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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Wearing the right shoes, and properly clothed spiritually?
Join Elected By Him for a devotional on Ephesians 6:14-15
https://christianforums.net/threads/devotional-selecting-the-proper-shoes.109094/
An honest Calvinist view of Total Depravity.
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
?????
In Westminster Shorter Catechism QQ. 30–31 the application of redemption is attributed to a particular work of God denominated effectual calling: “The Spirit applies to us the redemption purchased by Christ, by working faith in us, and thereby uniting us to Christ in our effectual calling.”
Faith requires something to be believed.
The "gospel" is the content of "faith" (Rom. 10:17 faith cometh by hearing)
"Regeneration" is the working of "faith" (WCF) which is belief in the "gospel".
So you believe in "regeneration" without faith ... so, potentially a person could be regenerated on Tuesday and die on Wednesday, be in heaven upon dying and be there having no faith?
It does not make sense to me.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
The Gospel is hid to them that are lost resulting in unbelief 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
The lost are blinded into unbelief. The only way to believe the Gospel is to be saved, regenerated.
BTW if one doesnt believe TULIP Truths, they dont believe the Gospel anyway.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Fastfredy0
Faith is the fruit of regeneration. Its the fruit of the Spirit. Cant have Faith if unregenerate friend.
Faith is the fruit of regeneration. Its the fruit of the Spirit. Cant have Faith if unregenerate friend.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Sounds like you believe in faith without regeneration. That means Faith came from the unregenerate heart, that doesnt make sense to me, Spiritual sense.
Your original statement:
Your response to my query about your original statement
??????????????? how is this response an answer to one being regenerated (born again) without hearing the gospel which is the foundation to faith ?????? You lost me again.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
You see what I believe the scripture teaches, what else you want ?
Yah, I believe the scripture teaches too ... but that is yet another subject ...
Re:
So, according to you one can be born again (regenerated) without knowledge of Christ (without the gospel). This is a new theory I never heard of.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Yeah initially when one is born of the Spirit, they may not even have heard the Gospel yet. Like Cornelius, he was regenerated, feared God prior to Peter preaching the Gospel to him
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
One is regenerated when God gives them a New Heart by the Spirit, that comes as a result of the resurrection of Christ 1 Pet 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. In God’s great mercy he has caused us to be born again into a living hope, because Jesus Christ rose from the dead. NCV
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,KJV
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,LEB
Maybe you need to reread ACTS 10
Peter presents the gospel:
39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
Cornelius is Regenerated (note: Regeneration came AFTER hearing the gospel)
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
So, your proof has fallen apart.
Aside: It is not the best idea to use narrative sections of scripture to form doctrine. That is why I quoted Rom. 10:16 But they did not all pay attention to the good news [of salvation]; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So faith comes from hearing [what is told] ... which states a precursor (cause) of faith is hearing the gospel
True enough, but does not address the crux of our disagreement which is: You say one can be regenerated without hearing the gospel.
This infers that David Livingstone could go to Africa to preach the gospel to them for the first time and he might find out 30% of the people who never heard of Christ had already been regenerated. It DOES NOT make sense.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Im good with acts 10. I know the natural man doesnt fear God Rom 3:18
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
No natural man has his prayers accepted of God Acts 10:4
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
No natural man worketh righteousness Acts 10 35
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
I rest my case, regeneration takes place before one hears and believes the Gospel
Again, you refuse to address the subject at hand which is: You say one can be regenerated without hearing the gospel.
You state that the story of Cornelius shows how Cornelius was regenerated and subsequently heard the gospel. I response by listing verses Acts 10:39-45 which contradicts you thesis and you do not dispute my reasoning but go off on a tangent on other irrelevant verses.
LOL .... well, I hope we have a jury trial as I feel very confident I would win.
Yes. In God's mind. I believe each elect persons parents and even the specific sperm and egg was foreordained.
Too Much Information ... LOL
(I agree)
No, but I have heard of Baptismal regeneration. Where a person is born again in the water. The person goes in a sinner and comes out a saint.
Of course. Who is God electing but a specific person. It guarantees that this person's mother and father and the specific sperm and egg will produce him at the exact place and time God chooses. Then he will not die from any cause until God decides.
Living Bible
Psalm 139:16 You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!
Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."
Living Bible
Psalm 139:16 You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!
Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."