A Theological and Exegetical Examination of Holy Spirit Baptism

[rrowell]

Re: Christ in you..

It seems to me your discussion has gone off topic.

It was my understanding that we were trying to determine IF the baptism in 1 Corinthians was the same as the one spoken about in Acts.

It was not to discuss when I Corinthians took place. Whether it was when you were baptized in water or when we first believed is not the purpose of this thread.

Correct me if I am wrong.

When someone is saying they were baptized with the HS, and showing scripture that says they were not, it is not off topic.

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

1 Corinthians 12:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

It is my understanding we are discussing what this baptism is and if it is the same baptism that takes place in Acts. My english grammer and parts of speech is rusty to say the least but I think this would be correct.
we-noun, all-adj, baptized-verb, one Spirit-adverb
We are all baptized by one Spirit.
Jeremiah 2:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Here God is saying that He is the fountain of living water.
John 4:10 and 14
King James Version (KJV)
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
John 7:38
King James Version (KJV)

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.


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Jeremiah 2:13 - living water
Hebrew- Strong's #2416 - moving as opposed to stagnant water
(adj. riviving),(masculine noun. sustenance, maintenance)
(feminine noun. revival, renewal)
John 7:38
Greek- Strong's #2198 - living used with water - vital power and exerting the same on the soul
#2386 - belly - inner most part of man
Mark 1:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

To me it is clear that this is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when one is born again. This living water is the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you as I have also been saying this in a similar way. Problem is many will see but are blind, hear but are deaf. It doesn't matter what you say, but we have to rely on the Holy Spirit to teach them too.

"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." John 14:26

As Christians we're going in circles disputing what is right and wrong. Yes it is an important issue but it's very sad how divided we are among the issue.

Lord come and teach all of us Your Truth as we are acting as goats; becoming independent rather than becoming a flock of sheep. Help us Father!

 

[Deborah13]

When one is baptized with water, the HS is the acting agent putting us in contact with the cleansing blood of Christ and then He does indwell in us, this is not a baptism of the HS.

Only Christ can baptize with the HS affirmed by your Mark 1:8 quote. the Baptism of the HS is only recorded twice in the NT, once to the Apostles, and once to the house of Cornelius, but never has it recorded anyone ever being saved by baptism of the HS, otherwise why would Peter have commanded Cornelius 3 verses after his baptism of the HS (Acts 10:44) to be water baptized? (Acts 10:47-48)

The same Great Apostle tells us here why water Baptism was necessary:

1 Peter 3:20-21 (KJV)
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Hear me and see my words please. I really don't care at this time in this thread about when you think you received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Or maybe you don't think you are indwelled by the Holy Spirit?

I don't think that is what this discussion is about. Correct me if I am wrong.
Please tell me if I am mistaken as to what Josh is wanting to study.
I am quite interested in this thread and would like to stay on point.

 

[Deborah13]

Re: Christ in you..

When someone is saying they were baptized with the HS, and showing scripture that says they were not, it is not off topic.

1 Corinthians 12:13

No, it says by one Spirit. Not with one Spirit.

We are all baptized by one Spirit.

AND I did not say I was baptized with anything..........Read and reread??

I was pointing out scripture that it appears to me the Holy Spirit is the one and the same living water. Both in Jeremiah and John.

 

[Butch5]

Re: Christ in you..

1 Corinthians 12:13

No, it says by one Spirit. Not with one Spirit.

We are all baptized by one Spirit.

AND I did not say I was baptized with anything..........Read and reread??

I was pointing out scripture that it appears to me the Holy Spirit is the one and the same living water. Both in Jeremiah and John.

Hi Deborah13,

Actually, that verse is better translated with one Spirit. This is the only passage that is translated baptized by the Spirit. There is no teaching in the Scriptures that says the Spirit baptizes. John the Baptist said that Jesus would baptize "with" the Holy Spirit.

 

[Webb]

Just keeping the record straight Jn.1:33 uses the terminology "baptizeth WITH (emp.mine) the Holy Ghost" when referring to Jesus.

 

[Butch5]

Just keeping the record straight Jn.1:33 uses the terminology "baptizeth WITH (emp.mine) the Holy Ghost" when referring to Jesus.

Yes, I'm not sure why it was translated "by" in 1 Cor. 12:13. There is no teaching anywhere in the Scriptures that I am aware of that says the Holy Spirit baptizes.

 

[rrowell]

Re: Christ in you..

1 Corinthians 12:13

No, it says by one Spirit. Not with one Spirit.

We are all baptized by one Spirit.

AND I did not say I was baptized with anything..........Read and reread??

I was pointing out scripture that it appears to me the Holy Spirit is the one and the same living water. Both in Jeremiah and John.

Hi Deborah13,

Actually, that verse is better translated with one Spirit. This is the only passage that is translated baptized by the Spirit. There is no teaching in the Scriptures that says the Spirit baptizes. John the Baptist said that Jesus would baptize "with" the Holy Spirit.

Actually 1 Cor. 12:13 is rendered correctly.

There is a difference in being "baptized by the HS" and being "baptized with the HS".

When one is baptized "by" the Holy Spirit (immersion is in water), the HS is the acting agent, it is the spiritual cleansing he does by putting us in contact with the blood of Christ remitting our sins. then when we come up out of the water, we receive the Gift (or indwelling of Him).

When one is baptized "with" the HS (immersion is in the HS), it is the HS one is immersed in, this only Jesus can do and only recorded twice of Him doing, the Apostles and the house of Cornelius.

 

[Butch5]

Re: Christ in you..

Actually 1 Cor. 12:13 is rendered correctly.

There is a difference in being "baptized by the HS" and being "baptized with the HS".

When one is baptized "by" the Holy Spirit (immersion is in water), the HS is the acting agent, it is the spiritual cleansing he does by putting us in contact with the blood of Christ remitting our sins. then when we come up out of the water, we receive the Gift (or indwelling of Him).

When one is baptized "with" the HS (immersion is in the HS), it is the HS one is immersed in, this only Jesus can do and only recorded twice of Him doing, the Apostles and the house of Cornelius.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. I see nothing in Scripture that teaches that the Holy Spirit baptizes. This is the only verse and it makes much more sense if it is translated "with" because the Baptist said Jesus would baptize "with" the Holy Spirit.

 

[Deborah13]

Just keeping the record straight Jn.1:33 uses the terminology "baptizeth WITH (emp.mine) the Holy Ghost" when referring to Jesus.

Good point.

Strong's 1722 - preposition - in, by, with, etc.

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest

 

[Deborah13]

Yes, I'm not sure why it was translated "by" in 1 Cor. 12:13. There is no teaching anywhere in the Scriptures that I am aware of that says the Holy Spirit baptizes.

No, and I don't think that is what is intended. Jesus is the baptizer.

 

[Deborah13]

Re: Christ in you..

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. I see nothing in Scripture that teaches that the Holy Spirit baptizes. This is the only verse and it makes much more sense if it is translated "with" because the Baptist said Jesus would baptize "with" the Holy Spirit.

I agree, and I thank Webb for pointing this out to me.

In order for it to be "by" there would need to be at least one more witnessing scripture I would think. I'd be more confident in the "by" if there were.

 

[rrowell]

Re: Christ in you..

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. I see nothing in Scripture that teaches that the Holy Spirit baptizes. This is the only verse and it makes much more sense if it is translated "with" because the Baptist said Jesus would baptize "with" the Holy Spirit.

This commentator puts it this way:

13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free;—As the body is animated by one spirit and under the guidance of one spirit, the different members of the body act, so guided or ruled by the one Spirit, all the members of the church, the body of Christ, were baptized into the one body, whether Jews or Greeks or bond or free.
The baptism is that commanded by Christ and the Holy Spirit, but inasmuch as it is done by the disciples under the direction of the Holy Spirit, it is said that the Spirit baptizes. God sent his Son, his Son sent the Holy Spirit as the abiding guest of the church of God, and he is ever present to guide and help every one walking under the guidance of the word of God. If we could realize that in deed and in truth Jesus baptizes every one that is baptized according to his will, that we are baptized by the directions of the Spirit, that this is God's work, it would be a security and safety to us, and would help us to walk with him that he might be our God and dwell in and with us.
Some expositors think that being baptized in one Spirit refers to the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The example of the body led by one Spirit does not bear this interpretation. For it could not be said that they were all made to drink of one Spirit if they had all been baptized or overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit as the apostles had been on the day of Pentecost. Beside this, there is no evidence that all the disciples at Corinth had been baptized in the Holy Spirit. There is no evidence whatever that any of them had been.
Gospel Advocate Commentaries - New Testament Commentary – A Commentary on the New Testament Epistles: First Corinthians.

 

[Butch5]

No, and I don't think that is what is intended. Jesus is the baptizer.

"En" is in the dative case and can be used instrumentally. That would make "with" a valid translation. That, along with the context would seems to suggest that "with" is a better translation.

 

[Butch5]

Re: Christ in you..

This commentator puts it this way:

13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free;—As the body is animated by one spirit and under the guidance of one spirit, the different members of the body act, so guided or ruled by the one Spirit, all the members of the church, the body of Christ, were baptized into the one body, whether Jews or Greeks or bond or free.
The baptism is that commanded by Christ and the Holy Spirit, but inasmuch as it is done by the disciples under the direction of the Holy Spirit, it is said that the Spirit baptizes. God sent his Son, his Son sent the Holy Spirit as the abiding guest of the church of God, and he is ever present to guide and help every one walking under the guidance of the word of God. If we could realize that in deed and in truth Jesus baptizes every one that is baptized according to his will, that we are baptized by the directions of the Spirit, that this is God's work, it would be a security and safety to us, and would help us to walk with him that he might be our God and dwell in and with us.
Some expositors think that being baptized in one Spirit refers to the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The example of the body led by one Spirit does not bear this interpretation. For it could not be said that they were all made to drink of one Spirit if they had all been baptized or overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit as the apostles had been on the day of Pentecost. Beside this, there is no evidence that all the disciples at Corinth had been baptized in the Holy Spirit. There is no evidence whatever that any of them had been.
Gospel Advocate Commentaries - New Testament Commentary – A Commentary on the New Testament Epistles: First Corinthians.

I'm leary of commentaries. I've not seen anything in Scripture that teaches that the Holy Spirit baptizes.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: Christ in you..

And as mentioned E, if you can't see (or more importantly KNOW) that Christ is in you, then you shouldn't be in a Christian forum arguing your position here... which is sheer nonsense.. that the HOLY SPIRIT is not given today ? ? ?

Every born again Christian here knows how absurd that is... although at the same time it would be impossible for you to know the difference if you're not born again and do not have Christ in you.

The issue was never about Christ being in the Christian or the Christian being in Christ. My argument was about baptism with the HS and that it does not even exist today, it does not save, it was never commanded to anyone to obey.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: Christ in you..

How about Eph 1:13... for the 100th time... what does SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION unto the PRAISE OF HIS GLORY mean to YOU ?

You have failed to prove that Eph 1:13 is baptism with the HS, you just claim and assume it is.


In Eph 1:1-9 Paul said many times that the Ephesians were spiritually located "in Him" or "in Christ". How did the Ephesians get "in Christ"? What verse says baptism with the HS puts one "in Christ"?

 

[Mitspa]

Re: Christ in you..

You have failed to prove that Eph 1:13 is baptism with the HS, you just claim and assume it is.


In Eph 1:1-9 Paul said many times that the Ephesians were spiritually located "in Him" or "in Christ". How did the Ephesians get "in Christ"? What verse says baptism with the HS puts one "in Christ"?

Of course it is! :yes

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

1 Corinthians 12:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

It is my understanding we are discussing what this baptism is and if it is the same baptism that takes place in Acts. My english grammer and parts of speech is rusty to say the least but I think this would be correct.
we-noun, all-adj, baptized-verb, one Spirit-adverb
We are all baptized by one Spirit.
Jeremiah 2:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Here God is saying that He is the fountain of living water.
John 4:10 and 14
King James Version (KJV)
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
John 7:38
King James Version (KJV)

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.


continued on next post - not enough space

1 Cor 12:13 is verse referring to the Corinthians being born again. Jesus speaks of the new birth in Jn 3:5:

Jn 3:5-------Spirit++++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1cor12:13---Spirit++++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>in the body

How much more plainer can it be made that baptized in 1 Cor 12:13 is referring to water baptism? 'Spirit' is equivalent to 'spirit' just as 'in the kingdom' is equivalent to 'in the body' as 'water' is equivalent to 'baptized'. To claim baptized in 1 Cor 12:13 is something other than water baptism creates contradiction among verses and creates more than one way to be saved. What type of baptism did Paul baptize some of the Corinthians with in 1 Cor 1:14,16? Water baptism.

1 Cor 6:11 "And such were some of you: but ye are washed,.." Again washed (middle voice) is another reference to having been water baptized, the middle voice showing they of their own will chose to obey/submit themselves to water baptism, they were not passively baptized with the HS by God. Washed is where their past sins were washed away by the blood of Christ in baptism for water baptism remits sins and nowhere does the bible say baptism with the HS remits or washes away sins.


1 Cor 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body,..."


The Spirit baptizes the same way Christ baptized:

Jn 4:1,2 "When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)"


Verse 1 says Jesus baptized but verse 2 says Jesus baptized not. This is not a contradiction for Jesus did not baptize anyone Himself personally but baptized by giving His authority to His disciples to baptize. The HS baptizes the same way, the HS does not baptize anyone Himself personally but by His word He has authorized the disciples to baptize as Paul was authorized to water baptize, 1 Cor 1:14,16. Just as the HS authorized Phillip to go and water baptize the eunuch. If one's understanding is miraculously "illuminated" by the Spirit apart from the word and baptized personally by the Spirit then why did not the HS just miracuously "illuminate" the undestanding of the eunuch and the eunuch be "spirit baptized" by the HS? Yet the HS sent Phillip to give understanding to the euncuh through the word and authorized Phillip to water baptize the eunuch for this is how salvation takes place. One is drawn by the word of God when he, like the eunuch, is taught, hears and learns the word of God then he comes to Christ, Jn 6:45 as the eunuch came to Christ by his obedience in submitting to water baptism per Christ's words of Mk 16:16.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: Christ in you..

Of course it is! :yes

Proof?