Don't deists believe what the bible says ?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Are Christians Sinners?
- Thread starter F345T
- Start date
No, the point of the entire thread is that the Bible defines "sinners" very differently than the modern popular definition that is coupled, God forbid, with Christians.
There have been many verses posted to make this point and they are being ignored across the board.
That's find. I'll continue to post them over and over - and add more to them. The Bible is loaded with verses that show that Christians are not sinners. I know that those here who are deaf-earing these verses now will not relent, but others are reading along and 'some' will get the message - God willing.
The Bible is clear that it is not okay to be a Christian and proudly embrace being a sinner.
No sinner will darken the gates of Heaven with his shadow.
"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful."
Psalm 1:1
"Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
Psalm 1:5-6
Sinners are clearly not among Christians in God's eyes.
"The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity (sinners)."
Psalm 5:5
"Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, ... And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."
Matt. 7:22-23
Iniquity is the breaking of the Commandments of God. John tells us in 1 Jn. 3:4 that the very definition of sin is the breaking of the 10 Commandments. Therefore, a worker of iniquity is someone who sins openly and willingly and spreads that sin behavior among the people, working that leaven into the surrounding dough.
True Christians are not sinners, nor workers of iniquity, as we see clearly above.
Psalm 5:5
"Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, ... And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."
Matt. 7:22-23
Iniquity is the breaking of the Commandments of God. John tells us in 1 Jn. 3:4 that the very definition of sin is the breaking of the 10 Commandments. Therefore, a worker of iniquity is someone who sins openly and willingly and spreads that sin behavior among the people, working that leaven into the surrounding dough.
True Christians are not sinners, nor workers of iniquity, as we see clearly above.
Not at all , as there are no sins of ignorance.
James, in James 1:14-15, writes what is required for something to be called a sin..."But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."
How can anyone be ignorant of something that needs a temptation, lust, enticement, and conception ?
I need to grow in grace so I increase my ability to bring the message of freedom to this world.
What I can do now makes my earlier efforts look like child's play.
Your conversion was only the first step in a life in Christ.
Here are two verses by Paul with some of the other effects grace have in the lives of the converted...
1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
2 Corinthians 1:12
For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
By the grace of God we are enabled to "labor more abundantly", and been enabled "to conduct ourselves in this world."
His power is our power!
Our works are His works, and not our own...by the grace of God.
Sin promotes death.
You will always have the ability to sin, but with and by the grace of God, the only Master you will serve with be God.
I hope you realize that you are errantly glorifying sin as a tool of God.
Not having all the chapters of Romans memorized doesn't indicate sinful imperfection in a man.
Not being equipt to face of with the Mormons, doesn't mean one is still a servant of sin.
No, it isn't.
It is your words that accuse, so let's see which sin you are citing in my life.
What is the cut-off line to be a constant-habitual-embracer of sin sinner, and not just a stumbler ?
One sin a day ? Four a day ?
One sin a week ? Six a week "
You present a watered down version of Christianity.
One sin makes a man a sinner.
Adam and Eve got kicked out of Eden for just one sin.
Moses lost out on going into the promised land because of just one sin.
Sin is the evidence of unbelief.
- Hebrews 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. - Hebrews 3:19
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. - Hebrews 4:6
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: - Hebrews 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
This defines Christians..."But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)
It is written..."The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." (Psalm 5:5)
And..."Now we know that God heareth not sinners:..." (John 9:31)
And..."For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil." (1 Peter 3:12)
All the greats of the OT never had the opportunity to be reborn of the Spirit, so couldn't accomplish what we in the NT can with perfect obedience to God.
Sinners deny the truth that rebirth is from/of the seed of God.
Seed that cannot bear lairs, adulterers, thieves, or murderers.
Hey All,
I am not playing a game F345T. People's souls are at stake. What if someone comes to this forum, looking for answers. What answer do they get if they just read your texts? They will wrongfully get the impression that God does not hear or speak to sinners.
John 15:26-27 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
John 16:7-10 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
God the Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus.
He reproves the world of sin.
Reprove means to convince of a fault, or to blame of a fault.
If God doesn't speak to sinners, then who called us to salvation? God had to make the first move. He had to give us ears that were capable of hearing His voice.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
God doesn't hear sinners, or the healed blind man in John 9:31 wouldn't have said so.
The unrepentant won't get the gift reserved for the repentant.
He calls those who want to quit offending God and man.
The repentant.
The call is available to all men.
The repentant answer it.
Hey All,
Actually 2 greats got as close as anybody could. Nobody in the New Testament has accomplished such a feat.
Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
The greats obtained righteousness the same way we did. They believed in the coming Messiah and God counted to them as righteousness. There is a place that Luke 15 tells about called Abraham's Bosom. It is the place where those in OT times went after death if they were believers.
Nobody has perfect obedience. If the apostles could not achieve this, then I know we cannot either. I will follow their examples of how to live. Anybody who does is guaranteed a spot in heaven.
How do I know this?
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
The 12 apostles made it. Follow Jesus, and the examples of the 12 apostles. We will not go wrong.
Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
Let's try it this way . I am trying to say ANYTHING about your first post of this thread . What I want to talk about is one verse you are using . There Is a context the verse comes out of that is very important to understanding the verse .
Here is the verse .
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
When a sinner asks for salvation from their sins God hears them , otherwise how would you become a Christian !
Questions for you .
1. Who is speaking the words in verse John 9:31 ?
2 . What event happened to the one speaking in John 9:31 ?
3 . Who is the one speaking , speaking to in John 9:31 ?
Here is the verse .
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
When a sinner asks for salvation from their sins God hears them , otherwise how would you become a Christian !
Questions for you .
1. Who is speaking the words in verse John 9:31 ?
2 . What event happened to the one speaking in John 9:31 ?
3 . Who is the one speaking , speaking to in John 9:31 ?
As a YE creationist also, yes.
But a wrongdoer is a wrongdoer.
Yes, they are. What I said is consistent with what Paul says there. You are beginning with the assumption that Christians can't sin and then concluding the same. You're begging the question.
John the Apostle.
You just called John a liar. Why? Again, you're beginning with the assumption that believers can't sin and then using that to conclude that believers can't sin. You're begging the question.
But you're still ignoring the context which shows that it doesn't mean what you think it means. Commands for believers to be holy and to avoid sin are meaningless if believers can't sin. What Paul says is consistent with what John says.
Neither of those ideas are taught anywhere in Scripture. Paul says believers continue to struggle with sin (Rom 6 and7) and John says believers continue to struggle with sin (1 John).
No, I am not hoping to justify sin. That is a purposeful misrepresentation of my position. Don't do it again.
No, they won't, since mine are based on what Scripture states.
I never said I didn't. Again, don't misrepresent my position.
You're again presuming and begging the question. The letter was written to the believers in the church in Rome. It's instructions for believers.
No, that is clearly not what Paul is saying. These are believers he is writing to. It's hard to believe the lengths you stretch things just to avoid the plain reading of a text.
Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. (ESV)
Paul is telling those at the church in Rome to "now present your members as slaves to righteousness," "just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity." It can only be in reference to believers, which means it is their flesh that is weak. Paul is encouraging them to stop sinning--to fight against sin--and to do that which leads to sanctification.
It was God's plan to send Jesus to die for our sins and reconcile us to himself. But, since according to deism, God doesn't interfere in human affairs, Jesus was just your average first century wanna be Messiah who died for nothing. From your perspective, Jesus's death was completely devoid of the work of God and therefore meaningless, correct?
It would also mean a denial of much of Scripture. Jesus told his disciples how to pray, more than once, told them to "pray for those who persecute" them, told them to "pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers," told them to pray so that they "may not enter into temptation," etc. He also prayed often himself. So what you're saying goes against what Jesus says. Why?
The whole NT is full of prayer and commands to pray. Why do you dismiss so much of the NT?
I already answered that hawkman in post #58.
What is your point? Please get to it.
Is there some possibility that you are the blind man? Seeing as how you've apparently not seen any of the many other verses that I've posted?
How bout this: how bout we wave this John 9:31 verse from the record and you now address alllll the other verses that I've posted to support the OP.
Yes?
Just because the Holy Spirit calls you does not means you stop sinning right at that moment , in fact you can ignore the conviction of the Holy Spirit , you still have to heed the call and confess you are a sinner and take Jesus for your savior ! You are a sinner until the point of being born again .
Ok , good you did get the point . That was all I was seeking
.
Luk 18:10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’
Luk 18:13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” (ESV)
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’
Luk 18:13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” (ESV)
Unfortunately it was dismissed for the wrong reason. It certainly does not support the idea that God doesn’t hear sinners, as you know.Ok , good you did get the point . That was all I was seeking
You asked how Christians get saved if God doesn't hear "sinners". I covered that very thoroughly in post #58.
You are playing word games just like a number of the others. I've been around these forums for a very long time and I know exactly what that means and this is not the first moment that I've realized what's going on here. I just play along because 'some' who read along will still learn the Truth.
You still admit that a Christian is not a "sinner" after being saved or born again - just exactly as I have repeatedly proven with the many Scriptures I have presented in this thread.
If you say so.Ok , good you did get the point . That was all I was seeking
John 9:31 still states very clearly that "God heareth not sinners: ...". If that's your point, I think I got it when I posted this thread.
You should know that by using that verse without understanding the context, you’re agreeing with the Pharisees that Jesus is a sinner. Just thought I should point that out.