A Theological and Exegetical Examination of Holy Spirit Baptism

[smaller]

It was Jesus Himself who gave the Law of Moses. It was Jesus Himself who said that man, not just JEW, will live by how many of HIS Words?

Now Smaller, you've go 2 things to do: (1) Show where Moses law was given to any other than the Jew,

Just did. Jesus Himself said that man, not just JEW, will live by HOW MANY of Gods Words?

ALL OF THEM. Every single jot and tittle.

And cited that same exact teaching by Paul as well.

which as I've stated before, you cannot do. (2) Show it was Jesus Himself (Jesus only) who gave the law to Moses.

Perhaps it is you who should say that it was a DIFFERENT LORD GOD than God in Flesh, Jesus, who gave THE WORD of God in the Old Testament?

You wouldn't be the first believer who thought that fwiw.

It was in fact The Spirit of Christ Himself who spoke through both LAW and PROPHETS.

1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Peter 1:
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Mark 12:36
For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Acts 1:16
Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Hebrews 4:
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them

I could go on and on from the Word, but hopefully you get the picture?

Some folk think every time they see the word "spirit" it means baptism of the Holy Spirit, and some folk think everytime they see "law" it refers to Moses.

There are ZERO legitimate ways to SEPARATE the Word of the Lord, the Word of God, the Word of the Holy Spirit and the Word of Jesus Christ in the entirety of the scriptures. They are all ONE LORD and ONE WORD.

Inasmuch as Moses law was given only to the Jew he had to live by every word of it. God told Noah to build an ark. Thats part of God's word. Better learn how to "rightly divide the word of truth" or get busy building your ark.

There are many many more N.T. scriptures that will show the SAME THINGS as above. Many. I'm rather surprised you don't seem to know them.

s

 

[smaller]

God spoke to Moses and gave him the Law. God is not flesh. Jesus in the flesh came to fulfill the Old Law and nail it to the cross...

There is exactly zero difference between Jesus, Word made flesh and God, the Lord's Words in the Old Testament.

Even the everyday Orthodox accept this as a fact, and site numerous O.T. Words of God in the Nicene Creed for example.

It's a pretty fundamental understanding.

s

 

[BornAgain]

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

s

Now these things happened unto them by way of example;—In the days of the patriarchs and of Moses, God gave the law, and then applied the law to the facts and conditions as they arose in the workings of human affairs.


and they were written for our admonition,—They were written for examples and instruction to the world for all succeeding time, to teach how God deals with man and how he applies his own law.

 

[BornAgain]

There is exactly zero difference between Jesus, Word made flesh and God, the Lord's Words in the Old Testament.

Even the everyday Orthodox accept this as a fact, and site numerous O.T. Words of God in the Nicene Creed for example.

It's a pretty fundamental understanding.

s

There is where confusion comes in...if you begin listening to creeds and doctrines of men instead of the bible it causes division and confusion.

 

[BornAgain]

There is exactly zero difference between Jesus, Word made flesh and God, the Lord's Words in the Old Testament.

Even the everyday Orthodox accept this as a fact, and site numerous O.T. Words of God in the Nicene Creed for example.

It's a pretty fundamental understanding.

s

In the Roman Catholic Church, the Nicene Creed is part of the profession of faithhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed#cite_note-2 required of those undertaking important functions within the Church.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed#cite_note-3

 

[smaller]

There is where confusion comes in...if you begin listening to creeds and doctrines of men instead of the bible it causes division and confusion.

Uh, yeah, I think you kind of entirely missed the observation made from my post:

"There is exactly zero difference between Jesus, Word made flesh and God, the Lord's Words in the Old Testament."

I only cited the creed matter as the bold above is 'commonly held' and understood.

s

 

[BornAgain]

Uh, yeah, I think you kind of entirely missed the observation made from my post:

"There is exactly zero difference between Jesus, Word made flesh and God, the Lord's Words in the Old Testament."

I only cited the creed matter as the bold above is 'commonly held' and understood.

s

He who was eternal became flesh in the incarnation. Understood...

 

[smaller]

He who was eternal became flesh in the incarnation. Understood...

Many do not see that the scriptures/The Word, preached the Gospel to Abraham:

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

And to Israel of the O.T.:

Hebrews 3:
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
4:
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them

The really amazing part is that all but TWO, Joshua and Caleb, over the age of 20 actually DIED in the desert, of UNbelief no less, and this inclusive of both Moses and Aaron!

And that even after all those physical manifestations of our Living God.

Amazing, I say, AHHHmazing. If they still did not believe after ALL of that....
who really stands a prayer?

Malachi 3:2
But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

s

 

[Webb]

Hi Smaller, in resonse to your # 341:

You've tried and failed. You yet have to: (1) show where Moses law was given to others besides the Jew; (2) Prove it was Jesus only who gave the law to Moses. We shall briefly note the above.

(1) In asking you for proof Moses law was given to others than the Jew, surely you can come up with something better than "man shall live by every word that proceeds outof the mouth of God." Was the Jew a "man"? If so, that answers that. But, wait, theres more! Again, where is scriptural proof the law of Moses was given to anyone else? I shall continue to press. What did you have to say about Noah? Silence! Better get started on that ark Smaller. Or, when was the last time you offered animal sacrifice? That was under Moses law. I've got some cattle and I'll give you a decent price for one to offer as sacrifice. And on and on I could go, but you get the point.

(2) If you say Jesus alone composes the godhead, I conclude you are wrong. None of the passages you cited shows that at all. I think I said something in my last post about "rightly dividing the word of God".

Till then, I remain respectfully yours--webb

 

[smaller]

Hi Smaller, in resonse to your # 341:

You've tried and failed. You yet have to: (1) show where Moses law was given to others besides the Jew;

Moses' Law was Gods Word.

Why don't you start with that fact first?

Then tell my why what Jesus said about ALL of Gods Word being applicable to MAN is not TRUE?

We've already done the 'my name is Webb and I don't directly engage much of anything put before me' tricks already in this thread. Your methods of communications lack.

yawn...

s

 

[Webb]

Moses' Law was Gods Word.

Why don't you start with that fact first


Yes, Moses' law was God's word. Who questions that? I don't. I think this is not the fourth time I'm asking you to show that that law was given to anyone else but the Jew. Sir, I have started with "that fact first" several times now.

 

[Mitspa]

Mar 16:17

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18

They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

totopic

 

[smaller]

Yes, Moses' law was God's word. Who questions that? I don't. I think this is not the fourth time I'm asking you to show that that law was given to anyone else but the Jew. Sir, I have started with "that fact first" several times now.

Proposing to somehow separate Gods Words from Gods Words i.e. Old Testament from New Testament is problematic. The Old Testament Words of God are cited as the basis of teaching for the entirety of the N.T.

Every Word of God is meant for MAN from Gods Own Mouth.

If some can't see it Gods Word on that didn't change and won't.

Paul:

Acts 24:14
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Any different than what Jesus said? Nope.

s

 

[Webb]

Hi Smaller, your post 353--You cite Paul in Acts 24:14. I stand with Paul beliving every word he wrote. I too believe all things written in the law and prophets. Funny thing though, the verse does NOT say anything about keeping the law today. Paul didn't upon becoming a Christian. I don't because I'm not a Jew nationally, and the gentile was never under the law anyway. Sorry, Charlie, the verse doesn't say what you want it to.

Now, for the 5th time I'm asking for scripture teaching the gentiles were ever under Moses' law.

Have a blest night, webb

 

[smaller]

Hi Smaller, your post 353--You cite Paul in Acts 24:14. I stand with Paul beliving every word he wrote. I too believe all things written in the law and prophets.

Great! What's yer beef again?

Funny thing though, the verse does NOT say anything about keeping the law today.

Ah, I see. You believe everything written in the law and the prophets concluding you to NOT to believe same? Is this your final answer? :eeeekkk

Let's have a very minor look at what is in the Law from the Law Giver Himself:

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

We wanna scratch those from the list of N.T. positions?

No judgment, No mercy, No faith?

Did you get the memo about the N.T. being preached from where? Ah, yeah, the OLD.

Paul didn't upon becoming a Christian.

What? You think he was lying when he said he believed ALL that is written in the Law and the Prophets? Perhaps we can re-write him to say he believed all that is written in the Law and the Prophets should not be believed? Quite funny.

Don't you know that if The Spirit of Christ lives in you, so does EVERY WORD of God?

Maybe you missed the memo?

Hebrews 4:
12 For the word of God is alive and active

I don't because I'm not a Jew nationally, and the gentile was never under the law anyway. Sorry, Charlie, the verse doesn't say what you want it to.

Any cop out will do when one doesn't care to hear The Word.

Now, for the 5th time I'm asking for scripture teaching the gentiles were ever under Moses' law.

Law, you don't see no LAW? How many times do we need to go round in circles?

Romans 13:
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet;

[See any Law yet? Are all those things perfectly fine and OK now? ]

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Do we scratch LOVE too? How about 'any commandment?' Should we wipe out any and every commandment in the entire text?

We can commit adultery, steal, kill, covet, bear false witness, NOT LOVE and we are all hunky dory?

Prolly not, wouldn't you say?

Nah, I don't see no LAW, when I DON'T WANT TO SEE.

G'nite

s

 

[Mitspa]

1Co 12:4

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:5

And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Co 12:6

And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Co 12:7

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8

For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9

To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10

To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
:scared

 

[Webb]

Hi Smaller

You do lots of writing, mostly without biblical application as apparently you do not know what it means to rightly divide the word of truth as Paul so instructs. Do you not know what a testament or will is? It seems not. Much of what you write has been brought over from the OT into the NT. No disagreement about that.

You have yet to show how any but the Jew was given the old law. If the gentile was not under Moses law he was not obligated. I continue to press this upon you. So then, as asked before, when are you going to begin building your ark? While Noah was prior to the giving of the lawt he command was from out of the mouth of God. Get busy, its late. But the command of animal sacrifice and going to Jerusalem to worship was under that old law etc. So, Smaller, I've got a healthy Brahma bull I'll sell to you for your sacrifice, and I've got some "flyer miles" I'll donate if you need help getting to Jerusalem. Sometimes oversimplification helps the blind to see.

The next time you post me I will expect you to come up with proof that the gentile was under Moses law. I think this is the 6th time its been requested of you.

God bless

 

[smaller]

Hi Smaller

You do lots of writing, mostly without biblical application

See what you see or don't. Not my call.

s

 

[Blev]

Cyberjosh

I'd like to hear more about what you have to say on this subject. There are so many rabbit trails on here its ridiculous and very hard to wade through.

I haven't seen you on here for over a week. Are you going to share more of this with us?

Thanks for starting this thread.

 

[Webb]

Smaller

Your call is to find where the gentile was ever under the law of Moses. No cop outs please. Is this now the 7th time I've asked? If you didn't like my Brahma I've got two other breeds. You are going to have to do something about that sacrifice one way or another becauae the command for that proceeded straight from the mouth of the God of heaven.