the eunuch was only water baptized and not baptized with the HS.

 

[farouk]

Interesting, but I don't see Joel as referring to the church, which is a New Testament mystery, separate from the Old Testament prophecies about the relationship between Jews and their coming Messiah.

 

[rrowell]

Interesting, but I don't see Joel as referring to the church, which is a New Testament mystery, separate from the Old Testament prophecies about the relationship between Jews and their coming Messiah.

You completely missed his point, Jesus came to "fulfill" the law, the pouring out of the HS was prophesied to both Jew and Gentile, this was fulfilled once done to Apostles (Jew) and house of Cornelius (Gentile) so once fulfilled, it was done, never needed again...

Point two was this portion of the HS "pouring of the HS" or "Baptism of the HS" has never been recorded in the Holy Writ to have EVER saved ANYONE...

If the pouring out of the HS saved Cornelius and his house Acts 10:44 then why did Peter in 3 verses later tell them to be baptized with water if they had already been saved? Acts 10:47-48

This is why:

1 Peter 3:20-21 (KJV)
20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[Eventide]

Re: Christ in you..

Baptism with the HS had nothing to do with Cornelius's personal salvation and you have not proven otherwise. The context in Acts 11:14 tells us HOW Cornelius would be saved and that by the preaching of the gospel WORD and NOT baptism with the HS. Where is the verse that says baptism with the HS saves? You erroneously do not think water baptism saves so you try and find a way to get around water baptism being essential so you try and make baptism with the HS essential but cannot show where anyone was commanded to be baptized with this baptism or where this baptism is said to save or where this batism even exists today.

And as mentioned E, if you can't see (or more importantly KNOW) that Christ is in you, then you shouldn't be in a Christian forum arguing your position here... which is sheer nonsense.. that the HOLY SPIRIT is not given today ? ? ?

Every born again Christian here knows how absurd that is... although at the same time it would be impossible for you to know the difference if you're not born again and do not have Christ in you.

 

[Eventide]

It's obviously a waste of time, and impossible at that.. in trying to convince an unregenerated man of something which he cannot understand.