An honest Calvinist view of Total Depravity.

[brightfame52]

Almost.


Regeneration, being born again is what happens when someone hears and believes the Gospel, not just hears the Gospel.


Jesus says it this way —


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

The ones by the wayside did indeed hear, but they did not believe.


Believe = Saved







JLB

One has to be already regenerated in order to hear and believe the Gospel, or else they cant hear and believe it with spiritual hearing.

According to Jesus who is it that hears Gods word Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[JLB]

JLB



Belief is used as a noun here in regards to belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Yes belief is a noun.


However we are not discussing the word belief, we are discussing the word believe.



JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Please show us the scripture that says God gives us the faith to believe, (which does not make sense) and we did nothing.


God speaks and we receive faith.

We either respond by obeying or disobeying.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8



JLB

Until one is changed and given a new heart to obey, they are naturally children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Until regenerated, theres a spirit if disobedience controlling us

 

[JLB]

One has to be already regenerated in order to hear and believe the Gospel, or else they cant hear and believe it with spiritual hearing.

According to Jesus who is it that hears Gods word Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Great all you have to do now is post the scripture that says people are saved and regenerated before they believe the Gospel.

Obviously John 8:47 doesn’t say that.


Here are is the context of the passage you quoted.


Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32


Jesus was speaking to Jews who believed in Him but would not confess Him as LORD.

In the end of His talk with them they would attempt to murder Him for saying He was LORD: I AM.


No where in scripture does it say we are saved before we hear and believe the Gospel.




JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Yes belief is a noun.


However we are not discussing the word belief, we are discussing the word believe.



JLB

So belief of the Truth is Faith

 

[brightfame52]

Great all you have to do now is post the scripture that says people are saved and regenerated before they believe the Gospel.

Obviously John 8:47 doesn’t say that.


Here are is the context of the passage you quoted.


Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32


Jesus was speaking to Jews who believed in Him but would not confess Him as LORD.

In the end of His talk with them they would attempt to murder Him for saying He was LORD: I AM.


No where in scripture does it say we are saved before we hear and believe the Gospel.




JLB

Who is it according to Jesus who hears the word of God Jn 8:47

 

[brightfame52]

JLB

Great all you have to do now is post the scripture that says people are saved and regenerated before they believe the Gospel.

All you need to do is post a scripture that says "people are not saved and regenerated until after they believe the Gospel."

 

[JLB]

Until one is changed and given a new heart to obey, they are naturally children of disobedience Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Until regenerated, theres a spirit if disobedience controlling us

We receive a change of nature when we are born again.

However the only way to be born again is to believe the Gospel.

We are enabled to believe because of His grace, which is the power of the Holy Spirit that is present when the Gospel is preached.

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation FOR EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16


Please explain how a person who has never heard the Gospel can be saved?





JLB

 

[electedbyhim]

Please show us the scripture that says God gives us the faith to believe, (which does not make sense) and we did nothing.


God speaks and we receive faith.

We either respond by obeying or disobeying.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8



JLB

JLB said:

Faith comes from God when He speaks to us.

Believe is a verb. Believe is what we do in response to God speaking to us, by which we receive faith.

I said

So, God gives us the faith to believe. We did nothing.

JLB said:

Please show us the scripture that says God gives us the faith to believe, (which does not make sense) and we did nothing.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[electedbyhim]

Great all you have to do now is post the scripture that says people are saved and regenerated before they believe the Gospel.

Obviously John 8:47 doesn’t say that.


Here are is the context of the passage you quoted.


Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32


Jesus was speaking to Jews who believed in Him but would not confess Him as LORD.

In the end of His talk with them they would attempt to murder Him for saying He was LORD: I AM.


No where in scripture does it say we are saved before we hear and believe the Gospel.




JLB

You need to look as salavation as a whole from begining to end of the Bible.

Please look into the doctrine of soteriology.

Study prayerfully the two sides of this theology. The Arminian (your position) and the Reformed view (what we believe).

One makes man sovereign in salvation with God and the other makes God soverein in salavation.

Tell me, who should get all the glory?

 

[JLB]

Who is it according to Jesus who hears the word of God Jn 8:47

People who are of God can understand His teaching.

Those who are not yet born again must be regenerated through believing and therefore obeying the Gospel before they can understand His teaching.


Do you believe the context is the Gospel?


Do you believe Saul of Tarsus was already born again when Jesus appeared to Him?



JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB said:


I said


JLB said:


Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Yes. The faith through which we are saved comes through hearing the Gospel.

When we believe then we are saved.


The point is we must first hear the the Gospel to receive faith.

When we respond by believing we are saved.



No where are people saved apart from hearing and believing the Gospel.

 

[JLB]

You need to look as salavation as a whole from begining to end of the Bible.

Please look into the doctrine of soteriology.

Study prayerfully the two sides of this theology. The Arminian (your position) and the Reformed view (what we believe).

One makes man sovereign in salvation with God and the other makes God soverein in salavation.

Tell me, who should get all the glory?

A person is saved by hearing and believing the Gospel.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

• whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved

JLB

 

[electedbyhim]

Yes. The faith through which we are saved comes through hearing the Gospel.

When we believe then we are saved.


The point is we must first hear the the Gospel to receive faith.

When we respond by believing we are saved.



No where are people saved apart from hearing and believing the Gospel.

The point is we must first hear the the Gospel to receive faith.

I have said this before.

The Bible teaches humans are dead in sin and trespasses. They are at emnity with God and want nothing to do with Him.

How can a dead man accept the things of God?

 

[electedbyhim]

A person is saved by hearing and believing the Gospel.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

• whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved

JLB

whoever believes

These are God's elect that have been called and regenerated to believe.

Ephesians 2:4-5 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

 

[brightfame52]

We receive a change of nature when we are born again.

However the only way to be born again is to believe the Gospel.

We are enabled to believe because of His grace, which is the power of the Holy Spirit that is present when the Gospel is preached.

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation FOR EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16


Please explain how a person who has never heard the Gospel can be saved?





JLB

Until you are born again, you cant obey.

Those who are in the flesh cant obey or please God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[brightfame52]

People who are of God can understand His teaching.

Those who are not yet born again must be regenerated through believing and therefore obeying the Gospel before they can understand His teaching.


Do you believe the context is the Gospel?


Do you believe Saul of Tarsus was already born again when Jesus appeared to Him?



JLB

Only those who are God can hear His words, the Gospel is Gods Gospel, Gods word

 

[Whatever]

Please show us the scripture that says God gives us the faith to believe

Again, you won't accept it, but:
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God

Everybody argues over what the "that" is referring to. But if as most say "it is referring to the whole "by grace you have been saved" it becomes a redundancy, something unnecessary cause nobody would challenge that.
But if it is the faith itself that is a gift, then it becomes something monumental.

Act 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Only as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed and no more. They must have been given the gift of faith.

 

[Whatever]

Yes Cornelius was already saved from the penalty of sins and he was already saved by regeneration given a new heart that fears God, yet he had not heard the Gospel,

Well, what is the "gospel"? Isn't it good news? He was living with the Jews and knew all about Jewish expectation of the Messiah and had heard all the talk of a Jesus who had been crucified. To me Cornelius had heard the good news and was now praying for God to send somebody to explain it to him.

 

[Whatever]

The ones by the wayside did indeed hear, but they did not believe.

Yes, but you have to understand the whole parable.
Luk 8:15 But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.

Where did those guys get this noble and good heart?