What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

A Theological and Exegetical Examination of Holy Spirit Baptism

Re: Christ in you..

Ernest T. Bass said:
But God's word does not say Eph 1:13 is baptism with the HS. So what do you do now?
Click to expand...

I had the pleasure of doing an online collaboration with other believers years ago to see 'how many ways' scriptures present to 'be saved.'

The list of scriptures and variations numbered well into the 60's statements ranging from as simple as a righteous work, like getting a reward for providing a cup of cold water to a gauntlet of requirements.

Everyone of them scripturally legit. Or perhaps only 1 or 2 in the eyes of some. Just depends on how bad you want to make it for the other believers who don't believe like you.

I came to see these as nothing more than the limitations in the eyes and hearts of the beholders and nothing much more than that.

s
 
Re: Christ in you..

smaller said:
I had the pleasure of doing an online collaboration with other believers years ago to see 'how many ways' scriptures present to 'be saved.'

The list of scriptures and variations numbered well into the 60's statements ranging from as simple as a righteous work, like getting a reward for providing a cup of cold water to a gauntlet of requirements.

Everyone of them scripturally legit. Or perhaps only 1 or 2 in the eyes of some. Just depends on how bad you want to make it for the other believers who don't believe like you.

I came to see these as nothing more than the limitations in the eyes and hearts of the beholders and nothing much more than that.

s
Click to expand...


There is only one way to be saved.

From 1 Pet 3:21 baptism saves, From Rom 10:9,10 belief and confession saves. From Lk 13:3,5 repentance saves. Since there is just one way to be saved, then belief only does not save, confession only does not save, repentance only does not save nor baptism only does not sav....it takes all; belief, repentance, confession and baptism to be saved. The issue in this thread is which type of baptism saves. No verse say baptism with the HS saves/remits sins so that eliminates this baptism.
 
Re: Christ in you..

Ernest T. Bass said:
There is only one way to be saved.

From 1 Pet 3:21 baptism saves, From Rom 10:9,10 belief and confession saves. From Lk 13:3,5 repentance saves. Since there is just one way to be saved, then belief only does not save, confession only does not save, repentance only does not save nor baptism only does not sav....it takes all; belief, repentance, confession and baptism to be saved. The issue in this thread is which type of baptism saves. No verse say baptism with the HS saves/remits sins so that eliminates this baptism.
Click to expand...

One Way, many reflections therein.

Romans 8:24
For we are saved by hope

1 Peter 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved

Psalm 34:18
The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

Psalm 54:1
Save me, O God, by thy name,

Psalm 55:16
As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.

Psalm 69:35
For God will save Zion

Psalm 72:4
He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.

Psalm 72:13
He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.

Psalm 80:7
Turn us again, O God of hosts, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

Psalm 86:2
Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

This can go on substantially MORE.

Our God is in fact AN AWESOME GOD.

But we are warned off of blocking the Gates of Heaven as well:

Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Exactly NO ONE set you at that Gate by your limited and entirely subjective filters. That is the action of those upon whom JESUS proclaimed WOE!

I'd suggest that the gates of Heaven in the hands of His Children are in fact FLUNG OPEN and MUCH WIDER than many are able to see.

Matthew 22:
Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

Some will do as they see and are LED.

s
 
Whats so wrong with just simply doing what God says do? When He says "believe", DO IT! When He says "repent", DO IT! When He says "confess" the Christ, DO IT! When He says "baptized for the remission of sins", DO IT! When He says "love one another", DO IT! and on and on. WHY quibble with anything God says DO?
 
Webb said:
Whats so wrong with just simply doing what God says do? When He says "believe", DO IT! When He says "repent", DO IT! When He says "confess" the Christ, DO IT! When He says "baptized for the remission of sins", DO IT! When He says "love one another", DO IT! and on and on. WHY quibble with anything God says DO?
Click to expand...

That would be too easy...some think they are above God's Law.
 
Webb said:
Whats so wrong with just simply doing what God says do? When He says "believe", DO IT! When He says "repent", DO IT! When He says "confess" the Christ, DO IT! When He says "baptized for the remission of sins", DO IT! When He says "love one another", DO IT! and on and on. WHY quibble with anything God says DO?
Click to expand...

Why quibble with a single way and insist on every jot and tittle as you might see it?

I can certainly understand why 'you' or any others want to 'be safe' but you can do everything you 'think' you see and another may do only ONE THING and still make it.

You however by the myriad of methods have done nothing but turned salvation into a myriad of LAWS and exactingly performed EXTERNAL specifications and if not, BANG!

It's the same trap that the Pharisees fell into. Exactly the same.

In the ears of a Pharisee, those who call upon the Lord Jesus Christ in faith to save them ARE NOT SAVED.

And these instead seek only to burn alive forever those in faith over their additional and entirely subjective lists of requirements, setting themselves up as GATE BLOCKERS to Heaven.

No one sits at the entrance but JESUS. You and I are not Jesus, but at least one of us is not interested in making things difficult. And in some sects they can't even say for sure if people are saved, only a big MAYBE. And they keep them coming back week after week to renew their MAYBE tickets.

Such are the guarantors of uncertainty and doubt and not a bit more.

Are you saved? Well, maybe not if after you believe you don't do:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I'd say they forgot about simple faith and their gates are filled with subjective potential damnation spikes that they make people crawl over.

Their heaven is nothing more than trying to drag out of a gulag.

s
 
Hi Smaller

Let me get this straight now, wasn't it Jesus Who said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments"? Which shall we ignore? Did that statement make Him a Pharisee?
 
Webb said:
Hi Smaller

Let me get this straight now, wasn't it Jesus Who said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments"? Which shall we ignore? Did that statement make Him a Pharisee?
Click to expand...

Then you should be forced to drag yourSELF over each and every of the 613 precepts of LAW and add in all the verbal components as well, plus each and every 'new' way that you conjure up in the N.T. as well.

And you should try to drag as many people as you can over all those jots and tittles, every last one of them. And should you miss a single one, WOE unto you.

s
 
Webb said:
BTW Smaller, what "jots and tiddles" did you have in mind?

webb, as usual
Click to expand...

Hi Webb,

I would just rather respond to you as you understand it as it is!

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matt 5:18 (KJV)

Jesus declares again his attitude toward the law and the prophets. "Till heaven and earth pass away" is another way of saying that "the law or the prophets" shall not pass away until all are fulfilled in the minutest detail. The law shall last till the new order of things is brought into force; the prophets shall stand until their predictions become history. "Jot" is for the Hebrew letter "jod," which is the smallest letter in the Hebrew alphabet. "Tittle" is the little bend or point which serves to distinguish certain Hebrew letters of similar appearance. The Jews were familiar with the expression used by Jesus. Everything else may change, but the word of God expressed by either "the law" or "the prophets" must stand until it has accomplished that which God intended. All shall stand "till all things be accomplished." Some make a distinction between "fulfilled" and "accomplished"; they are not the same words in the original. Jesus meant to say that the law should remain in full force until it shall have accomplished that which God intended it to accomplish. The law seems to have had a twofold termination, a negative and a positive; negatively, it terminated with the old Jewish nation; positively, it is realized in the new and spiritual kingdom, which Jesus inaugurated.—Gospel Advocate Commentaries
 
Well Smaller, as you should know, when Jesus used the phrase "every jot and tittle" he was referring to the old law of which not being a Jew I (as all Gentiles) was never under in the first place. Nor do I attempt to "drag" (as you call it) anyone under it.

But you missed the entire thrust of my point. Its not the "law" and its "jots and tittles" but the Christ who said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments", Jn.14:15. Did you notice its Jesus who said that? And do you notice as well its His commandments? Not those of the law? Sir, if you are going to represent me please do not MISSrepresent. Now, having cleared up that point I shall ask you again, WHICH of Jesus commands will you ignore?

webb, as usual
 
Webb said:
Well Smaller, as you should know, when Jesus used the phrase "every jot and tittle" he was referring to the old law of which not being a Jew I (as all Gentiles) was never under in the first place. Nor do I attempt to "drag" (as you call it) anyone under it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I call that the 'common cop out.'

Jesus said this about The Word of God and 'how many' of them MAN, not just JEW, are to live by, unless of course in your filter MAN means JEW only:

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

It's always interesting to see just 'how many' Words of Jesus believers are willing or able to hear or shut off entirely.

But you missed the entire thrust of my point. Its not the "law" and its "jots and tittles" but the Christ who said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments", Jn.14:15. Did you notice its Jesus who said that? And do you notice as well its His commandments? Not those of the law?
Click to expand...

Then I'd simply point you to Romans 13:8-10 and see that obviously Paul also taught IDENTICALLY to what Jesus said above, and even if you can't manage to see the facts of it.

Sir, if you are going to represent me please do not MISSrepresent. Now, having cleared up that point I shall ask you again, WHICH of Jesus commands will you ignore?
Click to expand...

You put up 'keep the commandments.' I commented. No misrepresenting whatsoever other than to show you in fact wiped out nearly all of what you say to keep in the process.

s
 
Hi Smaller

All you have to do to prove your point is show where the law was given to anyone but the Jew. Come on, do it. I'm speaking of the law of Moses, of course.

I agree with every word Paul wrote in Rom.13. Do you not know that all of the 10 commandments were carried over from the OT and into the NT with the exeption of the 4th? Whats mentioned by Paul in Rom.13 are some of the 10 commandments carried over into the new: (1) adultery; (2) kill; (3) steal; (4) false witness; and (5) covet.

webb, respectfully
 
Webb said:
Hi Smaller

All you have to do to prove your point is show where the law was given to anyone but the Jew. Come on, do it. I'm speaking of the law of Moses, of course.
Click to expand...

It was Jesus Himself who gave the Law of Moses. It was Jesus Himself who said that man, not just JEW, will live by how many of HIS Words?

ALL OF THEM. I really don't see any exceptions granted quite frankly.

But Paul wrote that there are certain ones that can not do this:

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

I agree with every word Paul wrote in Rom.13. Do you not know that all of the 10 commandments were carried over from the OT and into the NT with the exeption of the 4th?
Click to expand...

Uh, no, there are zero exceptions.

Paul clearly said that if there be ANY COMMANDMENT how it should be comprehended and more importantly LIVED by every one of us who believe.

s
 
BornAgain said:
Exodus 19:20 20:22.
Click to expand...

????

I do take it that most believers know that there is ZERO difference between the Words of God in the Old Testament and Jesus, God in Flesh, speaking in the New Testament.

We are not engaged with a different God ourselves. It's the same One Lord.

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

s
 
smaller said:
It was Jesus Himself who gave the Law of Moses. It was Jesus Himself who said that man, not just JEW, will live by how many of HIS Word


Now Smaller, you've go 2 things to do: (1) Show where Moses law was given to any other than the Jew, which as I've stated before, you cannot do. (2) Show it was Jesus Himself (Jesus only) who gave the law to Moses.

Some folk think every time they see the word "spirit" it means baptism of the Holy Spirit, and some folk think everytime they see "law" it refers to Moses.

Inasmuch as Moses law was given only to the Jew he had to live by every word of it. God told Noah to build an ark. Thats part of God's word. Better learn how to "rightly divide the word of truth" or get busy building your ark.
Click to expand...
 
smaller said:
????

I do take it that most believers know that there is ZERO difference between the Words of God in the Old Testament and Jesus, God in Flesh, speaking in the New Testament.

We are not engaged with a different God ourselves. It's the same One Lord.

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

s
Click to expand...

God spoke to Moses and gave him the Law. God is not flesh. Jesus in the flesh came to fulfill the Old Law and nail it to the cross...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top